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SJB

Onkyo has reached output limit

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Thanks guys for your further thoughts.

Last night I did some more testing and yes Paul, I think simply wanting more volume is not an accurate description on my problem.

I feel I don’t really get proper definition of the music unless it is set at a high volume. Even playing commercial music DVDs thru just stereo (ie. just the Wizards) via Dolby Digital, I need the volume set at least 60 to 65 out of a max of 75. Any higher than that it then starts to distort. Hope that makes sense...

I agree that upgrading my centre speaker & sub would be worthwhile, but given that I rarely watch “Hollywood†action movies, I suspect my initial move should be just to upgrade the amp. I’m thinking of going with the $699 NAD which hopefully will give me that better definition I’m after. If volume is still an issue after that then at least I could then add a decent power amp.

Late breaking question: Just re-checking the NAD T748 specs and it states “minimum speaker impedance 8 ohms†& I think my Wizards are 6 ohm. Is this an issue?

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6ohm impedance not an issue. It's more of a cautioning to be carefull with under 8 ohm speakers and that the nad doesn't have unlimited reserves. As with any amp be carefull regards volume. I keep reading how your cranking amps within inch of their lives and really that's just playing with trouble written all over it.

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I hate to keep doing this in the power amp threads. Ive got a Rotel RB 1080 for $700. Cheap easy option, plenty of power, great quality, trigger on so you wont even notice it as an extra component, just turns on when you turn your AVR on

Could be a great way to get something extra out of the Wizards

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That or a 5 channel 1075 or same money I pointed to earlier would be a good option I too think would care of amp side and would work with existing avr. But the OP wants a one box solution :)

Edited by :) al

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Hi SJB , are all your speakers set to 'small' ?

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[quote name=:) al' timestamp='1348024754' post='765274]

That or a 5 channel 1075 or same money I pointed to earlier would be a good option I too think would care of amp side and would work with existing avr. But the OP wants a one box solution :)

My preference is the 1 box but not opposed to adding a power amp such as 1075, however my Onkyo doesn't have pre-outs.

As I said earlier "I’m thinking of going with the $699 NAD which hopefully will give me that better definition I’m after. If volume is still an issue after that then at least I could then add a decent power amp." Although reading reviews of the 1075, it sounds like that would definitely give me the "definition" I'm after...

Ozcall - my fronts & centre are set to large, rears set to small.

Cheers

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I definitely think the power amp will help, pity the onk has no pre outs.

I wouldn't think your centre should be set to large. Given rolls off at 100hz & low power handling it's back sticker indicates. :)

Speakers is where rubber hits the road. But need the amp behind to drive em !

Also unsure how much support the sub will help here either

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IME your problem is two fold.

1) Speakers not efficient enough or too small for the size of the room and the levels you want.

2) Onkyo are THE worst brand of HT amp for fudging their figures and unless you know the difference between the various ratings methods, it's easy to get caught out.

You will get all the volume you need out of the Onkyo however with the right speakers.

Extra power amps don't always help a lot if the speakers are too small and inefficient.

Paul Spencer has already explained a bit and pointed out a good make with high sensitivity.

Personally, I'd keep the amp, sell off all your speakers and start again with a high quality, high sensitivity pair of floor standers.

You'll get a BIG surprise how good movies can sound in stereo, through something like the VAF's.

Then just add on as & when you can afford, eventually you'll have a kick arse system.

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[quote name=:) al' timestamp='1348033592' post='765337]

I definitely think the power amp will help, pity the onk has no pre outs.

I wouldn't think your centre should be set to large. Given rolls off at 100hz & low power handling it's back sticker indicates. :)

Speakers is where rubber hits the road. But need the amp behind to drive em !

Also unsure how much support the sub will help here either

Thanks Al.

BTW - just came across the Cambridge Audio Azur 551R. Yes more expensive than the NAD T748, but seems to have more grunt so possibly eliminates need for separate power amp.

