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Why doesn’t hifi gear keep its value?


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A guy I know based in Bloomington Indiana (my parent company's office) does exactly that. He set up a business buying 1-3 yr old Lambos, Ferraris etc from OS students who sold them on leaving IU. Buys them at 10c in the $. He once picked up a 911 that just had the keys on the seat outside the dorm the student was in. Student had rung and said "can you dispose of my car"?! He then cleans them up (they're often dinged) and then transports them all over the US. Has done very well for himself until C-19 came along!

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20 hours ago, DrSK said:

A few things that bucked the trend. 

 

Higher spec Panasonic plasma once discontinued. Resold for nearly double once people realised how bad LCD were at the time. Superior plasma only died at the time due to tightening energy efficiency requirements and the 4k prototypes couldn't meet them. 

 

Oppo 205 once discontinued. Still commanding about double RRP. And still nothing that comes close to replacing its capability.

 

Bought my 205 the day after the announcement was made. And same on my plasma, trying not to laugh as negotiated a big discount on it, then watched the resellers charge double 2 months later.

 

Personally I by 2nd hand hifi a fair bit, and new gear is from local manufacturers. 

 

And when the gear is occasionally tax deductable, 2nd hand would have to be less than half price and nearly new to be worthwhile. 

 

 

I'm with you Dr SK. I orgered an Oppo 205 and am still laughing at the 2nd hand price.

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Nakamichi tape decks have been on an upward spiral since the company was sold, and now seemingly going into orbit. Dragons, ZX series in particular are still very sought after. 

The reason? No other brand/mamufacturer  comes within a cooee of them and product of this quality isn't going to be seen again. 

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I've never come across any HI FI gear that holds its value bar old nostalgic stuff. Hi end gear in particular, the ass falls out because there's so much mark up in the first place, you only have to see some of the bargains on SNA.

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On 11/06/2021 at 12:55 PM, JukKluk2 said:

Probably the single best audio item that Tandy ever sold. For the price they were, and remain, pretty good value. A mate of mine who owns a pair of Sonus Faber Amati still hangs on to his pair for old times sake.

Still have my original pair.

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Probably no different to other forms of electrical equipment or technology..........we have to pay top price for the high end gear or the latest release of tech.

It never ceases to amaze me how retailers can put items on sale for up to 70% off the items price to clear last seasons clothing, footwear, phones, tech etc. - does this reflect with how much of a mark-up in pricing to begin with?

Remember the old saying "a fool and his money".......

Even if I could afford to pay $100k plus for speaker cables, I'm sure it's not going to restore that portion of my hearing range that I've lost due to age!!

I love the other saying that they don't put pockets in coffins........

We all decide where and how we spend our $$

 

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13 hours ago, Saxon Hall said:

Because the vast majority of people on Planet Earth  are not interested in Hi Fi. Therefore you only have a very small pool of people that are potential customers.

Heresy!!!! 😅

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Guest deanB
14 hours ago, Saxon Hall said:

Because the vast majority of people on Planet Earth  are not interested in Hi Fi. Therefore you only have a very small pool of people that are potential customers.

And if a seller needs to offload an item in order to purchase the NBT, he/she will price their item in hope of a quick sale and that becomes the new market price down the track for the next poor bugger trying to move the same thing on in the same small pond.

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35 minutes ago, deanB said:

And if a seller needs to offload an item in order to purchase the NBT, he/she will price their item in hope of a quick sale and that becomes the new market price down the track for the next poor bugger trying to move the same thing on in the same small pond.

 

And????

 

Andy

 

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Mostly, correct for HiFi gear. Some rare exceptions no doubt.

But, that's the wrong way to loo at it. Enjoy owning great audio gear that makes you happy.

If buying new is too much to stomach the depreciation, and funds needed elsewhere, take advantage of cheap used gear, and buy used.

I am a hospital Doctor. I have a 37 year old woman admitted right now, married with 4 young children. Diagnosed with terminal incurable biliary cancer. She has a few weeks left, and too ill to return home.

At one point last year, I had four patients admitted with Bowel cancer, and all in their 30s!

None of these people expected to die young.

Life's short.

 

Edited by Silver Audiophile
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Guest Old Man Rubber
3 hours ago, deanB said:

And if a seller needs to offload an item in order to purchase the NBT, he/she will price their item in hope of a quick sale and that becomes the new market price down the track for the next poor bugger trying to move the same thing on in the same small pond.

