Why doesn’t hifi gear keep its value?

[Al.M]

10 hours ago, JukKluk2 said:

I would be interested to know what the 1980's prices are when adjusted for inflation. The value equation might have a different answer once that comparison is made.

I have provided the 1980 prices above

[sir sanders zingmore]

10 hours ago, JukKluk2 said:

I would be interested to know what the 1980's prices are when adjusted for inflation. The value equation might have a different answer once that comparison is made.

$800 in 1985 is equivalent to  $2,368 in 2020

 

https://www.rba.gov.au/calculator/annualDecimal.html

[t_mike]

If you want ridiculously high prices for your used gear, sell it in Japan.

[aparashk]

On 10/06/2021 at 12:46 PM, cazzesman said:

Every day I am staggered at the prices 2nd hand items carry on SNA.   Even new stuff, never opened, is worth only 70% once it leaves the retailers shelf.     
 

The TAD’s for sale are a classic example.   Insane pricing.

 

Anything 6 months old is 50% or forget it.

 

Why is that so?    Is there simply to much choice to be had?   Are times that tough for both seller and buyer.

 

What brands/equipment genuinely holds its value?

 

I doubt I could ever bring myself to buy new again.   Might as well get your money out of the bank and set fire to 40% of it.   Same difference.

 

Regards Cazzesman.

 

 

 

I have been following classifieds for a few months now and I do not see this level of discounting. Typically 10-40% off RRP range on 1-5 yr old electronic items. Many of these "audiophile" items are priced stratospherically for what they are to begin with (10K DAC when a 1K Topping D90xx DAC scores perfectly objectively? That is 9K in upfront snake oil cost right there).

Edited June 17, 2021 by aparashk

[Silver Audiophile]

1 hour ago, aparashk said:

 

I have been following classifieds for a few months now and I do not see this level of discounting. Typically 10-40% off RRP range on 1-5 yr old electronic items. Many of these "audiophile" items are priced stratospherically for what they are to begin with (10K DAC when a 1K Topping D90xx DAC scores perfectly objectively? That is 9K in upfront snake oil cost right there).

 

What.. 1K for the Topping DAC, and $9 (including free postage) for the eBay DAC below with external power supply.. that's $991 of Snake Oil cost right there !! 

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/224320109734?_trkparms=aid%3D1110010%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.DISCCARDS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818141627%26meid%3D32138a82b6e14989aaef2b03995ac8a7%26pid%3D101110%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D384193117446%26itm%3D224320109734%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2563228%26algv%3Ddefault%26brand%3DUnbranded&_trksid=p2563228.c101110.m1982&amdata=cksum%3A22432010973432138a82b6e14989aaef2b03995ac8a7|enc%3AAQAGAAAB8Mev06eld3DHwTGa8o9a30MDyFEwMpBxfLstMNTk741wXc32FQ3dSDfUnMX8qToBfTNJiFIpQfJniOMimwFAw6l2EUZ6S00XCiqmg2D8kVu4ttyOQ0Rv5M0rV2apLdp2f94XS08K9QsVxZh7oUZ2Cy3zA8xEDB%2F4hymmlZ6M1eg6T5n%2FqIu%2BffSYIJFQh91kUHxlXurSDN8TyYY2ijBTRc3Oork0n1CSIITZWAnZeGT1XX%2BTQxOpsgUpCeQRdvbywnHvEvADp5%2FLmxsdA%2BfBnQzP1z1ZT3fqtUb097e%2BxCIAmEoOElTwMAPXCd7lb%2BvypiYvOFQTEFQCk7Y5O1eeeNNruS1rqZO7aPhwi6JHdg%2B2lvKVaUIaIvr%2Fh6Tr1ny%2BpbxYLGdBtkmQNQoko4D7e5PWgP9e9wxVem7qgHJayK5K3dkzyFCoBMvEeBPW8BO0T6RKMp7Omg7fejWRxpyarIkHU1CZxaHtBBzMtjwpJ6IRRqrh%2Fxo74LmVC6GSgDhhtVq2lk1iowaShhYnAlhX5oqoHSDxvH%2FKfI8BLsaUuPMppbIYvGWJpXqTQj5gAuXHUUGHVhoIbw8wcs4Ky%2FCADLXQdkD4TdPoPmvLjSHUut4KjyqwvL9zFGQw%2FH1s15Z7Tq9nd2lvtKGzEUYFUom5XF0%3D|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2563228

[Colonel Sanders]

On 11/06/2021 at 7:19 AM, BlueOceanBoy said:

It really just comes down to supply and demand. V8 Land Cruiser anyone? Selling for $150K. Rolex Submariner - up to 8K over retail. What we will see is an increase in demand for AKM4499 DACs after the fire. The other element is rarity, an Omega Snoopy, early Rolex etc. Or go down to your local aquarium, yellow tangs double the price of 12 months ago. Want to buy a house in a major capital city? Gazumping here we come. It's FOMO and too much lazy cheap money.......it'll all come crashing down!

