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NBN unreliability - quick disconnects


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I haven't paid much attention to it before, but my NBN connection often disconnects, then immediately (minutes later) reconnects.    ADSL never did this.  It's quite frequent, at least once a day.    I get a good connection in terms of speed.  ADSL was always fast too, I believe I am fairly close to an exchange.   I wonder if it's NBN playing about changing and rebooting things at their end?

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Posted (edited)

I was speaking to an Aussie Broadband technician a while ago about my dissatisfaction with my provider at the time. Whilst he said that many connection issues are down to the provider sharing bandwidth, it is to be expected that the NBN will drop out - quick disconnects - during the day, some up to about 5 minutes. And, that it takes 5 reported prolonged drop out events  ( longer than to be expected)  duration before NBN Co will investigate the line.

 

I've been happy witj Aussie , but there are short drop outs of the NBN on an ongoing basis - nothing like the complete outage for hours from my previous provider.

 

I know there are dropouts  as all traffic on the work PC at home is tunneled through a VPN, and will stop traffic if connection is lost. After a disconnect event the VPN will attempt a number of reconnects before giving up. When I get home from working onsite, the work PC at home is nearly always disconnected.

Edited by Niktech
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2 hours ago, Niktech said:

I know there are dropouts  as all traffic on the work PC at home is tunneled through a VPN, and will stop traffic if connection is lost. After a disconnect event the VPN will attempt a number of reconnects before giving up. When I get home from working onsite, the work PC at home is nearly always disconnected.

 

 

Well I know it's extremely annoying to be halfway through something to have the connection die on you - more than once a day.  That's such a backward step.

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Posted (edited)

This is part of the reason I have not jumped into full on Streaming in a big way because even playing free Spotify I get little drop outs (glitches) here and there - I think my ADSL2 was better to be honest.

Edited by April Snow
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1 minute ago, April Snow said:

This is part of the reason I have not jumped into full on Streaming in a big way because even playing free Spotify I get little drop outs (glitches) here and there - I think my ADSL2 was better to be honest.

 

 

Actually that's not the type of dropout I meant.  I meant disconnects, where the connection light on the modem goes out, then flashes for a minute to re-connect.  You don't hear a glitch - the music completely stops and gives an error that the connection has been lost. :( 

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5 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

 

 

Actually that's not the type of dropout I meant.  I meant disconnects, where the connection light on the modem goes out, then flashes for a minute to re-connect.  You don't hear a glitch - the music completely stops and gives an error that the connection has been lost. :( 

Yes I have had that too in the past - it is awful...............but admit that was more with ADSL2 - my ISP told me it was them resetting things their end...............??

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5 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

 

 

Actually that's not the type of dropout I meant.  I meant disconnects, where the connection light on the modem goes out, then flashes for a minute to re-connect.  You don't hear a glitch - the music completely stops and gives an error that the connection has been lost. :( 

I have experienced the same, but with ADSL. I thought it could be one of the means the ADSL provider uses to "shape" my usage.

 

Anyhow, I have a booking with the NBN today for the switch over - I have only a few months left for doing this, and I am doing this now before prices go up in the new financial year.

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8 minutes ago, April Snow said:

Yes I have had that too in the past - it is awful...............but admit that was more with ADSL2 - my ISP told me it was them resetting things their end...............??

 

I'll bet that they were.  So inconsiderate of them, but, if it's just managing bandwidth between customers, the damn technology should be able to be managed without the need for disconnects.

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21 minutes ago, April Snow said:

Yes I have had that too in the past - it is awful...............but admit that was more with ADSL2 - my ISP told me it was them resetting things their end...............??

I think they were honest with you this time, for they very probably need to reload the changed configurations of a device, forcing everyone to reconnect; and if they have multiple change requests, or if they have missed something, they would have to reload multiple times in a given period of time. One can only hope that they do this efficiently and have the customer in mind while they are doing it.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, PositivelyMusicallyGeared said:

I think they were honest with you this time, for they very probably need to reload the changed configurations of a device, forcing everyone to reconnect; and if they have multiple change requests, or if they have missed something, they would have to reload multiple times in a given period of time. One can only hope that they do this efficiently and have the customer in mind while they are doing it.

