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Ozcall

New pc based music system

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I will have a chat with Thorsten and see what he has to say.

Even if your board is set up for a non-I2S input to the TDA1541A chip you can always consdier to just solder the I2S inputs from the DI straight onto the legs of the TDA1541A - just dont forget to test and lift PIN27 if needed to give it +5v so it goes into I2S "two's complement mode".

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Some pics of the control interface:

post-131373-0-44371000-1338538796_thumb. Ipad using Gear4 remote software , bluetooth to Gear 4 infrared blaster: to control the physical components

post-131373-0-57111500-1338538822_thumb. Webgizmo remote for Jriver , wi-fi to mediacentre

post-131373-0-48761100-1338538846_thumb. Webgizmo album view

best remote for any juke program etc if you ahve an iphone or ipad is just to remotely log in using logmein or a similar program , i use it with and ipad using touchjams and its flawless

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Thanks Egosbar.

I am now using Jremote to control the Jriver based media centre, similar to Webgizmo but with a few more features.

I will look into your suggestion to see if it adds anything useful for me .

G

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Even if your board is set up for a non-I2S input to the TDA1541A chip you can always consdier to just solder the I2S inputs from the DI straight onto the legs of the TDA1541A - just dont forget to test and lift PIN27 if needed to give it +5v so it goes into I2S "two's complement mode".

Thanks Nada , I have made up an adaptor using a CS8412 board , without chip and the ribbon cable supplied by Audio-gd.

As you can see in the pic , one lead , Mck is unattached as I am not sure where to connect it :

post-131373-0-90723000-1344235539_thumb.

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The data sheet for TDA1541A has no MCKso I guess its it must be redundant so just tape it out?

I bet this mod is going to sound better then the original.

Hope it works first time.

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Thanks Nada , will give it a try.

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Jriver consider their 64bit Internal Volume to be "perfect".

They believe using it to control volume will surpass all analog pre-amps.

Whether it's better than Foobar's I cannot be certain.

I have been using this method for years without a hitch but I must say I am thinking of moving back to a analogue volume (preamp) I certainly found benefits in using Jriver volume over previous digital volume controls found in a Dac's but my system sound fantastic at high volumes but is losing resolution at lower volumes. If I place my HT receiver as a DAC and analogue preamp it sounds better? Very confused with all of this?

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I have been using this method for years without a hitch but I must say I am thinking of moving back to a analogue volume (preamp) I certainly found benefits in using Jriver volume over previous digital volume controls found in a Dac's but my system sound fantastic at high volumes but is losing resolution at lower volumes. If I place my HT receiver as a DAC and analogue preamp it sounds better? Very confused with all of this?

Using JRiver I generally listen with the digital volume control from -20db to 0db (60% to 100%). I'm yet to detect any loss of resolution in this range.

Are you saying you have an analog preamp in your HT receiver? Most have a digital volume control as far as I'm aware. What's the make and model?

Edited by Dr X

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It may well have better digital volume control, being 64 bit internal.

Foobar had 64bit depth internal volume processing way before JRIver. They just dont make anything of it.

Of course 32bit is more then enough for a 24bit DAC, so JRiver spinning about 64bits is likely all about marketing and creating a certain perception. Judging by how influenced punters are by bigger numbers its been a useful ploy.

Foobar being not for profit is free of that kind of spin and deception.

For many of us Foobar sounds better with greater clarity and transparency then JRiver.

Edited by Nada

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I will to going back to using analogue volume control shortly for safety reasons.

Using internal volume in Jriver I have to set the volume control on the pre to 3 o'clock to get the best range of volume for my circumstances. If I forget to reset the volume b4 I play a cd then I could end up with the drivers in my lap :)

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Foobar had 64bit depth internal volume processing way before JRIver. They just dont make anything of it.

Of course 32bit is more then enough for a 24bit DAC, so JRiver spinning about 64bits is likely all about marketing and creating a certain perception. Judging by how influenced punters are by bigger numbers its been a useful ploy.

Foobar being not for profit is free of that kind of spin and deception.

