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BrownMan

Which receiver: Pioneer LX85 - Integra DTR 50.3 - Denon 4311 - Yamaha RX3071

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Hi all, I'm brand new to this. I have finally decided on a projector - Epson TW9000W...That was an exhaustive process!

Now for the receiver.

I had never heard of Integra before yesterday. But I would like some opinions on which way to go from the 4 amps mentioned above. I'll looking to spend around $3,000.

It will used mainly for movies. Sometimes for music.

I don't have the speakers as yet, although a hifi store in Melbourne has put together a package which includes the Integra 50.3, & Bowers & Wilkins CM8 Pack.

Thanks in anticipation!

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You don't mess about in the little leagues do you BrownMan? Those are nice bits of kit as far as recievers go. I have heard Denon and Onkyo (Integra being the top level Onkyo) and at that level they are pretty good. Can't say much about the Yamaha or Pioneer, have no experience with them. I would recommend you have a listen to that Integra package if the hifi place has one set up, without knowing speaker details though it is really hard to recommend one over another. Active or passive sub?

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You don't mess about in the little leagues do you BrownMan? Those are nice bits of kit as far as recievers go. I have heard Denon and Onkyo (Integra being the top level Onkyo) and at that level they are pretty good. Can't say much about the Yamaha or Pioneer, have no experience with them. I would recommend you have a listen to that Integra package if the hifi place has one set up, without knowing speaker details though it is really hard to recommend one over another. Active or passive sub?

Thanks Cafad. I picked up the Denon 4311 today. The jigsaw puzzle is nearly complete now!

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Yeah, it's hard to go wrong with Denon, though I think it would be hard to go wrong with Onkyo or Yamaha at that level either. I had a Pioneer reciever about 8 years ago and while it was good for music when it came to movies it was crap, no guts to it. Although that was in a much lower price range, $800 from memory and that experience would be a few models old by now. I have read many, many positive things about the Denon 4300 series, enjoy mate!

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The 4311 has got even more bells and whistles than their current A1 flagship. It can handle 11.3 channels with the help of 2 external amps. FWIW, I think it benefits greatly from an external amp and it even supports a "preamp" mode which shuts down the noisier power amp modules inside.

Congrats.

I have the older 4810 which is due to be replaced this year with the 4520. Mine didn't handle HDMI 1.4, nor did it handle Audyssey MultiEQ XT32.

The 4311 checks a lot of the boxes of the 4520 and many in AVS are looking to just get that instead of waiting for the 4520

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congrats !

definitely external power amp will take to another level, but as an avr as it is I think will be quite pleased. Its a very gutsy avr. a case of power combined with processing and every feature can think off :)

ps doggie. for those looking for a model up there is the denon avc-hd which had full processing and 3D upgrade

http://www.avland.co...da/avca1hda.asp

http://www.audioproducts.com.au/ProductInfo.aspx?pid=AVCA1HDSP

the grand daddy of denon avrs weighing in at very solid 29 kgs ! :D

Edited by :) al

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I know al but it doesn't do 11 channels. Denon missed an opportunity IMHO. I know its a no brainer upgrade if you already have the earlier A1 but I just wish they'd take the next logical step.

Frankly I am not sure about the 4520 either. I'd rather have balanced connections to match my preamp and power amps

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I know al but it doesn't do 11 channels. Denon missed an opportunity IMHO. I know its a no brainer upgrade if you already have the earlier A1 but I just wish they'd take the next logical step.

Frankly I am not sure about the 4520 either. I'd rather have balanced connections to match my preamp and power amps

I grabbed the opportunity to get the upgrade for my a1 processor dh, no brainer upgrade indeed. If I wanted to I could run heights or wides. but I think 11 channels is all a bit gimmicky since the max channels in source material tops out at 7.1

I have the spare channels on my multichannel power amp. but then am getting pretty decent height and width in the current system. so not bothering. its the xt32 and processing upgrade, plus 3D capability thats real bonus for me. as been reported by other a1 owners its quite an upgrade sonically. definite and clear step up sonically that wasnt expecting so well worth it :)

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I already run 11 channels with separate amplification with the 4810 hence my reluctance to get the A1. I figured if not Denon, maybe Onkyo might be the first to release their flagship 55xx processor with full support for 11 channels, DSX/IIz/Neo:X along with LFC?