These 2 amps would be comparable quality-wise wouldn’t they?

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Thanks Al.

BTW - just came across the Cambridge Audio Azur 551R. Yes more expensive than the NAD T748, but seems to have more grunt so possibly eliminates need for separate power amp.

These 2 amps would be comparable quality-wise wouldn’t they?

sjb the cambridge is an excellent option and would be my no 1 suggestion for anyone looking for a budget amp and can spend a bit more than the nad

http://www.carltonau...=node/view/1599

like the nad very honestly specd. with a good quality power stage. in fit and finish you'll find the cambridge a step up.

as to need for separate power amp. in my opinion if you partnered the cambridge with a good sub to take a lot of load off the need for an external power amp would for most people and typical speakers not be a necessity.

thats not to say no gains with an decent externa power amp though. I know with my situation I ran a richter setup(richter unicorn and harlequinns for front stage, hydra surrounds, thor sub) for probably a decade with grunty $2k harman kardon avrs and even though the harmans had a very decent power stage, the external power amp added in detail, clarity, soundstage and dynamic range. its real. I know many who have added external power amps for gains they bring. thats not to say you cant have a pretty satisfying system though based around an avr, I have had myself for lot of years as do many. my richter setup is still going strong. now at my parents placed with a denon 3808 avr doing a pretty fine job with them :)

ps somewhere along the line dont forget about the centre speaker. you might be suprised with the massive difference upgrading that brings :)

Edited by :) al

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Ozcall - my fronts & centre are set to large, rears set to small.

Cheers

SJB

if your fronts and centre are set to large, then they are also processing the LFE signal as well as the powered sub-woofer. So, your Onkyo is doing a lot more work than it needs to.

I strongly suggest you reset the left, centre and right speakers to small, let the sub-woofer handle that load, and you will possibly find that your amplifier copes okay and the sound clarity improves.

Benje

Edited by Benje

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Well its been a few weeks now & I thought I'd provide an update...

I decided to grab a CA 551R amp & I must say its 1 hell of an improvement. Its like the Richters have come to life, although its shown that one of the tweeters is damaged so need to replace.

I've also upgraded my phono side (new cartridge & CA phono amp) & scored myself a 2nd hand Richter Unicorn centre.

Very happy with the results thou still keeping an eye out for a decent 2nd hand power amp.

Many thanks to all that gave their thoughts & advice, especially Al.

Cheers

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Good to hear it worked out for you, Maybe the Onkyo was dieing because the Cambridge amp you grabbed isn't that much more powerful.

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Well its been a few weeks now & I thought I'd provide an update...

I decided to grab a CA 551R amp & I must say its 1 hell of an improvement. Its like the Richters have come to life, although its shown that one of the tweeters is damaged so need to replace.

I've also upgraded my phono side (new cartridge & CA phono amp) & scored myself a 2nd hand Richter Unicorn centre.

Very happy with the results thou still keeping an eye out for a decent 2nd hand power amp.

Many thanks to all that gave their thoughts & advice, especially Al.

Cheers

hey sjb am very glad it worked out for you. very pleased you grabbed a second hand unicorn centre and phono stage too. all up can imagine be very pleased :)

Edited by :) al

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[quote name=:) al' timestamp='1347798879' post='764140]

avrs especially from brands like onkyo, pioneer, sony, denon, yamaha therye all pretty bad in severely overstating their output capability. at end of it with a max power consumption of 325w, keeping in mind bulk of that is going to be lost in heat and inneficiency leaves not much to drive a multichannel setup. Well certianly with not a lot of headroom which is whats needed with av setups.

alternatively if wanting to stick to a one box solution, something like this nad t748 at $699 is a bargain piece and will give you both a pre and power upgrade with something a lot more honestly rated,

http://www.carltonau...=node/view/1574

Onkyo like to use JEITA RMS figures, which pumps up wattage x100....they might as well use PMPO....

re the T748, if only that had 2 hdmi outs, that would be deal of the century.

if only.