Yes they told me they do it several times a day but most of the time customers would not notice and I checked my Internet connection times on line through their website and they were in fact right - very rarely are you connected for a full 24 hours without a disconnect/reconnect periods but that was with ADSL2 at that time I complained - I just checked my NBN connections and see it is much better - but I do still get glitches (sounds like skips on a CD sometimes) when streaming Spotify over wifi on and off.

Edited by April Snow
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16 minutes ago, April Snow said:

but I do still get glitches (sounds like skips on a CD sometimes) when streaming Spotify over wifi on and off.

 

I think that's more likely a Spotify, or local network issue,  if your NBN normally has reasonable speed.   Does Spotify have a buffer you can increase (or some downstream DAC you might be using)?

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May want to check your modem. Sometimes the hardware (if it comes free with your internet provider) is cheap quality and fails every few years.  
I am onto the 4th modem in 4 years. First two dead on arrival, and 3 weeks ago, my NBN keeps dropping out every day etc, so I knew exactly what to do, I rang my provider to send a new replacement modem to replace the 3rd modem after 4 years of usage. I am with company starts with T.  Ever since the new modem, no issues. 
 

Funnily enough the good quality modem that I paid personally (I use 2 modems) still going fine after 6 years…

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16 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

 

and they just do that, no questions asked?

They asked me to stay on the call to check a few things (there is a troubleshoot list they go through with you).  I was patient and followed her troubleshoot instructions one by one. She also found out my modem is 4 years old model, apparently that’s ancient technology, and she told me there’s a newer model. 
 

It didn’t take long for the lady on the call to decide to send a new modem, just in case it is hardware and not the fault of NBN Co.  And both she and I was correct. It was the faulty modem!

 

edit: T company sent new modem as warranty replacement free of charge

Edited by att23
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On 02/05/2021 at 11:38 AM, aussievintage said:

I wonder if it's NBN playing about changing and rebooting things at their end?

 

What technology are you connected by.    If you're still connected by DSL .... but a higher frequency than ADSL..... it is prone to disconnected if your house wiring isn't super clean .... or more rarely, if there's issues with the wiring in your street.

 

NBN considers that DSL services which disconnect and immediately reconnect less than 5 times in 24 hours are working correctly... this is similar to what was standard for ADSL services.

 

On 03/05/2021 at 6:25 AM, Niktech said:

some up to about 5 minutes

 

No.  It needs to immediately resync (that can take up to a minute to maybe even two if it is slow) ... but 5 minutes is something else.  Log a fault (provider being lazy or uninformed).

 

 

On 03/05/2021 at 6:25 AM, Niktech said:

I've been happy witj Aussie

 

Dropouts not an Aussie issue (changing ISP won't solve) ..... it's either the NBN infrastructure or the customer equipment/wiring

 

... but it IS aussie responsibility to help you resolve it.  So where letting your down is with the "5 minute" bit.

 

On 03/05/2021 at 6:25 AM, Niktech said:

After a disconnect event the VPN will attempt a number of reconnects before giving up.

 

Thats up to you to reconfigure your software so it waits, or tries more, etc.

 

On 03/05/2021 at 9:10 AM, aussievintage said:

Well I know it's extremely annoying to be halfway through something to have the connection die on you - more than once a day.  That's such a backward step.

 

Log a fault.

 

NBN will be able to investigate and tell you what the issue is.    ie. they might report it looks like it's in their network, bu they won't be fixing it (if it's in spec)

 

.... or they might tell you that they can see that the issue is on your side (they can tell this by "looking down the line" .... they can kinda see into your house, so to speak).

 

On 03/05/2021 at 9:40 AM, April Snow said:

I get little drop outs (glitches) here and there

This is your ISP issue.... get them to help you resolve it, or move (ISP).

