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This question is posed as a follow up to my post about the use of subwoofers in a 2 channel system; firstly thank you to everyone who contributed to that discussion. Following on from my subwoofer question, I ended up getting two SVS SB-1000  subwoofers, as 2 subs seemed to be recommended to give the best in room response.

 

One of the topics that came up was the use of DSP to help integrate the subs into the music system. Now I confess I had not heard of DSP, I know nothing about DSP, and I am somewhat ignorant when it comes to understanding computers, software, apps and the like and so am looking for any education and advise on this subject.

 

There were a number of opinions on how to connect the subwoofers. I initially tried to connect using RCA from my pre-amp to sub 1 and then RCA out of sub 1 to sub 2. However when playing around and trying to integrate these it did not work very well. 

 

I contacted SVS and they advised that the RCA out on the SB 1000 is high-pass filtered of bass below 80Hz so can not be used to connect to another sub, and that both subs should be connected from the pre-amp one cable per side. 

 

This is how I have now connected the subs, effectively in stereo, which are located L and R between and near to the main speakers, and I have been playing around over the last couple of weeks trying to get them integrated the best I can by ear. I have also been reading a bit about DSP and looking at how to measure and set crossovers etc. but it is all going over my head a bit.

 

My system is mainly based around vinyl although I do have a CD transport and DAC, but I do not stream music. Below is how my system is currently connected.

image.png.f3451c7896e4048d9a34dd9280ef6231.png

So to some of the questions I have running through my mind.

Can DSP only be used in a digital system?

Where in this system would I put DSP?

What sort of unit should I be looking at?

How would I connect it?

How do I use it to blend subs with speakers? Do I use the sub cross overs at all or is it all done via DSP; if so where is the frequency, phase and gain set on the subs?

What do I use to measure the response ?(presume a calibrated mic and some form of software). How is the sound generated and connected to the system?

 

Any and all information and discussion on this subject welcome.

 

thanks

Derek

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That is exactly the right connection for what you are doing now, Derek ... however:

  1. you are obviously running your mains full-range (which is not ideal), and
  2. the only way you can change what you've done and insert a miniDSP unit (or equivalent) into your system ... is if your integrated has 'power amp in' RCAs (as well as the 'preamp out' RCAs which you are using).

Using a DSP unit will enable you to:

  1. roll off the mains, and
  2. introduce some delay on either the subs or the mains, to 'time-align' them.

However, you stated that your two SVS SB-1000  subs have an RCA out which is highpass @ 80Hz.  So if your integrated does have 'power amp in' RCAs ... then you could take interconnects from the subs' RCA outs to the 'power amp ins' ... this would roll off the power amps driving your mains, to match the SVS 'roll-on'.

 

Andy

 

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11 minutes ago, andyr said:

That is exactly the right connection for what you are doing now, Derek ... however:

  1. you are obviously running your mains full-range (which is not ideal), and
  2. the only way you can change what you've done and insert a miniDSP unit (or equivalent) into your system ... is if your integrated has 'power amp in' RCAs (as well as the 'preamp out' RCAs which you are using).

Using a DSP unit will enable you to:

  1. roll off the mains, and
  2. introduce some delay on either the subs or the mains, to 'time-align' them.

However, you stated that your two SVS SB-1000  subs have an RCA out which is highpass @ 80Hz.  So if your integrated does have 'power amp in' RCAs ... then you could take interconnects from the subs' RCA outs to the 'power amp ins' ... this would roll off the power amps driving your mains, to match the SVS 'roll-on'.

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andy,

 

unfortunately my integrated does not have a power amp in, only line level in. Does this effectively mean I can not use any form of DSP in my system as it stands?

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Suggest you look at the Dspeaker.  You can use the Antimode 2.0 with various configurations

http://www.dspeaker.com/en/technology/anti-mode-technology/anti-mode-20-dual-core-connection-examples.shtml

 

Buy from Deep Hz Audio

https://www.deephzaudio.com/DSPeaker product index.html

 

This is probably the easiest way forward for you...