I would miss having Denon Link though. But it looks like Denon is dropping the old DL4 for a new DLHD interface anyway

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I cant see denon changing the a1 in a hurry. A1 series they only release every 10 years, going by last two releases. and me am just happy enough 4 years on thrilled that denon upgraded my a1 and it can still run with the pack. and given it does all I want tech wise cant see why wont have it 4 more years from now ! hehe by then no doubt denon be developing their next a1 series and be time to update again :D

personally I dont think onkyo / integra has anything flagsip wise that comes near the flagship a1's but that just my opinion. but yeah if looking true fully balanced designs not too many options out there in pres :)

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Thing is tech refreshes are more frequent these days and as I said earlier, I think Denon dropped the ball on this one. A full 11 channel upgrade would have gotten more new owners as well, and not just upgraders IMHO, which would be a better proposition for the company.

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I've found their tech refresh pretty opportune. infact they stole the march on every other high end maker. so cant grumble. so what they offer in the latest tech capability is pretty astounding especially where update was offered 4 years after release. shows some awesome commitment to the customer base and equipment line. they could have just left the item as it was as they have done with previous series and just brought out a new product 4- 6 years from now. Dont underestimate the existing customer base of this either, its huge ! just have a peep at the owners thread over on avs. Any company forgetting about their existing customer base is not investing in the future.

in anycase its all about quality over quantity for me, in the high end space the A1 series play in youd find nothing more than 7.1 - how many high end pre's and avrs offer true fully balanced designs, upto 3 sub discrete management in various allowable configuration. how many provide fully audyssey support upto pro level. how many provide height or wide speaker support etc etc so I'm pretty pleased what it offers in mix of high end sound with features and capability thats at the fore front.

saying they dropped the ball with a 11 channel upgrade is not really understanding what the piece is about. even a cursory peak inside would appreciate how packed to the gills it is. the descrete fully balanced analog boards for each channel take up a huge amount of space. I for one wouldnt have wanted them to compromise the current performance of the unit in any way ripping them or anything else to make space no thankyou :)

as with anything people will choose from various components in the market place, for some will provide an attraction for others it wont. and they'll pick something else. I for one am glad for the choice we have :)

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Actually I believe the Onkyo 5509 already matched that.

HDMI 1.4 3D

XLR connectivity

XT32

DSX

Neo:X

In fact, I believe the Denon A1 still can't offer the flexibility to switch from DPLIIx 7.1 to 5.1+H+W which the Onkyo has supported since the 5508. The Denon is still stuck in the same functionality as the old 5507 which is 7.1+ H or W

Don't get me wrong. If I had an A1, I would have done the upgrade to. It's a no brainer, like I mentioned.

But Denon seems to have missed a refresh after the Japanese tsunami and I think it's struggling to catch up. It's focusing on lower end models where the volumes are, which is understandable but it does leave the high end market (admittedly lower volumes) open.

For me, the last saving grace Denon has for me is the DenonLink which is something i use for multichannel SACDs and DVDAs. So I am looking forward to how the 4520 stacks up against the replacement to the 5509.