 

I tought I was crazy buying a Rolex Daytona Panda at $6k over retail. These are now selling for $32k over retail. 

 

The question is when is the best time to get out of the bubble before it bursts... 

[Guest niterida]

15 minutes ago, Colonel Sanders said:

 

 the best time to get out of the bubble is just before it bursts... 

Fixed

I have a VZ Monaro that I bought for $20k 2 years ago and in the last 6-9months it has jumped in value from $30k to about $60k.

Should I sell it now or keep it and see if they keep rising ? What happens in a few months when the world economy comes crashing down (which many predict it will) ??

[aparashk]

1 hour ago, Silver Audiophile said:

 

What.. 1K for the Topping DAC, and $9 (including free postage) for the eBay DAC below with external power supply.. that's $991 of Snake Oil cost right there !! 

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/224320109734?_trkparms=aid%3D1110010%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.DISCCARDS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818141627%26meid%3D32138a82b6e14989aaef2b03995ac8a7%26pid%3D101110%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D384193117446%26itm%3D224320109734%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2563228%26algv%3Ddefault%26brand%3DUnbranded&_trksid=p2563228.c101110.m1982&amdata=cksum%3A22432010973432138a82b6e14989aaef2b03995ac8a7|enc%3AAQAGAAAB8Mev06eld3DHwTGa8o9a30MDyFEwMpBxfLstMNTk741wXc32FQ3dSDfUnMX8qToBfTNJiFIpQfJniOMimwFAw6l2EUZ6S00XCiqmg2D8kVu4ttyOQ0Rv5M0rV2apLdp2f94XS08K9QsVxZh7oUZ2Cy3zA8xEDB%2F4hymmlZ6M1eg6T5n%2FqIu%2BffSYIJFQh91kUHxlXurSDN8TyYY2ijBTRc3Oork0n1CSIITZWAnZeGT1XX%2BTQxOpsgUpCeQRdvbywnHvEvADp5%2FLmxsdA%2BfBnQzP1z1ZT3fqtUb097e%2BxCIAmEoOElTwMAPXCd7lb%2BvypiYvOFQTEFQCk7Y5O1eeeNNruS1rqZO7aPhwi6JHdg%2B2lvKVaUIaIvr%2Fh6Tr1ny%2BpbxYLGdBtkmQNQoko4D7e5PWgP9e9wxVem7qgHJayK5K3dkzyFCoBMvEeBPW8BO0T6RKMp7Omg7fejWRxpyarIkHU1CZxaHtBBzMtjwpJ6IRRqrh%2Fxo74LmVC6GSgDhhtVq2lk1iowaShhYnAlhX5oqoHSDxvH%2FKfI8BLsaUuPMppbIYvGWJpXqTQj5gAuXHUUGHVhoIbw8wcs4Ky%2FCADLXQdkD4TdPoPmvLjSHUut4KjyqwvL9zFGQw%2FH1s15Z7Tq9nd2lvtKGzEUYFUom5XF0%3D|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2563228

 

Can't tell if this is a joke or not, but objectively, the difference is night and day:

 

- $1K buys you objectively the top measured DAC: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-d90se-review-balanced-dac.24235/

- $10 buys you a mediocre working product: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/unbranded-adc-from-ebay-measurements.23962/

 

You can get great sounding DACs in the double digit $$$, e.g. the Apple USBC dongles, but still demonstrably limited compared to the D90 and many other comparable devices.

[Silver Audiophile]

5 hours ago, aparashk said:

 

Can't tell if this is a joke or not, but objectively, the difference is night and day:

 

- $1K buys you objectively the top measured DAC: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-d90se-review-balanced-dac.24235/

- $10 buys you a mediocre working product: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/unbranded-adc-from-ebay-measurements.23962/

 

You can get great sounding DACs in the double digit $$$, e.g. the Apple USBC dongles, but still demonstrably limited compared to the D90 and many other comparable devices.

 

Been an audiophile for over 20 years. Owned plenty of DACs over the decades. Started with cheaper DACs, costing hundreds, then a thousand, now circa $12k Aqua La Scala Mk2 Optologic DAC.