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45 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

Suggest you look at the Dspeaker.  You can use the Antimode 2.0 with various configurations

http://www.dspeaker.com/en/technology/anti-mode-technology/anti-mode-20-dual-core-connection-examples.shtml

 

Buy from Deep Hz Audio

https://www.deephzaudio.com/DSPeaker product index.html

 

This is probably the easiest way forward for you...

Thanks for the link.

 

I have had a quick look at the Antimode 2.0 but I might be missing something. To use with an integrated amp they suggest using power amp in, but as indicated above I don’t have this on my amp.

 

The other option shown is to connect all sources directly to the Antimode and then connect the Antimode to the line in on integrated amp.

 

The only problem I note with this is there is only one set of RCA inputs on the Antimode, but I have 3 sources to connect.

 

Am I missing something or is there a way to connect 3 sources using RCA?

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Posted (edited)

The reason why I suggested the DSPeaker products are because they are easy to set up and use.   There are 2 options for your setup.  One way is to connect all 3 devices using a RCA switch to the Anti-Mode 2.0. Or use the Anti-Mode only with the subs. Alternately, get the Anti-Mode 8033S-II to integrate your subs only.

 

There are DIY options but they will require you to get a USB microphone and a DSP, learn to measure using REW and learn to how to integrate the subs. Examples include the miniDSP 2x4HD or 4x10 HD (actual model to use will need further discussion) But you must be willing to go through a fairly steep learning curve.    Simpler to use the MiniDSP Shd, but there is some learning with Dirac Live.

 

For completeness,  I also use a program called MSO to integrate dual subs, but that takes you off towards the deepest end. 

Edited by Snoopy8
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I'm lost in the direction the advice here seems to be taking.

 

The SVS sub-woofers both have in-built DSP, no? You don't need another black box to be running a DSP.

 

Your starting point would be:

 

Operate the main speakers full range. Somebody above suggested running the main speakers full range is not ideal. I disagree with that.

Send a full-range line level signal to the sub-woofers and DSP the sub-woofers and the main speakers together. Obviously the DSP will have no effect on the main speakers, but it will adjust the output response of the sub-woofers to blend them with the main speakers and the room.

A point to experiment with is whether both sub-woofers receive exactly the same line level signal, or operate them discrete mono.

Do not be too concerned with DSP. The most important adjustments are setting the sub-woofer level and phase (assuming you don't have much choice where to place the sub-woofers in the room). My sub-woofer has a high-end network enabled DSP and the only setting that I've adjusted is level.

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2 hours ago, DT999 said:

Thanks Andy,

 

unfortunately my integrated does not have a power amp in, only line level in. Does this effectively mean I can not use any form of DSP in my system as it stands?

 

I believe so - but I don't know the DSPeaker product that Snoop is recommending.  :(

 

Andy

 

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33 minutes ago, brodricj said:

I'm lost in the direction the advice here seems to be taking.

 

The SVS sub-woofers both have in-built DSP, no? You don't need another black box to be running a DSP.

 

Your starting point would be:

 

Operate the main speakers full range. Somebody above suggested running the main speakers full range is not ideal. I disagree with that.

Send a full-range line level signal to the sub-woofers and DSP the sub-woofers and the main speakers together. Obviously the DSP will have no effect on the main speakers, but it will adjust the output response of the sub-woofers to blend them with the main speakers and the room.

A point to experiment with is whether both sub-woofers receive exactly the same line level signal, or operate them discrete mono.

Do not be too concerned with DSP. The most important adjustments are setting the sub-woofer level and phase (assuming you don't have much choice where to place the sub-woofers in the room). My sub-woofer has a high-end network enabled DSP and the only setting that I've adjusted is level.

The SVS sb 1000 does not have DSP ( the new sb 1000 pro does,) so no my subs do not have built in DSP.

