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Integrated Amps: An Addicts Guide.


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Wow, can't believe I missed this thread. Some very intersting reading, and some great information for any in the market for integrated amps.

I'm glad you found the Burson such a great amp, even though it does seem to have been superseded twowards the end. I have had my Burson PI-160 for a few years now. It sits in my study system, but gets used quite regulalrly. I sometimes walk into the room and can't quite believe how good this system sounds compared to my main system - not quite there, but damn good for something that cost much less. I put a lot of that down to the synergy between the Burson amp, my ML-1 PlusRs, and the Transporter. I think you could do much, much worse than give Burson gear a try,

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Thanks Cafad for this great thread. I really enjoy reading about the 2CH amps and your jorney. I might be looking for one shortly so now have a little background into many of them.

No worries Rocky, a journey is much better when you take it with friends. I don't have any "audio" friends locally so I'm sharing via SNA. If you are going to be looking for an amp I will be having a fire sale in the near future, probably early August, so watch the FS section, a whole pile of integrateds will show up at some stage. Or you could ask, I still have most of the amps I have trialed, and all of the recent ones.

Wow, can't believe I missed this thread. Some very intersting reading, and some great information for any in the market for integrated amps.

I'm glad you found the Burson such a great amp, even though it does seem to have been superseded twowards the end. I have had my Burson PI-160 for a few years now. It sits in my study system, but gets used quite regulalrly. I sometimes walk into the room and can't quite believe how good this system sounds compared to my main system - not quite there, but damn good for something that cost much less. I put a lot of that down to the synergy between the Burson amp, my ML-1 PlusRs, and the Transporter. I think you could do much, much worse than give Burson gear a try,

I'm still a fan of Burson Markm, and I think their PI-160 is the pick of the bunch. I actually prefer their integrated amp to the sound of their pre through a very expensive power amp (I have yet to hear their power amp however). After my latest efforts I am going to start shifting (and marking the concrete) the speakers around to see if I can find the sweet spot for any other amps. First though I plan on seriously exercising the Sonneteer.

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The Myryad Z142 arrived yesterday and of course I couldn't help myself, I had to plug it in and have a pre-burn in listen. This little amp has a lot of potential! It is nice and fluid and fast in the midrange with more bass down low than the Sonneteer and that bass is sharp, fast and clear. Channel separation is extremely good, I swear I heard some recording inconsistencies between the channels on Hearts Jupiters Darling, they are probably meant to be there (hard to be sure of course) but they were so easy to notice on the Myryad. It is rated at 50 watts but at 0.1%THD, so I am calling it a 40 watt amp since I use 0.05% THD as a point of reference for comparison (just a personal thing, we all have our little personal rules).

If it improves with run in I can see this being a competitor for the number one spot in my recently rearranged room. This is the sort of little gem I have been looking for.

Edited by Cafad
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I had early Burson P 100 - it was very very good amp very powerful and sweet. Excellent value.

Did you have the chance to compare it to any other amps umcha? I'd be interested to know how the Burson models evolved. You said you had one, past tense, what was it replaced with? An upgrade I assume!

Sorry for the twenty questions treatment, I'm just seeking more opinions that aren't my own.

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Did you have the chance to compare it to any other amps umcha? I'd be interested to know how the Burson models evolved. You said you had one, past tense, what was it replaced with? An upgrade I assume!

Sorry for the twenty questions treatment, I'm just seeking more opinions that aren't my own.

No problem at all - I had the P 100 back in...2007 or 8. I stupidly sent it back to Burson at end of trial rather than keep it. I can't remember what I replaced with - it would have been a tube amp as I love tubes and have mostly owned them since then. I remember that around that time I experimented with high efficiency drivers and low output SET's. So something with no grunt.

I know Kramer Ed. loves the P 10 Pre: rates it highly.

I recall being very impressed with it - it drove 85 db bookshelf speakers very easily. Great control and authority and sweet highs.

I certainly would not hestitate to buy a Burson P 160 if I wanted a SS. Sweet amp for sure.

Edited by umCha
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Well I do have some spare shelf space again... I'll add the Rega to my list.

All right, I can't figure out how to add these pics to my attachment list without them showing up in a post so here they are. I am sending a pic of them to a fellow who is interested in buying one so I must apologise to everyone else for my multimedia inadequacies (it's enough to make you feel old when you can't get the internet to do what you want it to!).

post-130663-0-16676800-1342518859_thumb.post-130663-0-59490300-1342518869_thumb.post-130663-0-62217400-1342518849_thumb.

Edited by Cafad
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I've just spent a very enjoyable couple of hours listening to the Myryad and performing a direct comparo with the Sonneteer Campion. Both are lowish wattage amps, both are nice and fast and energetic and both have a very contagious foot tapping effect on rythmic music. The Sonneteer has a sort of blunting of the frequencies which I think has to do with the traditional english sound and I can see how some people may describe it as warmish, I would describe it a different way (which I will get to shortly). The Myryad has greater clarity and a deeper, tighter grip on bass. In a test of electronica the Myryad would emerge the winner, in a test of rythym guitar (spanish style guitar for instance) it would be neck and neck with the Sonneteer having the edge. In a test of Joe Satriani's Surfing With The Alien album it was close. I will hand the win to the Myryad but the Sonneteer kept up the pressure and did not go quietly. Switching to Dire Straits and the choice is easier to make, Myryad in a clear win.