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comparing a onkyo 5509 vs denon a1 nah sorry. I'd be pretty P'ed off if someone came took my denon and replaced with the onkyo there ! that it weighs about half the weight of the denon pre should be little indications where each piece is at.

tsunami or not denon delivered bang on date and what was intended and promised in the upgrade to its a1 line. its actually the lower end models that suffered with the 4312 postponed infact dropped all together.

only time I would use D PL IIx is with thx post processing and it does a wonderfull job on 2.0 DTV broadcast to create a pretty immersive 7.1 - then theres choice of running either audyssey dsx PLIIz or DTS neo:X, which were invented for use with heights / wides. why anyone would want to drop back to a 5.1 mix with high and wides for DLPLIIx 7.1 is beyond me. but each to their own.

the denon will actually has the processing run a 9.3 descrete ch mix if want which I dont think the onkyo would even let you run in anycase. and its not like the onkyo lets you run 11 channels anyhow. its only heights or wides :)

depends if want to get caught up in the bells and whistles race. if I was so caught up in the bells and whistles I would have bought a integra 9.9 or avr instead of the denon all those years ago. and have had replaced it every year with the subsequent integra/onkyo or denon avr that come out every year. buying the denon took me out the upgrade merry go round. one purchase 4 years ago and am still content and quite likely as last 4 years be quite happy for another 4 years hence. I cant see any reason why not. for me its more about the sound :)

but yeah appreciate others be chasing otherwise. in which case yeah plenty others to pick from onkyo, integra, yamaha, sony, pioneer or the lower end denons ... take your pick plenty of choice :)

Edited by :) al

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The 5509 is last year's model. I still don't know what Onkyo has in mind, but if they use the 4520 as a benchmark, perhaps, they'll add full 11 channel support.

And you should hear a full 11 channels setup before you write it off. I agree that for the most part, they don't matter. But I was surprised when I watched Episode 4 how much the height speakers added to the opening scene when the Star Destroyer flew overhead. And in Transformers IMAX forest scene, the wide speakers were used incredibly well as Megatron's voice panned across the front to wide to side surround seamlessly.

Which is why I haven't swapped out my 4810 as yet.

As for weight being a determining factor.. well, I have heard the Onkyo 5509 being used as a preamp and it actually wasn't a downgrade from the A1. Sometimes in hifi, less is more.

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The 5509 is last year's model. I still don't know what Onkyo has in mind, but if they use the 4520 as a benchmark, perhaps, they'll add full 11 channel support.

And you should hear a full 11 channels setup before you write it off. I agree that for the most part, they don't matter. But I was surprised when I watched Episode 4 how much the height speakers added to the opening scene when the Star Destroyer flew overhead. And in Transformers IMAX forest scene, the wide speakers were used incredibly well as Megatron's voice panned across the front to wide to side surround seamlessly.

Which is why I haven't swapped out my 4810 as yet.

~

I have experienced both heights and wides, and in my system I dont feel its necessary. get sufficient width and height and why even though have the capability have not bothered with any additional speakers in the least. as you know no source material comes with height or width info, only 7.1 at the most. so anything added there is just gimmick.

whether worth chasing its a judgement call people will make. for some worth it for others its not.

~

As for weight being a determining factor.. well, I have heard the Onkyo 5509 being used as a preamp and it actually wasn't a downgrade from the A1. Sometimes in hifi, less is more.

less is more as far as not adding gimmick in my books. was my point from the very beginning. Its the engineering packed in the a1's that contributes to their weight. and its all geared for the sound. will pick pick sound over features and specs any day :)

Edited by :) al

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I recently got the Onkyo NR609 for a bargain, cannot complain.

I have 5.1 speaker system so the receiver is a little overkill but apart from that the only thing I think I'am missing is the audyssey higher end room correction, but that too would not make much difference as after calibration, I had to tailor adjust the sound to my taste, thanks to a million different setting on the receiver.

I like what I listen so for and XLR or no XLR does not bother me.

The only thing that might make me upgrade at any stage would be audiophile quality parts to match integrated amp performance, unless that comes along I'am happy to keep my $3000.00 safe :)

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I recently got the Onkyo NR609 for a bargain, cannot complain.

I have 5.1 speaker system so the receiver is a little overkill but apart from that the only thing I think I'am missing is the audyssey higher end room correction, but that too would not make much difference as after calibration, I had to tailor adjust the sound to my taste, thanks to a million different setting on the receiver.

I like what I listen so for and XLR or no XLR does not bother me.

