Looking for a good phono stage around $2K budget

[TheWretchedWorld]

Hey guys,

 

I'm trying to decide on a new phono stage for my system. Currently im running a Yamaha GT-2000 turntable with an at33ptg/ii. I'm just using the inbuilt phono stage in my Rega Elicit R paired with a basic at AT630 SUT. It has served me well the past 2 years but now I'm really curious as to what additional performance I can eek out of this setup.

Now I have a few strange requirements I want as close to 70db of gain as possible so I have the flexibility of running very low output cartridges as well as not having a ground lug for the mains as I want to avoid potential ground loops I could run into integrating it into my setup. I also want customizable settings such as loading etc preferably with dials but dip switches are fine as well. These are the ones i've considered thus far

Rega Aria MK3
Pro-ject Phonobox rs (gain is a little low for rca) OR rs2
Pro-ject Tubebox DS2 (little bit cheaper than the others but fits the requirements)
Musical Fidelity MX-VYNL (little bit low on gain but ticks all other boxes)


Curious if there are any other recommendations you guys would make or if there are any that potentially might be available used within my budget worth considering
 

[andyr]

Hi Louis,

 

13 minutes ago, TheWretchedWorld said:

I'm trying to decide on a new phono stage for my system. Currently im running a Yamaha GT-2000 turntable with an at33ptg/ii. I'm just using the inbuilt phono stage in my Rega Elicit R paired with a basic at AT630 SUT. It has served me well the past 2 years but now I'm really curious as to what additional performance I can eek out of this setup.

 

Yes, I think you can certainly gain additional performance - from 2 areas:

1. a phono stage circuit which sounds better than what the Rega Elicit R offers, and
2. different loading for your AT33PTG/ii.

I offer my Muse MC phono stage.

 

13 minutes ago, TheWretchedWorld said:

Now I have a few strange requirements I want as close to 70db of gain as possible so I have the flexibility of running very low output cartridges as well as not having a ground lug for the mains as I want to avoid potential ground loops I could run into integrating it into my setup. I also want customizable settings such as loading etc preferably with dials but dip switches are fine as well.

 

You of course don't need as high as 70dB gain for your current AT33PTG/ii (0.3mV) - but, yes, this would enable you to venture into LOMCs having a very low output.

 

I would supply a Muse which is powered by a 24v Sbooster linear PS - so does not have a mains ground connection (as you specified).  It would be well within your budget.

 

Cart loading with a Muse is achieved by means of an additional pair of input RCA sockets, into which you put 'loaded' plugs (ie. RCA plugs which have a resistor soldered across them, which act in parallel with the default 47K loading on the circuit board).  This gives you an extremely flexible choice of loading:

• I believe your AT630 SUT has a 1:15 coil ratio - which means your AT33PTG/ii is currently being loaded with 209 ohms.
• the specs I could find for the AT33PTG/ii said that it has a coil inductance of 17 ohms; hence - given my own experience - I would suggest the optimal load is somewhere between 170 ohms ... and 1700 ohms.

If you're interested, I can lend you a MC Muse which has a bit less than 70dB gain ... which you can listen to, to see whether you like its sound.  I would also supply it with a collection of load plugs between 150 ohms and 2K - so you can hear how loading changes the sound.  I would supply a pair of load plugs with your preferred value, together with a 70dB Muse, if you decided to go ahead with one.

 

Please PM me if you're interested.

 

Andy

 

[rantan]

I am probably biased but I absolutely recommend the Dynavector P75 Mk IV.

 

I also think @andyr's Muse stage would be great and I feel that either/ both would be superior to those others you listed in your post.

[Batty]

Andy, how much cash are we looking at for your Muse? please PM me with options, I have a Vincent PHO-8 atm.

[Cardiiiii]

Used RCM Sensor 2

[Southerly]

In 2010 when it looked like the international Ponzi scheme was going to collapse and very few were buying anything let alone audio gear I bought at half price £600 a Talk Electronics MC 3 phono stage -  look for the manual online. It can handle almost any cartridge, MM or MC and Mono.  I doubt you could buy it s/hand now but I offer it as a benchmark for you to compare what it offers compared to what's on offer now. All adjustments are by dip switches, this makes experimenting with settings very easy.  ATM I use an AT33EV and a NOS  LOMM Pickering 7500S but want to try an AT 33SA (Shibata). 