I don't think this is true.  People will only pay what they think something is worth and if yours is the only one available, the last sale price might be irrelevent, especially if it is something fancy and the vendor went out of business or cheapened the replacement product out.  The price of vintage Sansui gear isn't affected by the 1980s post-failure Sansui dross that is worth nothing.

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3 hours ago, Silver Audiophile said:

Mostly, correct for HiFi gear. Some rear exceptions no doubt.

But, that's the wrong way to loo at it. Enjoy owning great audio gear that makes you happy.

If buying new is too much to stomach the depreciation, and funds needed elsewhere, take advantage of cheap used gear, and buy used.

I am a hospital Doctor. I have a 37 year old woman admitted right now, married with 4 young children. Diagnosed with terminal incurable biliary cancer. She has a few weeks left, and too ill to return home.

At one point last year, I had four patients admitted with Bowel cancer, and all in their 30s!

None of these people expected to die young.

Life's short.

 

 

Thanks for the reality check 'chuckles' 😭

 

Regards Cazzesman

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So far the discussion has been confined to Western capitalist systems. Comrades, consider for a moment the bizarre world of NOS tubes/valves, where Communism lives on!

 

I just bought my first tube amp and find myself paying exorbitant prices for obsolete devices produced in Soviet bloc countries that have had regime changes (Hungary) and/or no longer exist (Yugoslavia).

 

If these countries had been able to trade their tubes with audiophiles outside the Iron Curtain at today's prices, perhaps the USSR could have stumbled on for a few more years!    

Edited by Bill_F
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1 hour ago, Bill_F said:

So far the discussion has been confined to Western capitalist systems. Comrades, consider for a moment the bizarre world of NOS tubes/valves, where Communism lives on!

 

I just bought my first tube amp and find myself paying exorbitant prices for obsolete devices produced in Soviet bloc countries that have had regime changes (Hungary) and/or no longer exist (Yugoslavia).

 

If these countries had been able to trade their tubes with audiophiles outside the Iron Curtain at today's prices, perhaps the USSR could have stumbled on for a few more years!    

Most NOS bought today were mainly produced by Western Europe, and the USA. Brimar, Mullards, Phillips, Telefunken, Raytheon, GE, Sylvanias, RCA etc. Soviet block NOS from Tungsram (Hungary), et al are great tubes too, and still available for reasonable money compared to their Western counterparts. Tube were made hundreds of locations through the World during the peak. 

Current production tubes, different story. Slovakia, China, and the biggest of them all Reflektor factory- Saratov, Russia.  NOS absolutely smash current production tubes for quality and sound.

Not all NOS costs a mint, depending on how rare they are. Hungarian Tungsrams, and Anerican Raytheon tubes et al, absolutely sound amazing and available for less money than new production Russian made reissues like the Gold lions!

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More examples bucking the trend like Yamaha NS1000 speakers rrp in 1980s at $1800 today $1500-2000 and Kef, Rogers and Chartwell Ls3/5a speakers rrp in 1980s at $800 today $1500-5000.

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If you want gear to hold it's value get audio reviewers and people on the forums to rave about it non stop to the point Asian audiophiles will pay ridiculous amount of money for it. The LS3/5a is a clear example.

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13 hours ago, Al.M said:

More examples bucking the trend like Yamaha NS1000 speakers rrp in 1980s at $1800 today $1500-2000 and Kef, Rogers and Chartwell Ls3/5a speakers rrp in 1980s at $800 today $1500-5000.

I would be interested to know what the 1980's prices are when adjusted for inflation. The value equation might have a different answer once that comparison is made.

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The biggest advantage of buying brand new Hifi is that you can try many different systems in shop without being timewaster. Auditioning is  priceless and can save you much more money than buying second hand.   

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4 hours ago, Irek said:

The biggest advantage of buying brand new Hifi is that you can try many different systems in shop without being timewaster. Auditioning is  priceless and can save you much more money than buying second hand.   