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[quote name=:) al' timestamp='1351070358' post='784314]

2 hdmi outs is easy, you just add an inexpensive device such as this @ $38.50

http://www.ezyhd-cab...i-splitter.html

Good one, just better if it was in an all in one (yea i'm being a fussy pot, just trying to minimise the snake pit).

But, better if external anyway, seen so many < $1k receivers with faulty hdmi boards due to heat issues etc etc

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Cambridge and Richter Wizard mk1 = big win!!! Match made in heaven. They are damn good speakers, I still love mine to death. The Onkyo must have had a problem I would say. They aren't anywhere near 100w/ch but it still should have driven the Wizards very hard. Onkyo's are a bit like Denon's, phantom watts. You compare something like a 100w/ch NAD to a 100w/ch Denon and it's laughable.

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Cambridge and Richter Wizard mk1 = big win!!! Match made in heaven. They are damn good speakers

Sure is - plus I've just added a Rotel power amp - now I'm very happy with the sound. Although that damaged Wizard tweeter is showing itself a bit more now.

Has Blakey72 (or anyone else) have any suggestions on what other tweeters I could possibly replace them with.

THanks

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i find this amusingly annoying.

The flagship of the Gaymaha Aventage RX-A3010 (which has won numerous awards, and I don't doubt its a great receiver), but how on earth does this unit achieve 150W per channel (and there are 9 channels btw) from a 480W power consumption rating?

Understand sometimes its not about how much power, its about quality not quantity blah blah blah, but you have to be really dumb to think 150W per channel in a 9 channel setup is possible from a 480W power rating.

The Yamaha Australia's website doesnt have an image stating the power consumption, but review websites globally have posted up images, here's one, and another

What's even worse, this is stated:

1,350W = 150W x 9 (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.06% THD, 2ch driven)

Its the Flagship of Yamaha.

I'm sure it does wonders.

But of all the times I have ever come across a Yamaha product, they are by far the worst of the big 4 AVR companies.

ALWAYS

This has always been enough for one potential customer to never, ever, ever, purchase Yamaha audio receiver products.

Ever.

Never in the past, never in the present, never in the future.

Apologies for the rant, but I really dislike heavily overstated and under deliverable products.

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wilco add pioneer, sony, denon and onkyo to that list. the japanese avr makers are all pretty rubbish in that department. who do they think theyre fooling ! its why I find power consumption the real indicator of what they can consume at most rather than their BS power claims !

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Sure is - plus I've just added a Rotel power amp - now I'm very happy with the sound. Although that damaged Wizard tweeter is showing itself a bit more now.

Has Blakey72 (or anyone else) have any suggestions on what other tweeters I could possibly replace them with.

THanks

not sure you'll have much luck on tweeter to replace. have you tried richter themselves ?

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Good to see another happy Cambridge Audio AVR user, i was most surprised when stepping from the denon 1311 to the CA 650R.

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wilco add pioneer, sony, denon and onkyo to that list. the japanese avr makers are all pretty rubbish in that department. who do they think theyre fooling ! its why I find power consumption the real indicator of what they can consume at most rather than their BS power claims !

totally agree big al, Gosh don't even mention Sony!

With Denon and Onkyo, at least they somewhat try (note with sarcasm) to deliver on their claims by providing power consumption ratings higher than 800w for their somewhat more expensive products.

With Yamaha, u pay more for addons but the engine is still the same 490w power rating.

That's like buying a corolla with dsg gearbox and cow seating but has a very normal 1.8L pre 2000 vvti engine.

Yamaha r the worst, ever, ever, ever! ! ! ! !

They make gr8 products, but they should start asking real consumers what they want, rather than making pretty black boxes with 2 knobs!

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[quote name=:) al' timestamp='1352277956' post='792992]

not sure you'll have much luck on tweeter to replace. have you tried richter themselves ?

Finally got onto Richter & they put me onto Speakerbits in Port Melb, so sent it off to them for repair.

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