 

I have been trying to set the cross overs, phase and gain all by ear, and while I have improved things with minor adjustments getting the balance right is troublesome.

 

I wondered if DSP might help, but it looks to be difficult to integrate in my system. 

 

 

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18 hours ago, DT999 said:

How would I connect it?

 

First, you should reconsider how you have your system connected already.

 

Read page 9 of your use manual.   See that a" stereo" signal (both left and right)  should be sent from the preamp output to the SW.

 

 

 

If you put a DSP in somewhere.... then it might be that you run the stereo(LR) signal to the DSP, and then mono line level connections to each SW.

 

 

 

Quote

So to some of the questions I have running through my mind.

Can DSP only be used in a digital system?

 

Yes.  "Digital" signal processing.

 

But.... DSPs can have analogue inputs.    Internally the signal is converted from analogue to digital.... and then from digital back to analogue.   This process can be completely transparent - it does not need to impact sound quality.

 

 

Quote

Where in this system would I put DSP?

 

This is can be a complicated question..... but without changing your system around there are probably only a couple of choices.

 

In between your preout and subwoofers is the simplest....   but it means no filtering of your main speakers, which may or may not be a big problem.

 

 

Quote

What sort of unit should I be looking at?

 

I would recommend a unit which can do all the calibration for you.   Such as one with "Dirac Live" or similar (DSPeaker, is another).

 

Otherwise it's a bit like buying a set of sockets and spanner to improve the performance of your car (so to speak).   It is just as easy (if not more likely) to make the performance go backwards..... or just be different, but not "better".

 

Quote

How do I use it to blend subs with speakers? Do I use the sub cross overs at all or is it all done via DSP; if so where is the frequency, phase and gain set on the subs?

 

Both options are possible.

 

Either, feed a stereo signal into the (each) subwoofer(s) .... leave the sub crossover on ... and account for the action of the subwoofer crossover in the DSP.

 

Or.... Feed the stereo signal into the DSP.... and then a mono signal to each SW from the DSP... into the LFE input.   Turn the knob to LFE (disables crossover, phase, etc.) ... and do the crossover in the DSP configuration.

 

 

A DSP system which explains all of this, and guides you on how to set it up (and automagically does the calibration for you), is essential, for almost everyone.

 

Quote

What do I use to measure the response ?(presume a calibrated mic and some form of software). How is the sound generated and connected to the system?

 

The DSP will (can) come with a microphone  (any which do the "calibration for you", will have a microphone).

 

Some DSPs need you to run an app on the computer or tablet PC, that is connected to the DSP (while setting it up).

 

Edited by davewantsmoore
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13 hours ago, DT999 said:

unfortunately my integrated does not have a power amp in, only line level in. Does this effectively mean I can not use any form of DSP in my system as it stands?

 

No... it just means that the way he suggested won't work  (which is running the signal out of the integrated to the subwoofers... and then back to the integrated).

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10 hours ago, DT999 said:

The SVS sb 1000 does not have DSP ( the new sb 1000 pro does,) so no my subs do not have built in DSP.

This would have been one of the easiest ways.

 

10 hours ago, DT999 said:

I have been trying to set the cross overs, phase and gain all by ear

 

This is extremely difficult... if not impossible, to do properly.

 

10 hours ago, DT999 said:

I wondered if DSP might help, but it looks to be difficult to integrate in my system. 

 

Not at all.

 

It's not ideal from a preamp output ...... although it is often done.

 

As mentoned, the DSPeaker 8033 is a neat/simple choice.

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13 hours ago, DT999 said:

Thanks for the link.

 

I have had a quick look at the Antimode 2.0 but I might be missing something. To use with an integrated amp they suggest using power amp in, but as indicated above I don’t have this on my amp.

 

Yes.   To correct your main speakers.... you will need "power amp input" on your integrated amp..

 

....  OR, a more "complicated" (or at least "bigger change") way ......   you will need to integrate a DSP earlier in your chain - eg. between your CD player and DAC (and then connect the phonos to inputs on the DSP)..... this will require a DSP with more inputs, and with volume control - so you would adjust the system volume at the DSP (as opposed to on your integrated amp). 