For many of us Foobar sounds better with greater clarity and transparency then JRiver.

Nada, thanks for setting me straight once again.

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Using JRiver I generally listen with the digital volume control from -20db to 0db (60% to 100%). I'm yet to detect any loss of resolution in this range.

Are you saying you have an analog preamp in your HT receiver? Most have a digital volume control as far as I'm aware. What's the make and model?

Like you I have been using J river volume without a preamp I run the PC directly to the Dac and than output to my power amp. It is very clear and sounds fantastic do not get me wrong but I have been feeling that perhaps its too clinical and cold. Partly I have considered a NOS tube DAC rather than the Sabre DAC in the Peachtree but this is only since reading on this forum from peoples experience, but than I also have the feeling that I perhaps need a analogue preamp in the system, rather than running J river as the volume control. Everyone talks about losing bits etc and I start thinking that perhaps there is more to gain rather than another DAC. (i have been through about 5 already)

I took my marantz NR1402 Receiver from my lounge which i was surprised had preamp outputs took out my peachtree DAC and connected optical to Marantz and preamp out to my power amp - I am rather surprised I never tried this before I assumed that my Marantz never had preamp outputs - but I am also assuming the volume is analogue?? will look into this.

the marantz sounds very detailed (surprisingly) it has a 24/192khz dac inside its appears to have a better midrange something that I have been missing for awhile and something I never achieved with previous DAC. Its confused me now which direction to take. How could a $600 receiver used as a DAC and preamp sound this good. This tells me that running a DAC without a preamp is the issue? Nothing wrong with my amplifier or J river PC setup?

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Hey cada, I'd just about eat my right arm if your Marantz NR1402 did not have a digital volume control instead of analog one.

If you think JRiver is clinical and cold well I'd kinda agree with you, but that's exactly how I like it and what I want!

It's simply a transparent volume control as long as you don't attenuate too far which I don't, don't come anywhere near it.

I wonder if your Marantz NR1402 is doing any DSP to the digital signal (on top of volume control)?

If it does then perhaps it does something that's pleasing to your ears.

Cheers.

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Hey cada, I'd just about eat my right arm if your Marantz NR1402 did not have a digital volume control instead of analog one.

If you think JRiver is clinical and cold well I'd kinda agree with you, but that's exactly how I like it and what I want!

It's simply a transparent volume control as long as you don't attenuate too far which I don't, don't come anywhere near it.

I wonder if your Marantz NR1402 is doing any DSP to the digital signal (on top of volume control)?

If it does then perhaps it does something that's pleasing to your ears.

Cheers.

You certain? Is this how most AV receivers are Digital Volume? Is it because its a less expensive method of designing it? as far as I can tell I have pure direct setting on so no dsp influence but who know what this thing is doing to my signal. It has a lot of body to the sound that was missing with j river and a dac? Classical music has always struggled in my system Jazz sounding awesome.

I need to return the marantz to the other room before the kids start screaming but I not sure where to go next.

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I'm not certain cada, but I'd be really surprised if it didn't.

Yes most AV receivers have digital volume control as far as I know.

I remember reading some more expensive makes (Arcam for example) have a true analog volume control. I'm not saying this is necessarily a bonus!

I wish all manufacturers (or even some of them) would clearly state what they come with.

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I will to going back to using analogue volume control shortly for safety reasons.

Using internal volume in Jriver I have to set the volume control on the pre to 3 o'clock to get the best range of volume for my circumstances. If I forget to reset the volume b4 I play a cd then I could end up with the drivers in my lap :)

good thinking there Oz to protect your speakers with the preamp

all it takes for your tweeters to be ruined is the DAC to loose lock and put out white noise at full volume

for most of us its just a question of time before that happens - even with a preamp at moderate volume its an unforgettable experience

my dog took months to recover

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I'm not certain cada, but I'd be really surprised if it didn't.

Yes most AV receivers have digital volume control as far as I know.

I remember reading some more expensive makes (Arcam for example) have a true analog volume control. I'm not saying this is necessarily a bonus!