 

I agree people probably don't invest the time as audiophiles to efficiently use their time to explore all the new gear on demo purposes. Buying something used, unheard before, with view of flipping if it doesn't sound good, is hugely inconvenient and a waste of time, a missed opportunity to own the gear you really wanted, and potentially money too. There have been many instances in the last 20 years, were I have visited a HiFi store and listened to many different brands on the same day. When, I hadn't bought something that was to my budget that I liked, I had bought it years later as a bargain used item. I'm not ringing up the used seller and offering them low ball offers (buyers remorse/flip-ability  insurance)! I buy with strong conviction- I heard it before, it's an awesome item, and I'm glad it is now within my budget! This doesn't just make me happy as the convinced buyer, it also allows the seller to upgrade to their destination gear.  Everyone gets what they wants now (buyer and seller), and everyone is happy. Ultimately the end, I think people spend too much time online, and reading reviews, which is never a substitution for listening to the piece. All questions could be answers in a fraction of time, by just going to a HiFi shop and listening to everything and knowing what it is you like.

Edited by Silver Audiophile
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36 minutes ago, Silver Audiophile said:

 

I agree people probably don't invest the time as audiophiles to efficiently use their time to explore all the new gear on demo purposes. Buying something used, unheard before, with view of flipping if it doesn't sound good, is hugely inconvenient and a waste of time, a missed opportunity to own the gear you really wanted, and potentially money too. There have been many instances in the last 20 years, were I have visited a HiFi store and listened to many different brands on the same day. When, I hadn't bought something that was to my budget that I liked, I had bought it years later as a bargain used item. I'm not ringing up the used seller and offering them low ball offers (buyers remorse/flip-ability  insurance)! I buy with strong conviction- I heard it before, it's an awesome item, and I'm glad it is now within my budget! This doesn't just make me happy as the convinced buyer, it also allows the seller to upgrade to their destination gear.  Everyone gets what they wants now (buyer and seller), and everyone is happy. Ultimately the end, I think people spend too much time online, and reading reviews, which is never a substitution for listening to the piece. All questions could be answers in a fraction of time, by just going to a HiFi shop and listening to everything and knowing what it is you like.

I have been to a lot of Shows and HIFI Shops and I do not have the ability to pic out a component to hear the difference!! How can you review a CD player when there are so many variables in the other equipment and room acoustics different to your own system??

 

Rodrigues20-20anechoic20dealer.jpg.edcfc4212fb472d1d3f7087957ef0dc7.jpg

 

 

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1 hour ago, Stump said:

I have been to a lot of Shows and HIFI Shops and I do not have the ability to pic out a component to hear the difference!! How can you review a CD player when there are so many variables in the other equipment and room acoustics different to your own system??

 

Rodrigues20-20anechoic20dealer.jpg.edcfc4212fb472d1d3f7087957ef0dc7.jpg

 

 

 

I start simple. Ask the dealer if he could demo a system. Listen carefully. I'll have an opinion. If it's good, I start mixing and matching. I usual start at the speakers.

In your CD player example, it is easy. Choose a CD player to start with. Then, ask to try another one. Then, another. Like building a mental picture of each CD players unique sonic signature.

I still remember, sitting at a HiFi shop 16 years ago. Listen to the three different Musical Fidelity CD players, plus others. Still remember their sonic strengths. Same applies to speakers, power amps, even cables.

My fondest memory was the Focal Grande Utopia Speakers, with top of line Krell pre amp and transport and Halcro DM88 monos. The Krell Pre amps retailed around the $25k range (circa 2005). I remember, how I put my classical CD that I brought in sounded. I remember hearing the bow of double bass, whether the bow was pushing forward and drawn back over the strings. Of course, we listened to different brands in every component.. but in my mind- I'm thinking I love that Flagship Krell Pre amp's sonic signature! That Halcro.. that Halcro amp sound.. no other brand of amp sounds like it!

My audiophile friend is the absolutely opposite of me, he struggles to do this. Trouble with him, he buys heaps of used gear, and still struggles after listening to it for months in his own system to decide if he likes it not! My mate relies heavily on audio reviews. He relegates the job of deciding which audio system suits him, based on a reviewers opinion. Total madness. He is always complaining about his system. He never seems to be happy with any purchase he eventually makes. I'm the opposite. I buy something after hearing it demonstrated in store just once. Only to discover after I take it home there is so much more to the capability! Setup is important. Room acoustics, and other components in the audio chain matters. Not withstanding HiFi stores limited ability to best present audio equipment, I factor this into my decision.

 

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