 

Without changing your integrated amp (or going earlier in the chain) .... You could just apply DSP to the subwoofers.

 

The DSPeaker 8033 is what you'd use for that.

 

 

 

13 hours ago, DT999 said:

Am I missing something or is there a way to connect 3 sources using RCA?

No... You would need a different DSP with more inputs.

 

AND... as above, you would then be neeing to adjust the system volume at the DSP box .... and not at your integrated amp.

 

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13 hours ago, DT999 said:

Thanks for the link.

 

I have had a quick look at the Antimode 2.0 but I might be missing something. To use with an integrated amp they suggest using power amp in, but as indicated above I don’t have this on my amp.

 

The other option shown is to connect all sources directly to the Antimode and then connect the Antimode to the line in on integrated amp.

 

The only problem I note with this is there is only one set of RCA inputs on the Antimode, but I have 3 sources to connect.

 

Am I missing something or is there a way to connect 3 sources using RCA?

 

Ah.... OK, hold on.   I just read the manual for the Antimode II.

 

All four analog outputs (XLR and RCA) are individually active.

 

So... how it would be possible for your to use it is:

 

 

  • Connect your two phonos to an analogue switch box (you would need to buy this).
  • Connect the output of the analogue switch box to the analogue input of the anitmode.
  • Connect your cdplayer to the antimode using SPDIF
  • Connect the XLR or RCA outputs of the anitmode to your amplifier input
  • Connect the XLR or RCA outputs of the antimode one to each of your subwoofers input  (probably LFE, but you'd have to read the manual further to see which is best)
  • Set your integrated amplifier volume to a sensible setting (you'd have to test this) .... and don't touch it.... from now on you will control the input dswitching and system volume from the anitmode.
  • Run the anitmode calibration... this will apply correction to your entire system (mains and subwoofer, and crossover)
  • The anti mode analogue intput is your vinyl.   To select which one, you use the analogue switch box

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

The reason why I suggested the DSPeaker products are because they are easy to set up and use.   There are 2 options for your setup.  One way is to connect all 3 devices using a RCA switch to the Anti-Mode 2.0. Or use the Anti-Mode only with the subs. Alternately, get the Anti-Mode 8033S-II to integrate your subs only.

Snoop

thanks very much for your suggestion, I have looked into this more and along with the information from Dave the Anti-Mode 8033 certainly looks to be viable.

 

 

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2 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

 

Without changing your integrated amp (or going earlier in the chain) .... You could just apply DSP to the subwoofers.

 

The DSPeaker 8033 is what you'd use for that.

 

Dave

 

firstly thanks very much for taking the time to extensively answer all my questions and for going as far as looking up the Antimode manuals to assist, very much appreciated.

 

What I have taken away from the information provided by everyone so far is that it is difficult but not impossible add some form of DSP to my set up. Your final solution might work the best as it would appear to address the mains as well as subs, as alluded to by Andy, but as a complete beginner in this area I like the idea of a simple 'plug and play' type solution that the DSPeaker 8033 seems to provide as in it does the calibration automatically and appears the most easy to install.

 

I realise that this effectively would do what the DSP built into the SB 1000 pro subwoofers does and will automatically adjust the subs to integrate with full frequency mains; for those considering SVS subs in the future I suggest getting the new Pro versions with this built in DSP.

 

From the  DSPeaker web site, this is how I see the unit fitting in. RCA L&R out of pre-amp to the Anti-Mode 8033S, then one cable L&R to each sub, with setting to LFE on each and one 180' out of phase with the other. Calibrate using the DSPeaker Antimode and then sey gain levels on subs to match mains.

 

image.png.66c16e16caa3e1d772bfeb2a0e3c3029.png

 

Thanks again to all who have contributed.