I appreciated every step in the process. I do read reviews, and measurement results. However, ultimately I rely on my hearing and experience. In my $100k HiFi system, the La Scala was a G-d sent for it's sonic signature and technology.

If you're passing through the Newcastle area, you are more than welcome to plug your portable Topping DAC into my system for a head to head with the Aqua La Scala..

 

 

[TP1]

 

I don't think the Aussie market is quite intensive enough to sustain decent secondhand prices.  In Japan and Hong Kong for example, second hand  gear is sought after  and  on average seems to be valued more highly than in Australia.     Perhaps there is an oversupply situation here, which is great for buyers. 

[JukKluk2]

32 minutes ago, Silver Audiophile said:

 

Been an audiophile for over 20 years. Owned plenty of DACs over the decades. Started with cheaper DACs, costing hundreds, then a thousand, now circa $12k Aqua La Scala Mk2 Optologic DAC.

I appreciated every step in the process. I do read reviews, and measurement results. However, ultimately I rely on my hearing and experience. In my $100k HiFi system, the La Scala was a G-d sent for it's sonic signature and technology.

If you're passing through the Newcastle area, you are more than welcome to plug your portable Topping DAC into my system for a head to head with the Aqua La Scala..

 

 

Don't know about @aparashk but I'd certainly like to.

[Silver Audiophile]

13 minutes ago, JukKluk2 said:

Don't know about @aparashk but I'd certainly like to.

 

You're more than welcome to. It would be nice to compare the La Scala (which is R2R resistor ladder and tube/Mosfet output) against a all Chip based DAC like the T&A DAC8.

The Aqua La Scala DAC was made and shipped from Milan, Italy with a new production 12AT7 tube. I rolled it with a NOS Raytheon mil spec 12AT7WA tube (circa 1950/60s).. I'm in heaven!

Below, a small description of La Scala tube rolling:

 

 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by Silver Audiophile

[audiofeline]

I find it frustrating reading US audio forums where people list their garage sale and goodwill shop finds.  There is so much vintage gear over there that it doesn't seem to difficult to get reasonable quality (lower-end) components for next to nothing. 

At the higher-end, again there is comparatively so much more in the country that it's easy to get components (of course, at this quality range not at the goodwill prices). 

 

 

[almikel]

look at old school turntables - Yamaha or Denon or Technics - gone nuts

Try to purchase a Yamaha GT-2000 - good luck

[TP1]

2 hours ago, almikel said:

look at old school turntables - Yamaha or Denon or Technics - gone nuts

Try to purchase a Yamaha GT-2000 - good luck

 

Yes- prices are set by Japan secondhand market which is where many Technics and all  GT2000 come from. 

 

 

 

 

[Cope]

Part of the reason some components don't hold their value:

 

"Here at Acoustic Research System Electronics, with the success of our recent product, we've been hard at work over the last *checks watch* 6 months applying everything we've learned to bring you what you've all been asking for, the Special Hyper Integrated Tribute Mk7.4 LE!"

 

"I'm sorry, who was asking for that?" 

 

"Well, shareholders, mainly" 

 

"And what is it exactly that you've learned over the past six months?" 

 

"That people like it when we change the model number"

 

"They like it?" 

 

"Well, they like their old product less" 

 

"Why?" 

 

"Because the number is different" 

 

"Does it sound any different?" 

 

"Oh, probably, we changed some bits in there I think" 

 

"Why did you do that?" 

 

"We got a better deal on the new bits than we got on the old bits" 

 

"The press release here says you've improved the sound" 

 

"The shareholders like the sound of it very much"

 

"It says it's the last amplifier you'll ever need, and that... hang on, why does this photo have a Legitimate In-Studio Encoded Stream certification on the side and the others don't?" 

 

"Oh, sorry, how did that get in there?"

 

"What is it?"

 

"Ask me in 6 months" 

[RCAJack]

OP will get no sympathy out of TVs from 1992

 

[aparashk]

On 17/06/2021 at 7:16 PM, Silver Audiophile said:

If you're passing through the Newcastle area, you are more than welcome to plug your portable Topping DAC into my system for a head to head with the Aqua La Scala..

 

Thanks for the offer, I would love to hear your system, share a beer or two, and talk about music.  Being in Adelaide, it may be a while before I can take you up on the offer, though...

 

I do not own this Topping DAC, I have a lower model, D50, which also measures (and sounds) very, very well, and does great in my Stax setup.

[captainbooyah]

I guess it works both ways, you sell cheap, but you can also buy cheap if you get lucky.

I remember picking up a pair of Mission m71's in a local pawn shop for $19 in ok condition a few years ago and quite liking the idea of depreciation.