Silver Audiophile Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 (edited) Three fine DACs in the Aqua line up. I own the Aqua La Scala Mk2 Optologic. This DAC has twin output ECC81 tubes in the output stage, ripe from rolling. Owners first hand experiences with different tubes? I have tried the Raytheon 12AT7WA (pictured below), Phillips Miniwatt, and other NOS tubes on the way. There is also the discussion of aftermarket fuses, and owners experience on it's sonic signature? Edited June 9, 2021 by Silver Audiophile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlurkA Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 (edited) I am also an owner of the the La Scala. Yet to try a different tube in it. Looking forward to giving it a go based on recommendations and providing some feedback. My tubes are the Genalex installed in the factory. Edited June 9, 2021 by AlurkA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlurkA Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Audiophile Posted June 9, 2021 Author Share Posted June 9, 2021 20 minutes ago, AlurkA said: Interesting. My La Scala DAC arrived new in the box, without the separate Genalex tubes boxes as above. When I opened the unit, the two 12AT7 tubes had no branding label to indicate they are Genalex tubes. They had a simple printed label with some serial numbers. Otherwise, the tubes appeared to be generic new production Russian tubes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Audiophile Posted June 9, 2021 Author Share Posted June 9, 2021 Short online description about the Raytheons.. Raytheon JAN 12AT7WA and JAN CRP 12AT7WA Triple Mica Black Plates Made in USA and military spec. Two batches in stock, one from 1963, another from 1968. All tubes have triple mica, black plates and o-getters. All MINT like other tubes in our stock. One of the best American 12AT7s. These are quite strong and neutral, very quiet, with tight transparent bass. We consider this tube an "undiscovered" one with its sound similiar to the famous 5751 WMG. My listening to the Raytheon JAN CRP 12AT7WA (over stock tubes): 1) Fuller, warmer mids, and bass. 2) Lower background noise. 3) Vocals just behind the speaker and more natural sounding (rather than very forward - between the listener and the speaker) 4) More natural timbre to stringed instruments. The natural warm visceral reverb of the Double bass is felt rather than just heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlurkA Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 The pics were the ones I have as a standby. Bought seperately but they match the ones I have in the DAC itself and look like.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlurkA Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 (edited) I vaguely recall when reading about the la Scala that they originally were released with a different tube set and moved to Genalex. Am wondering if this is the difference. Edit...could be wrong the Genalex maybe the originals. Too many reviews...well..reviewed. Edited June 9, 2021 by AlurkA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Audiophile Posted June 9, 2021 Author Share Posted June 9, 2021 (edited) Interesting. The pics below are of the tubes that came with my new La Scala DAC. Clearly, they look different from the Genalex 12AT7 tubes (short grey plates with double getters). Genalex tube (above) has long plates, single getter. Edited June 9, 2021 by Silver Audiophile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlurkA Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 This is the article I had read including the tube information. https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/review/digital-reviews/spdif-dac-reviews/aqua-la-scala-mkii/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlurkA Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Has anyone had experience with purchasing Tubes through these guys? They look to have the Raytheon. http://www.nostubestore.com/2010/05/raytheon-12at7wa-tmbp.html?m=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Audiophile Posted June 9, 2021 Author Share Posted June 9, 2021 2 hours ago, AlurkA said: This is the article I had read including the tube information. https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/review/digital-reviews/spdif-dac-reviews/aqua-la-scala-mkii/ I think I've figured it out, below is my recent correspondence with Aqua in Italy via email, where the owner and designer answered my questions: Currently, La Scala is fitted with a pair of specially selected Russian ECC81. Unfortunately, the new production Genalex no longer meet the HQ standards. The left tube serves the RCA outputs while the tube on the right is for XLR. We recommend the selection for the 2 triodes for each tube. Kind regards, Cristian Anelli aqua - acoustic quality email: support@aquahifi.com www.aquahifi.com Makes sense now, the Genalex Gold lions must have been given the boot, and Cristian Anelli is now using the newer unlabled new Russian production tubes (my DAC is fairly new). Either way, all new production Russian tubes come out of the Saratov Reflektor factory. I clearly hear a vast improvements with the NOS tubes still however. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlurkA Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Excellent. Thanks. Seems like this is the third tube type they have introduced into the La Scala. Interesting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Audiophile Posted June 10, 2021 Author Share Posted June 10, 2021 This morning I popped open the fuse box.. custom ceramic fuse too! Seem Cristian Anelli is across the idea, fuses do make a difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Audiophile Posted June 10, 2021 Author Share Posted June 10, 2021 (edited) Tried these Phillips Miniwatt ECC81s in La Scala DAC.. photo from online seller in Europe. Sound was: 1) Clean 2) Reduced noise floor 3) Lacking in emotion or x-factor 4) The background 'fill' was light Nice, but not my cup of tea sound. All in all.. proves how just rolling some tubes (for very little money), can make for a brand new sounding DAC. Edited June 10, 2021 by Silver Audiophile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlurkA Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 (edited) These arrived today. Time to figure out how to install them. First time tube rolling.... Edited June 15, 2021 by AlurkA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Audiophile Posted June 15, 2021 Author Share Posted June 15, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, AlurkA said: These arrived today. Time to figure out how to install them. First time tube rolling.... Only really necessary to roll the tube on the right if you're using XLR output (when the unit is viewed front on). Roll the tube that tested 5700/6000. This tube has a better triode balance and higher gain value. Guess that answers the question.. does the NOS tube store exist and honest Below, how to roll tubes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIKGN8hQazI Edited June 15, 2021 by Silver Audiophile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlurkA Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 (edited) Many Thanks @Silver Audiophile this is precidely the information I needed. Were your Raytheons measured and if so in-line with the ones I received? Cheers Edited June 15, 2021 by AlurkA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Audiophile Posted June 18, 2021 Author Share Posted June 18, 2021 Just arrived today- Telos Quantum X2 fuses.. plugged it into the PS Audio P10 and Primaluna Evo400 pre amp this morning. Holy smokes!! The soundstage, big sound, and lively. Definate convert to fuse upgrades now! https://recordclean.com.au/telos-quantum-x2-fuse-audiophile-grade-upgrade.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Audiophile Posted June 18, 2021 Author Share Posted June 18, 2021 (edited) Just received an email response from the designer of the La Scala DAC Cristian Anelli regarding the mains fuse specs, for replacing to higher grade fuse if desired: FUSE: Ceramic 1A; 250VAC; 5x20mm; SLOW BLOW Thanks for the attention, Cristian Anelli aqua - acoustic quality email: support@aquahifi.com www.aquahifi.com Edited June 18, 2021 by Silver Audiophile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Audiophile Posted August 22, 2021 Author Share Posted August 22, 2021 (edited) Recently, rolled away the Raytheon 12AT7WA NOS tube for Telefunken ECC801S tube (not to be confused with cheaper Telefunken ECC81). Now, the Raytheons was a step up from the factory installed Russian new production tubes. However, with the Telefunken ECC801S, the step up is just tremendous. 1) Vastly improved detail and texture/layering. 2) Organic timbre and decay. 3) Quieter background. 4) Larger deeper soundstage. 5) Beautiful top end, without shrill or harshness, whilst still preserving vast amounts of air. Of the four points above. It is definitely the first two point that really sticks out. Most important to ensure one gets a perfectly triode balanced tube though. Edited August 22, 2021 by Silver Audiophile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlurkA Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 @Silver Audiophile how do you go about picking your individual tubes given they are singles and look to measure differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Audiophile Posted August 23, 2021 Author Share Posted August 23, 2021 It doesn't matter if a tube reads low or normal in regards to its recommended new mu gain and transconductance values. All that's important is the two triode within that one tube is the same as the other. Hope this answers. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Audiophile Posted August 29, 2021 Author Share Posted August 29, 2021 (edited) Added Telos caps to the back of the La Scala DAC and Pre amp too.. Sound like Vooodoo audio science, but thank me later once you try it! Before: Veiled sound. After: Holy smokes. Veil is gone. Cover your mouth slight with hand and speak. Remove hand, and hear the difference. That's what I mean by veil, you will not notice veil until the Telos caps go in. Wow!! Just Wow!! Got mine from Aussie importer: https://recordclean.com.au/telos-gold-plated-rca-quantum-caps-set-of-4.html https://recordclean.com.au/telos-gold-plated-quantum-xlr-male-caps-audiophile-upgrade.html Edited August 29, 2021 by Silver Audiophile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikhuong Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 Joining your club, will look for some tube rolling experience, 10 hours so far, 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BugPowderDust Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 11 hours ago, ikhuong said: Joining your club, will look for some tube rolling experience, 10 hours so far, Will be interesting to hear about your listening experiences compared to your MSB. Does that mean you’ve sold the Premier or just running multiple DACs now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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