Quite often they sound almost identical but then the drums show up and the Myryad portrays the depth better. The Myryad has a nice open sound with just a little air and awesome clarity, excellent control and yet still fun to listen to. The Sonneteer has a veil over the sound, it is a very nice veil and it lets almost all of the sound through but it is still there and almost all is not quite enough.

To sumarise this Myryad Z142 is exactly what I was looking for when I started this little obsession of mine. It is an integrated amp that sounds amazingly good, is available at a great price and is easly able to compete with others at 2 and 3 times the price being asked by Trevor Lees at the moment. Tomorrow evening I am going to repeat the exercise between the Myryad and the Burson, just to make sure because right now if someone asked me what integrated they should buy having a budget of $1500 I would say buy the Myryad and a whole heap of music.

Word is that the Myryad Z series cd player is quite a good unit for the money as well, but I will have to leave that to another SNA'er to evaluate.

I should mention to that I am in no way associated with Trevor Lees, I have spoken to him a couple of times over the phone and found him to be "a little odd" though he was fairly easy to deal with. I have read a few write ups about people having issues with his personality and after having spoken to him I can see how he could rub someone the wrong way, but since I wanted to buy something and he wanted to sell it, we got on just fine.

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If you want a gloriously grin inducing, can't walk away from it, why didn't I buy this sooner, integrated check out the new old Luxman integrated like the L550A II class A or the LV 505 U . They make music an organic,coherent event with all attendant emotions not only intact, but also melded into your soul.

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Oh I want to hear a Luxman, I would very much like to experience that grin you speak of, but they come up for sale pretty rarely 2nd hand, and the new ones are definately in the high end of the integrated price range. Even on ebay the new ones are over $5k. And if one shows up at the right price I think I'll be racing every man and his dog to get it.

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The Burson is a very good amp, I feel I should restate that before I get into the nitty gritty. It was my favourite amp for quite a while and that gives it a special place in my audio memories. I stand by my earlier opinions, every one of them, even though it may sound like I change my mind later in this post.

I pulled out all the stops on the Burson vs Myryad, warmed the amps up for 2 hours beforehand (and the cd player) and played each song twice with amp and lead swapping in between. Compared to the Myryad the Burson sounds slow and dull. I have described the Burson as airy and crisp previously but the Myryad is much more crisp, clear and fast, above all fast! It is so energetic, the music just dances out of it, whereas the Burson sounds like someone who is being forced out of bed at 7am after a hard nights drinking. After 6 different songs on 6 different discs I had developed this opinion, and I don't like the fact that I have this opinion at all but it is there and there is a reason for it.

The Yamaha AS1000 beat out the Burson previously (by a fair amount, but not by a huge amount) so, in an effort to back up this result I plugged it in to warm up, had dinner and a shower (say 45 mins) and went back to repeat the process. The Yamaha put up more of a fight, it is slightly faster and clearer than the Burson and it sounds much more powerful than the Myryad but still slow and and murky, the Myryad wins without the need for a photo finish. Obviously if you use 86db, 3.5Ohm speakers then this amp is not for you, but if you have, say, 89db, 6Ohm or higher nominal speakers then this little amp will sound utterly awesome.

I am going to send this amp off for a second opinion, just to make sure I am not going insane. Until then I will carry on as usual (who needs denial when acceptance and procrastination is just as effective).

Edited by Cafad
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Hi bwhitesox, glad you like the thread mate. Do you have any details on the dynaudios, model number or efficiency and impedence values? Provided the Myryad is not being asked to drive great power hungry beasts it should be fine.

Cheers!

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Obviously I don't know what Dynaudio speakers they may be, but as a very good rule of thumb, all Dyns tend to need ample supplies of current and watts......in that order.

Impedence will also vary, but factor in an amplifier that has no problem with 3-4 ohm loads most of the time.

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Obviously I don't know what Dynaudio speakers they may be, but as a very good rule of thumb, all Dyns tend to need ample supplies of current and watts......in that order.

Impedence will also vary, but factor in an amplifier that has no problem with 3-4 ohm loads most of the time.

Gotya thanks.

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Well I decided that I liked the Myryad Z142 amp so much that I would take a punt on the Z114 cd player as well. It seems to have opamps in the output stage (not usually considered a good thing but I have made them work quite well in a player prior to this one) that are easily swappable and I have a pair of "doubled up" OPA627's just waiting for a job to do. I'm hoping that this combo will be good enough for me to be happy recomending it to future SNA'ers who want a good system for a budget price. Fingers crossed! Meanwhile the Z142 becomes my duty amp, until I send it off for a second opinion.