I wish all manufacturers (or even some of them) would clearly state what they come with.

You're not wrong looks like most av receiver manufacturers hide all the important specification. I have been listening to the AV receiver and I have gone back to my peachtree Dac its just clearer and more defined.

A preamp is my next project build or buy one.

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good thinking there Oz to protect your speakers with the preamp

all it takes for your tweeters to be ruined is the DAC to loose lock and put out white noise at full volume

for most of us its just a question of time before that happens - even with a preamp at moderate volume its an unforgettable experience

my dog took months to recover

Correct - I have been lucky all these years, together with the fact that I leave my belcanto amplifier on all the time I would hate to have a power failure, my dac to go belly up and white noise to kill my speakers. I have often wondered if it all happened while at work maximum volume while i am not around to pull the plug.

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You certain? Is this how most AV receivers are Digital Volume? Is it because its a less expensive method of designing it? as far as I can tell I have pure direct setting on so no dsp influence but who know what this thing is doing to my signal. It has a lot of body to the sound that was missing with j river and a dac? Classical music has always struggled in my system Jazz sounding awesome.

I need to return the marantz to the other room before the kids start screaming but I not sure where to go next.

Marantz have an audiophile pedigree and know how to design amazingly good AV receivers with their lovely house sound that has a warm midrange.

They can do analogue volume control using a chip with discreet resistors to give step wise digital like adjustments.

The Sabre chip can often sound thin unless it has a really good analogue output stage - tubes in the output stage are often favoured to fatten the sound up. The Peachtree output might just not put out a nice signal for your system? Digital volume control might not be the culprit? You might want to try Foobar while your experimenting as many find it gives a much clearer output compared to JRiver.

While youve got the Marantz you might want to try it as a power amp as well. If you have passive speakers with twin terminals you can use the Marantz to bi-amp - it can sound exceptional good using DSP to act as a basic active crossover.

If you want to get a really good sound from a DAC make sure its got a multi-bit chip in it. It would be great if local guys could lend you some gear to try in your system?

Hope that helps a bit.

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Marantz have an audiophile pedigree and know how to design amazingly good AV receivers with their lovely house sound that has a warm midrange.

They can do analogue volume control using a chip with discreet resistors to give step wise digital like adjustments.

The Sabre chip can often sound thin unless it has a really good analogue output stage - tubes in the output stage are often favoured to fatten the sound up. The Peachtree output might just not put out a nice signal for your system? Digital volume control might not be the culprit? You might want to try Foobar while your experimenting as many find it gives a much clearer output compared to JRiver.

While youve got the Marantz you might want to try it as a power amp as well. If you have passive speakers with twin terminals you can use the Marantz to bi-amp - it can sound exceptional good using DSP to act as a basic active crossover.

If you want to get a really good sound from a DAC make sure its got a multi-bit chip in it. It would be great if local guys could lend you some gear to try in your system?

Hope that helps a bit.

Thanks Nada

My speakers have only single terminals due to simplified crossover design. (Xavian Giulletta's) They are not all that easy to drive and love to have the power. The marantz amp doesn't drive them too well and I cannot bi amp due to my speaker limitations. After owning a few integrated amplifiers in my time a chose the class D design from belcanto and am addicted to its ability to really control the speaker with loads of unlimited power. You are correct the difference between the Marantz as a Dac and peachtree is stark and not necessarily a analogue vs digital volume issue. So I may research a tube preamp or tube dac and preamp back to the drawing board.

The foobar thing despite possibly having better sound is not going to work for me. I like the ability of j river with the Android and IR mce remote integration. I have invested far too much time in J river. i also recently upgraded to the latest and final version of 17 the last three digits being 182 - it is the fastest and most stable version I have owned sounds good.

The advantages of no preamp and having one remote is really a good feature if I use a preamp I am back to two remotes.

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Today I tried Foobar using Asio and could hear no audbile improvement.

But the end user experience between the two is like chalk and cheese. So far Foobar reminds me of when I used Winamp in the 90's.