 

Cheers

Derek

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23 minutes ago, DT999 said:

Snoop

thanks very much for your suggestion, I have looked into this more and along with the information from Dave the Anti-Mode 8033 certainly looks to be viable.

Most welcome.  It is a good solution for people starting out.

 

10 minutes ago, DT999 said:

I realise that this effectively would do what the DSP built into the SB 1000 pro subwoofers does and will automatically adjust the subs to integrate with full frequency mains; for those considering SVS subs in the future I suggest getting the new Pro versions with this built in DSP.

Not quite.  Having a sub with built in DSP is not enough.  Often, the DSP is limited, especially at the budget end.   More importantly, you will need to get a USB microphone, learn to measure with REW and then learn how integrate the subs.  The 8033 guides you through the process and does the integration for you...

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2 hours ago, DT999 said:

What I have taken away from the information provided by everyone so far is that it is difficult but not impossible add some form of DSP to my set up.

 

I wouldn't say "difficult" ... but it important to get it right, otherwise it will sound "bad".

 

2 hours ago, DT999 said:

Your final solution might work the best as it would appear to address the mains as well as subs, as alluded to by Andy, but as a complete beginner in this area I like the idea of a simple 'plug and play' type solution that the DSPeaker 8033 seems to provide as in it does the calibration automatically and appears the most easy to install.

 

The other dspeaker model (antimode 2?) does the calibration automatically too.

 

2 hours ago, DT999 said:

From the  DSPeaker web site, this is how I see the unit fitting in. RCA L&R out of pre-amp to the Anti-Mode 8033S, then one cable L&R to each sub, with setting to LFE on each and one 180' out of phase with the other.

 

Yes.

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1 hour ago, tripitaka said:

Some very generous experts on this forum!

Hopefully OP is happier now 🙂

Indeed.

I have found people on this forum very helpful, accommodating and not in any way condescending for those with less knowledge, unlike some other forums. 

 

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On 12/05/2021 at 1:18 PM, DT999 said:

with setting to LFE on each and one 180' out of phase with the other

 

On 12/05/2021 at 3:34 PM, davewantsmoore said:

Yes.

@davewantsmoore - why do the subs need to be set 180' out of phase?

I'm in awe that you read the instructions...and I'm not familiar with Anti-Mode, so I may be missing something, but wouldn't you start with the subs in phase?

 

Mike

 

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5 minutes ago, almikel said:

why do the subs need to be set 180' out of phase?

ahh - I looked at their website for the 8033...that's the only option... :)

A_c383e4fac7.jpg.c30be680cae5c5315629ac04512f19bb.jpg

 

Mike

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On 12/05/2021 at 10:28 AM, davewantsmoore said:

 

Ah.... OK, hold on.   I just read the manual for the Antimode II.

 

All four analog outputs (XLR and RCA) are individually active.

 

So... how it would be possible for your to use it is:

 

 

  • Connect your two phonos to an analogue switch box (you would need to buy this).
  • Connect the output of the analogue switch box to the analogue input of the anitmode.
  • Connect your cdplayer to the antimode using SPDIF
  • Connect the XLR or RCA outputs of the anitmode to your amplifier input
  • Connect the XLR or RCA outputs of the antimode one to each of your subwoofers input  (probably LFE, but you'd have to read the manual further to see which is best)
  • Set your integrated amplifier volume to a sensible setting (you'd have to test this) .... and don't touch it.... from now on you will control the input dswitching and system volume from the anitmode.
  • Run the anitmode calibration... this will apply correction to your entire system (mains and subwoofer, and crossover)
  • The anti mode analogue intput is your vinyl.   To select which one, you use the analogue switch box

If you want some DSP control of your subs and mains, I think this ^ is a good option - I couldn't find it, but I assume it comes with a remote, or an app to control volume using an Android/IOS device?

 

I moved to a DEQX based DSP 3 way active setup from an active analog 3 way setup a long time ago (> 10 years)...so I'm a bit of a luddite on the latest DSP innovations such as DIRAC...