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Better than the Burson and the As-1000- interesting.

The one other review I found on the web said the cd player was below the amp in performance 4 star while the amp 5 star at the price.

Cafad what class amp is it - Myryad's DC5 circuit configuration - D?

Edited by DAMO 1147
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Class AB Damo, using 2 transistors per channel, toshiba SA1943/5200 pairs. And to make it even more interesting those are the same transistors as used in the Burson, the Consonance C1 and another one of the amps in my test list (can't remember which one, I went through a stage of downloading the specs for the transistors in every amp I could pull the top off and comparing them but I didn't keep any notes).

One very popular piece of circuitry, this toshy.

Edit:

There is a very good german review ( I love google translate!) which puts the Myryad across a test bed and claims 76 watts into 4 ohms so it just might be happy with the dynaudios. I tried to save it but for some reason I just got the web page background, again with the feeling old.

Edited by Cafad
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I tried the Cyrus 8A last night. I am afraid I don't like its sound at all.

The Cyrus does everything right but it has a house sound that is like Marantz only moreso, that upper mid warmth that is so loved by Marantz owners (and not loved by others, myself included) is prominent right from the start. It sounds nice and strong with decent clarity and bass, and the vocals come through very strongly and clearly, but I just could not listen to it long enough to get a really good feel for its positive aspects when that one big negative one was making my skin crawl.

Now that may sound like a bit of a scathing comment but that is just how subjective the listening experience can be, my ears dislike that style of sound so I hate it, some others will like it. Probably more than "some" others since Cyrus has won all sorts of awards. The design is cool, with great upgradability options, but for me it is all about the sound and this sound is for others.

So what I am trying to say is, I don't like it, even though it is a very well respected model by a well respected company.

This one experience really slams home the need to "try before you buy" if you don't want to risk your money.

Oddly enough, I dislike the Marantz sound, and I dislike the Cyrus sound which is warmer, but the Cambridge 840A I quite like and it is far warmer than the Marantz or the Cyrus. The Cambridge is a sort of warm and fuzzy sound, almost cuddly in the way it makes you feel good. The Cyrus is warm and suffocating, the warmth is not as obvious but harder in presentation, it resonates in my skull and makes the room feel small and oppressive. When I turned the volume up I actually started to feel claustrophobic, how odd is that?

Some people would call the sound big, warm and full, I call it big, warm, hard and suffocating.

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Congrats on another good written impression Cafad. I do like how you juxtapose different amplifiers with one another to give far more perspective to your observations.

I also agree about the Cyrus, I have been listening to them for more years than I care to admit and they have never really changed their house sound,which is fair enough on one level as they are entitled to build and design whatever they see fit to cater to a [ relatively ] small , but loyal customer base. The thing is though, they may be retaining the fanbois, but in stark reality they are not discovering vast new troves of new generation owners.

Quite frankly, I wonder how they have survived for as long as they have.

The one area on which we appear to disagree is the characteristic of the house sound. My experience with Cyrus is that it is the audio equivalent of putting glass shards inside your ear canal,along with flecks of shiny metal.

They re-define the notion of bright,spotlit,shiny and metallic.

I agree that they have a claustrophobic sound and I commend you on the use of that word because it is so apt, but interestingly, I would use it in a sense of describing a sound that was so far in your face and bathed in laser light. Simply put ,IMO the sound is overly bright and oppressively tiring.

Isn't it interesting that we both have a similar description of the subjective effect of it's sound, but for opposite impressions of tonality? :)

Anyway, I had ....and have...no intention of hijacking your thread, but I just couldn't resist in this instance, but I think we both arrived at exactly the same conclusion, just for different reasons, regardless of which we have a consensus that it is a deeply flawed product [ and range ].

Thanks for your on-going energy and willingness to tell the truth. It may sometimes upset some fans, but you cannot avoid that in this hobby and the truth is ultimately very cool :thumb:

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"good written"?

Sorry, I couldn't suppress that moment of pedantism :-P

No need to apologise.

I am almost mortified by this error.

What I intended to post was.

"Congrats on another good and well written impression". I cannot explain the vacuous state of my mind at the time, although I do currently have some family medical issues to face and I am not quite myself.

I understand that this fact may indeed be a cause of celebration for some, but they shall only get to bask in the glory of myself being someone else, for a mere vignette of time, after which normal cognitive function should be restored.

I may need to compartmentalise my thoughts over the next few days, so please bear with me on this while the team works on the technical errors :)

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I wouldn't be too mortified about that one little slip up rantan, I understood that the "and well" were inferred and the post was directed at me so the correct meaning was successfully conveyed. No need to whip the technical team too hard.

It's also nice to know that someone agrees with my conclusions when I write an overall negative review like the most recent one above. I don't like putting negative comments on the permanent record like this but if I don't tell the truth about what I hear then there is no point in continuing with this hobby. Every amp I line up for testing I hope to be capable of great things but they can't all be better than each other so there are bound to be some disappointments and this is one of the more obvious ones.

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