Is it actually possible to use to use an IR remote to control and/or Andriod application to control Foobar like JRiver?

By the way I'm not dissing Foobar, it's a great free product but JRiver is so much more for a tiny fee. I do all my movie watching through it

Yes Cada the 182 final version 17 seems pretty nice and bug free. I recently purchased a version 18 upgrade licence for when it's released in the future for $18.98US which is absolutely peanuts in the scheme of things. I believe if you upgraded to 17 recently you'll probably get version 18 free. If not you have until August 15 I believe to upgrade to version 18 at the cheapest price, after then it will cost a bit more.

Damn I sound like a salesman but I don't care :) It's not perfect but for what you pay it's a damn fine product.

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Thanks Nada

My speakers have only single terminals due to simplified crossover design. (Xavian Giulletta's) They are not all that easy to drive and love to have the power. The marantz amp doesn't drive them too well and I cannot bi amp due to my speaker limitations. After owning a few integrated amplifiers in my time a chose the class D design from belcanto and am addicted to its ability to really control the speaker with loads of unlimited power. You are correct the difference between the Marantz as a Dac and peachtree is stark and not necessarily a analogue vs digital volume issue. So I may research a tube preamp or tube dac and preamp back to the drawing board.

The foobar thing despite possibly having better sound is not going to work for me. I like the ability of j river with the Android and IR mce remote integration. I have invested far too much time in J river. i also recently upgraded to the latest and final version of 17 the last three digits being 182 - it is the fastest and most stable version I have owned sounds good.

The advantages of no preamp and having one remote is really a good feature if I use a preamp I am back to two remotes.

You might like to read reviews on the Monarchy 24 DAC model with the PCM1704 chip. It has a tube output and volume control. It has a really nice sound for its price on sale factory direct and even more so second hand. It might well have synergy with the D class amps but watch for impedance matching.

Monarchy Audio NM24 http://www.monarchya..._Main_Frame.htm

This would be worth saving up for

Audio GD Reference 10.2 http://www.audio-gd....ce10/RE10EN.htm

as it would end the DAC +/- preamp upgraditis.

You can still just use the JRiver remote. Just adjust the analogue volume on the Monarchy so

a. you wont damage your speakers is the DAC looses lock and blasts out full level white noise

b you can use the digital volume control in its sweet zone which might be perhaps for you about 18dB of attenuation.

Might be the best of both worlds?

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This would be worth saving up for

Audio GD Reference 10.2 http://www.audio-gd....ce10/RE10EN.htm

as it would end the DAC +/- preamp upgraditis.

Oh dear kingwa what are you doing to the 1704 dac chips?relays in the volume control are a big no no unless you don't hear what damage they do music

"Four channel 99 steps digitally controlled relay-based volume control to avoid channel imbalance and improve sound quality." Relays???? makes me wonder what you using as a R&D system to come up with a conclusion like that.......

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Oh dear kingwa what are you doing to the 1704 dac chips?relays in the volume control are a big no no unless you don't hear what damage they do music

"Four channel 99 steps digitally controlled relay-based volume control to avoid channel imbalance and improve sound quality." Relays???? makes me wonder what you using as a R&D system to come up with a conclusion like that.......

OK K12,

what are you using as volume control?????? :confused: :confused: :confused:

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Oh dear kingwa what are you doing to the 1704 dac chips?relays in the volume control are a big no no unless you don't hear what damage they do music

"Four channel 99 steps digitally controlled relay-based volume control to avoid channel imbalance and improve sound quality." Relays???? makes me wonder what you using as a R&D system to come up with a conclusion like that.......

I'm assuming that you've heard some poor implementations upon which you're basing your opinion Mario (rather than simply hypothesising), and if so, it's a big call to lump all relay-based volume control setups in the one basket. There are many excellent implementations of relay-based volume control. I had the pleasure of hearing one particular integrated amp recently which sounded simply superb, and the system upon which the amp was demoed is more than capable of showing up issues.

Which exact relay-based amps or sources have you heard Mario, and what sonic issues do you perceive them to have?

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