 

I love DSP, and I consider it an essential part of any system, but it's not a "fix all" thing - it needs to be used in conjunction with speaker/sub placement and room treatment.

 

I regard DSP/speaker & sub positioning/room treatment all equally important in achieving "great in room bass".

 

The more rigid your room boundaries are, the harder "great in room bass" is to achieve - as the bass stays in the room bouncing off the walls taking too long to decay...

...DSP/EQ can help ameliorate this, but an approach using DSP and speaker/sub positioning and room treatment will yield better results.

 

On 11/05/2021 at 11:24 PM, DT999 said:

I have been trying to set the cross overs, phase and gain all by ear

 

On 12/05/2021 at 9:56 AM, davewantsmoore said:

This is extremely difficult... if not impossible, to do properly.

^this

On 12/05/2021 at 1:35 PM, Snoopy8 said:

More importantly, you will need to get a USB microphone, learn to measure with REW and then learn how integrate the subs.

^and this

 

You can't integrate subs well by ear.

I would suggest getting a measurement rig:

  • a measurement mic
  • a decent mic stand with a boom so you can poke the mic into corners/wherever required
  • a laptop running REW (REW is free)

Even if you let your DSP devices set EQ automatically you can still measure the result to see if it's "better"/smoother etc

 

cheers

Mike

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9 hours ago, almikel said:

I would suggest getting a measurement rig:

  • a measurement mic
  • a decent mic stand with a boom so you can poke the mic into corners/wherever required
  • a laptop running REW (REW is free)

Even if you let your DSP devices set EQ automatically you can still measure the result to see if it's "better"/smoother etc

 

I think this is a bad suggestion for most people.

 

Get a system which offers you a good outcome (automagic) and follow the instructions.

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11 hours ago, almikel said:

 

@davewantsmoore - why do the subs need to be set 180' out of phase?

 

The device has two outputs.   The outputs are identical, except one is +180deg.

 

You could also just use one of the outputs with a Y cable.

 

11 hours ago, almikel said:

I'm in awe that you read the instructions

Just a 60 second skim read of the manual (which took 30 seconds to find).

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On 14/05/2021 at 1:08 AM, almikel said:

I would suggest getting a measurement rig

 

On 14/05/2021 at 10:19 AM, davewantsmoore said:

 

I think this is a bad suggestion for most people.

 

Get a system which offers you a good outcome (automagic) and follow the instructions.

 

Fair call...although I would say having a measurement rig is not a bad thing, so you can see what the "automagic" is doing...

 

On 14/05/2021 at 10:20 AM, davewantsmoore said:

 

You could also just use one of the outputs with a Y cable.

 

but wouldn't this remove some of the "automagic" capability of the device?

I'm assuming the 8033 can adjust the outputs independently (EQ/delay)?...maybe not

 

cheers

Mike

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22 hours ago, almikel said:

but wouldn't this remove some of the "automagic" capability of the device?

I'm assuming the 8033 can adjust the outputs independently (EQ/delay)?...maybe not

 

No.... The two outputs are identical signal (except one is +180deg)

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On 16/05/2021 at 4:38 PM, davewantsmoore said:

No.... The two outputs are identical signal (except one is +180deg)

much less "automagic" than I would have expected for 2 sub outputs :(...

...I pity the unfortunate person that installs a DSPeaker 8033 and connects 2 subs close to each other 180 degrees out of phase and wonders why the bass is so poor due to suckout!

 

IMHO multiple subs require independent control of EQ and delay for best "in room" bass at the listening position - automagically or manually.

 

cheers,

Mike

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10 hours ago, almikel said:

much less "automagic" than I would have expected for 2 sub outputs :(...

...I pity the unfortunate person that installs a DSPeaker 8033 and connects 2 subs close to each other 180 degrees out of phase and wonders why the bass is so poor due to suckout!

 

The manual (obviously?!) says to only do this if one of the subwoofers has it's polarity inverted (eg. by turning it's phase dial to 180deg).