[andyr]

43 minutes ago, Southerly said:

In 2010 when it looked like the international Ponzi scheme was going to collapse and very few were buying anything let alone audio gear I bought at half price £600 a Talk Electronics MC 3 phono stage -  look for the manual online. It can handle almost any cartridge, MM or MC and Mono.  I doubt you could buy it s/hand now but I offer it as a benchmark for you to compare what it offers compared to what's on offer now. All adjustments are by dip switches, this makes experimenting with settings very easy.  ATM I use an AT33EV and a NOS  LOMM Pickering 7500S but want to try an AT 33SA (Shibata). 

 

Looking at the specs I found, Stuart ... I'm wondering what you base your claim on that "It can handle almost any cartridge, MM or MC"?

 

Specs say the load offered to MC carts is 100 ohms - so completely useless, say, for the Benz LP I used to have ... which sounded its best, loaded with 3K3 (100x coil impedance).

 

Whereas the 'Muse' MC phono stage which I can supply ... can offer an MC cart any load from 10 ohms to 47K.  (It does this by having a 2nd pair of input RCAs, into which 'loaded' RCA plugs can be inserted.)

 

Andy

 

[Guest]

The Graham Slee Accession + Enigma PSU may fit the bill, with a slightly lower gain though.

[Southerly]

22 hours ago, andyr said:

 

Looking at the specs I found, Stuart ... I'm wondering what you base your claim on that "It can handle almost any cartridge, MM or MC"?

 

Specs say the load offered to MC carts is 100 ohms - so completely useless, say, for the Benz LP I used to have ... which sounded its best, loaded with 3K3 (100x coil impedance).

 

Whereas the 'Muse' MC phono stage which I can supply ... can offer an MC cart any load from 10 ohms to 47K.  (It does this by having a 2nd pair of input RCAs, into which 'loaded' RCA plugs can be inserted.)

 

Andy

 

Andy take another look, there are 12 load settings from 120 pF - 1K  and 6 gain MC 73dB / MM 40dB and for those with mono LPs it offers true mono reproduction

[andyr]

48 minutes ago, Southerly said:

Andy take another look, there are 12 load settings from 120 pF - 1K  and 6 gain MC 73dB / MM 40dB and for those with mono LPs it offers true mono reproduction

 

Load settings for MM (ie. pF capacitance) need to be distinct from load settings for MC (ie. resistance), I suggest Stuart.  However variable gain settings is indeed a plus.  

 

And a max of 1K res loading would be not be particularly helpful for a Benz LP.

 

Andy

 

[Southerly]

5 hours ago, andyr said:

 

Load settings for MM (ie. pF capacitance) need to be distinct from load settings for MC (ie. resistance), I suggest Stuart.  However variable gain settings is indeed a plus.  

 

And a max of 1K res loading would be not be particularly helpful for a Benz LP.

 

Andy

 

Andy, they are distinct and at the time of production Kevin Edwards could configure whatever a customer wanted.  Not trying to knock your work and it's not available now anyway, quality build and components and  like yours NOT made in China. Looking forward to buying his unipivot once I have removed the plinth on my Kenwood deck.

[Richard Tremain]

On 16/05/2021 at 11:35 AM, rantan said:

I am probably biased but I absolutely recommend the Dynavector P75 Mk IV.

 

I also think @andyr's Muse stage would be great and I feel that either/ both would be superior to those others you listed in your post.

I concur with rantan as a commercial item the Dyna P75 Mk IV sounds good and as it is Australian made you do not pay such a hefty price you will get your moneys worth! ( Same goes for andys unit i would think )

It is difficult to fiddle with as you have to disconnect and slide the case open to reach the Dip switches

and the manual is an absolute must to do so but you sound experienced.

The MX VYNL is more an average unit easy to use but more easy going and less resolving than some.

 

[petng]

 I maybe letting of of my Valab phono for $800. 
 

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by petng

[shawnwes]

On 5/21/2021 at 4:27 AM, andyr said:

 

Looking at the specs I found, Stuart ... I'm wondering what you base your claim on that "It can handle almost any cartridge, MM or MC"?

 

Specs say the load offered to MC carts is 100 ohms - so completely useless, say, for the Benz LP I used to have ... which sounded its best, loaded with 3K3 (100x coil impedance).

 

Whereas the 'Muse' MC phono stage which I can supply ... can offer an MC cart any load from 10 ohms to 47K.  (It does this by having a 2nd pair of input RCAs, into which 'loaded' RCA plugs can be inserted.)

 

Andy

 

 

In fairness though parallel cartridge loading can be done with almost any phono preamp though can't it?