The only thing that might make me upgrade at any stage would be audiophile quality parts to match integrated amp performance, unless that comes along I'am happy to keep my $3000.00 safe :)

kunal the important thing is your happy with the end result which you no doubt are :)

yes there are components with audiophile quality parts but come at a price. getting pure audio quality possible with 2ch gear will always cost a serious amount more to achieve with av gear over multiple channels.

dont know what the rest of yoru system is like. if have a spare $3k probably best invested in a multichannel power amp to take things to next level. or a quality 2ch integrated with ht bypass. could buy a beauty for that and would take quite a bit of load off avr from driving the main channels and plus potentially give pre and power upgrade 2ch upgrade over the avr capable off :)

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I recently got the Onkyo NR609 for a bargain, cannot complain.

I have 5.1 speaker system so the receiver is a little overkill but apart from that the only thing I think I'am missing is the audyssey higher end room correction, but that too would not make much difference as after calibration, I had to tailor adjust the sound to my taste, thanks to a million different setting on the receiver.

I like what I listen so for and XLR or no XLR does not bother me.

The only thing that might make me upgrade at any stage would be audiophile quality parts to match integrated amp performance, unless that comes along I'am happy to keep my $3000.00 safe :)

MultiEQ XT32 is only useful if your room is particularly problematic to room nodes. If the current Audyssey AutoEQ solves that, the extra resolution isn't strictly necessary. IMHO.

I had a lot of fun with a 5.1 setup and actually stopped going to the movies for a long time :)

@al, we know there is no native 9.x or higher material today but I see it as form of upscaling like when we used HDTVs with DVD players. Do DVDs have more than 480 interlaced lines? Yet we use it with displays of 720 and 1080 lines of resolution and with good results. Ditto with a lot of action movies. I have been running 11 channels for 3-4 years now and it's always amazing just how well some material works with the added channels even if they aren't natively encoded.

Edited by DoggieHowser

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MultiEQ XT32 is only useful if your room is particularly problematic to room nodes. If the current Audyssey AutoEQ solves that, the extra resolution isn't strictly necessary. IMHO.

I had a lot of fun with a 5.1 setup and actually stopped going to the movies for a long time :)

~

I found xt32 quite an upgrade actually but it was also coupled with the processor upgrade so hard to say. but I agree wtih eq its very much dependant on the room itself and how much it needs it. for many and I myself ran with just plain xt for quite a few years and very happy with the result :)

~

@al, we know there is no native 9.x or higher material today but I see it as form of upscaling like when we used HDTVs with DVD players. Do DVDs have more than 480 interlaced lines? Yet we use it with displays of 720 and 1080 lines of resolution and with good results. Ditto with a lot of action movies. I have been running 11 channels for 3-4 years now and it's always amazing just how well some material works with the added channels even if they aren't natively encoded.

not convinced dh :P

but yeah as mentioned it will be something some see as necessary others wont. glad your enjoying and find of benefit, not discounting that in the least :)

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Hi

why not go offshore with an Emotiva XPA-5 @ 200watts / channel, at $1200 delivered and link here.

XPA-5_FRONT.jpg?8257

and matching preamp UMC-1 @ $650, info here

UMC-1_FRONT.jpg?8257

JJ

Edited by Janjuc

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IMO I'd be spending 60% of the money on a reasonable 5.1 speaker sub combo then wait and see what is the best deal on AVR's is at the time.

AVR features come and go but a good set of speakers with a punchy/fast sub makes the biggest difference of all.

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On the other hand, Al's A1 has lasted him some 4? or more years and will continue to do so.

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I currently own two Integra's. The DTR 8.8 and a DTR 70.2. They are both very good. The 8.8 had a slight glitch after 6 months but was repaired under warranty without any problems at all.

Be warned that they both run pretty warm, it is normal but you want some good ventilation around the receiver. I have two silent Noctua PC cooling fans behind the 70.2

The 8.8 currently sits on my computer desk and often has the cat laying on it for warmth.

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I would like to know re Emotiva too.

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