 

They also say you could use a Y cable too (from just one output, to two subwoofers)

 

10 hours ago, almikel said:

IMHO multiple subs require independent control of EQ

 

Require is a very strong word.

 

It can help .... but I would be often looking to correct the combined response just as much as the individual response.

 

It depends on a lot of things.   Many differences you get between two seperate subwoofers in a room, are not things which should be corrected for using EQ.... and if any correction is done, the combined response would be better.

 

Having the ability to correct both would always be superior (if not misused), of course.   But that's a more expensive device (or two of these 8033)

 

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Hi Dave @davewantsmoore

 

On 17/05/2021 at 11:29 PM, almikel said:

IMHO multiple subs require independent control of EQ

 

On 18/05/2021 at 9:46 AM, davewantsmoore said:

Require is a very strong word.

fair call...

 

but did you deliberately cut the "delay" bit of your quote of my post?...

 

My post:

On 17/05/2021 at 11:29 PM, almikel said:

IMHO multiple subs require independent control of EQ and delay for best "in room" bass at the listening position

 

then you add

On 18/05/2021 at 9:46 AM, davewantsmoore said:

but I would be often looking to correct the combined response just as much as the individual response

 

My interest is due to my DSP solution (DEQX) only providing global EQ for subs.

I can set individual delays to each sub, but not individual EQ to each sub.

 

In my case I only run a single sub, so it's irrelevant...until I add another sub...

 

...is the DEQX approach of global sub EQ with individual sub delay control sufficient?

 

cheers,

Mike

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17 hours ago, almikel said:

 @davewantsmoore

 

My interest is due to my DSP solution (DEQX) only providing global EQ for subs.

I can set individual delays to each sub, but not individual EQ to each sub.

 

...is the DEQX approach of global sub EQ with individual sub delay control sufficient?

 

Sorry Mike, I'll butt in. 

 

Sufficient is a strong word too but IMO it is good enough for mono bass signals. Having said that I've recently started using MSO which of course allows individual EQ to each subwoofer. I wouldn't say the improvement was day and night but it was there. 

 

Where global EQ is potentially not sufficient IMO is for EQing your left and right speakers where only they are mainly contributing and global EQ does allow for individual EQ to left and right. Especially for frequencies above about 100Hz where noticeable stereo separation might start occurring. 

Edited by Satanica
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18 hours ago, almikel said:

but did you deliberately cut the "delay" bit of your quote of my post?...

 

Not really.... most subwoofers have a phase knob....  but it's really only a big deal to get the crossover summing better (it's complicated).

 

The point is that if you throw a bunch of subwoofers into a room (position them optimally for their combined response), and only correct their combined response... you can still do quite a good job.

 

18 hours ago, almikel said:

...is the DEQX approach of global sub EQ with individual sub delay control sufficient?

Sufficient is a thorny word.

 

Individual EQ is a tool that can be very helpful, or harmful depending on how it is (mis)used.

 

A lot of the bumps and dips you see in the response can be sorted out with positioning and multi-sub interaction.

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29 minutes ago, Satanica said:

Where global EQ is potentially not sufficient IMO is for EQing your left and right speakers where only they are mainly contributing and global EQ does allow for individual EQ to left and right. Especially for frequencies above about 100Hz where noticeable stereo separation might start occurring. 

 

(For the high-end / ultimately) ..... I would be extremely careful intentionally providing different EQ to a L and R speaker....  the issue should be traced back to its source first.

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1 hour ago, davewantsmoore said:

 

(For the high-end / ultimately) ..... I would be extremely careful intentionally providing different EQ to a L and R speaker....  the issue should be traced back to its source first.

 

Yes I agree to be cautious, especially if you don't REALLY know what you're doing (like me). I was referring to only EQ'ing bass frequencies say up to 300Hz.

 

Although, I do full frequency correction using Dirac Live based on 9 measurements and setting a target curve allowing it to do whatever it decides. 

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