 

http://daveyw.edsstuff.org/vinyl/loading/

 

I know when attempting to find the optimal load for my previous Dynavector 20 X2 Hi used a kit from DB Systems & via trial & error - I purchased other resistor values from my local electronics shop - arrived at a value of just under 1k as optimal with my Valab phono pre.

 

https://www.stereophile.com/phonoaccessories/db_systems_dbp-6mc/index.html

[andyr]

9 hours ago, shawnwes said:

 

In fairness though parallel cartridge loading can be done with almost any phono preamp though can't it?

 

http://daveyw.edsstuff.org/vinyl/loading/

 

Yes, it certainly can - and great article.  

 

However, a phono stage which only has the normal, single pair of input RCA sockets ... requires the use of an RCA 'T' connector - or a 'Y' cable as shown in the article. So the (very low) signal has to pass through an additional connector, before it reaches the phono stage.  Which IMO ... is not the optimal situation.  

 

Andy

 

 

[Steever]

Not sure if you've made progress but, just in case, I can also recommend the Dynavector P-75 mk4. It's under budget but don't be put off by that. I loved mine but did make the jump to a Cyrus Phono Signature a few hours later and have not looked back. The Cyrus is above budget new but deals have shown up in the classifieds with matching power supply for approx $2k and for the money, I would suggest is hard to better. It ticks all the boxes you note also.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Steever

[Tax]

Good advice given here by previous posters.

 

You may also want to consider a used Electrocompaniet ECP1 if ypu can find one.

 

I bought one here on SNA for a second system and am amazed  at the price performance ratio. It has 73dB gain for MC and handles my 0.14mV output cartridge with no problem at  all. It also has MM. power supply is via a wall wart.

 

For context, I own or haved owned Musical Fidelity, Audion, Pathos Acoustics Audionote, Klyne and Lamm phono equipment in my main system.

[andyr]

2 minutes ago, Tax said:

Good advice given here by previous posters.

 

You may also want to consider a used Electrocompaniet ECP1 if you can find one.

 

I bought one here on SNA for a second system and am amazed  at the price performance ratio. It has 73dB gain for MC and handles my 0.14mV output cartridge with no problem at  all. It also has MM. power supply is via a wall wart.

 

For context, I own or have owned Musical Fidelity, Audion, Pathos Acoustics Audionote, Klyne and Lamm phono equipment in my main system.

 

Verry interesting, Tax!  

 

Gain is one thing (for your very LOMC) but a. what cart is it ... and b. what loading are you using on the ECP1?

 

Also, if by "power supply is via a wall wart" you mean a SMPS supplying Xv DC ... would you be interested in trying an 'isolating transformer + hash filter' between the wall wart and the wall socket?

 

I have always found this improved SQ - PM me if you're interested.

 

Andy

 

[Tax]

9 hours ago, andyr said:

 

Verry interesting, Tax!  

 

Gain is one thing (for your very LOMC) but a. what cart is it ... and b. what loading are you using on the ECP1?

 

Also, if by "power supply is via a wall wart" you mean a SMPS supplying Xv DC ... would you be interested in trying an 'isolating transformer + hash filter' between the wall wart and the wall socket?

 

I have always found this improved SQ - PM me if you're interested.

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy,

 

I bought the ECP1 to use in a second system because I did not want another big box in the lounge. From memory I had asked for some advice on SNA and some members had recommended the ECP1 and I am glad that they did as I am finding it to be a nice no nonsense piece of kit. It is no longer in production but used ones do prop up for sale from time to time.

 

In this system, (which currently comprises the Garrard 401 with Duc's 12inch wooden arm and the FR64s into the ECP1 into a Jadis Orchestra into high efficiency standmount speakers) I have used it with Duc's DL103S and SPU90A, and currently using  a FR1mk3F that has 0.14mV and a FR7f special that is 0.2mV. It has s simple push button that toggles between MC and MM. I believe that it is set internally for 47K and 22pF . I have not tried to modify it but am thinking of building a better power supply for it as it widely acknowledged that this is advantageous. I must pull my finger out and do this. The Commonwealth 12D project has kept me busy.

 

Some more info on the ECP1 through the links below.

 

https://electrocompaniet.com/products/ecp-1-riaa-phono

 

Dagogo review https://www.dagogo.com/electrocompaniet-ecp-1-phono-preamplifier-review/

https://www.audioasylumtrader.com/ca/listing/Phono-Preamp/Electrocompaniet/ECP-1/Audio-Fidelity-Power-Supply-Upgrade/177994

 

 

 

[petng]

My Valab phono is going in classifieds later on today