 

On 03/05/2021 at 9:54 AM, PositivelyMusicallyGeared said:

I have experienced the same, but with ADSL. I thought it could be one of the means the ADSL provider uses to "shape" my usage.

 

It isn't.

 

On 03/05/2021 at 9:59 AM, aussievintage said:

I'll bet that they were.  So inconsiderate of them, but, if it's just managing bandwidth between customers, the damn technology should be able to be managed without the need for disconnects.

 

Yes... ISPs can slow down your connection with your causing it to disconnect.

 

In fact, when it "disconnects" at the line level (ie. it needs to "resync") - the ISP cannot even cause that if they wanted to (well, not in any easy/practical way anyways).

 

 

On 03/05/2021 at 10:18 AM, PositivelyMusicallyGeared said:

for they very probably need to reload the changed configurations of a device, forcing everyone to reconnect; and if they have multiple change requests, or if they have missed something, they would have to reload multiple times in a given period of time.

No this would be very very unusual.

 

Causing the DSL line itself to disconnect (if this is indeed what is happening) is not something the ISP can do without requesting NBN do it....

 

I suspect the ISP technician confused you somehow (or didn't understand themselves what they were talking about).

 

Moons ago.... I used the manage the technical support department for an ISP, and can tell you that is not at all as uncommon as you might think   ;) 

 

18 hours ago, aussievintage said:

and they just do that, no questions asked?

 

It might surprise you to know that it can be cheaper to do this, than it can be to do any kind of troubleshooting with the customer, or fault logging with upstream providers (eg. NBN).

 

Think about the per hour rate of an ISP tech, vs. the wholesale cost of a modem for an ISP vs. the tiny margins ISPs make from a customer per month.

 

Some modems are junk .... some lose their configuration ..... and sometimes they just want to get the customer off the phone.

 

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1 hour ago, davewantsmoore said:

What technology are you connected by.    If you're still connected by DSL .... but a higher frequency than ADSL..... it is prone to disconnected if your house wiring isn't super clean .... or more rarely, if there's issues with the wiring in your street.

 

NBN considers that DSL services which disconnect and immediately reconnect less than 5 times in 24 hours are working correctly... this is similar to what was standard for ADSL services.

 

Yeah, just NBN via copper wires (FTTN).   

 

Actually I rebooted the modem this morning and I think it's been much better.  I saw a config item to auto-reboot at a preset time each day - might be a good option for me.

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6 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

Actually I rebooted the modem this morning and I think it's been much better. 

 

It can actually help in certain situations for DSL disconnects (for a specific reason that's a bit more in depoth than simply the good odl, "have you tried turnign it off and back on again").... but it's not a great solution.

 

Log a fault with your ISP.... NBN should be able to give their opinion and then you'll know.

 

If NBN tell you that your wiring is sub optimal ... then you know what to focus on.

Edited by davewantsmoore
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Actually, changing the provider to Aussie did solve the extended outage problem I was having. However, some issues are still to be expected as the copper in my suburb also isn't top notch. It was laid a long time ago.

 

 

 

In relation to the VPN the number of reconnects attempts is not configurable in settings otherwise I would have already done that 🙂.

Edited by Niktech
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55 minutes ago, Niktech said:

Actually, changing the provider to Aussie did solve the extended outage problem I was having

 

Oh, sorry - I misunderstood your issue then

 

(I thought you were saying it was caused by a line/infrastructure issue..... not your previous ISP actually just having full-on outages).

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My NBN is via FTTN.

We've had numerous issues with the copper lines and had a technician tell me on more than one occasion, that the copper line technology would continue to cause problems until it is replaced by fibre technology. 

Ironically, the T company used an "insulation and water resistant gel" to alleviate corrosion and water intrusion issues of the copper wires.........years later they discovered that the gel was actually corrosive to copper and also prone to dry out in time and be ineffective in insulating! 

I'm surprised that there hasn't been a class action lawsuit against the company (and government) that continues to provide us sub-standard wiring.

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18 minutes ago, Archie McCafferty said:

My NBN is via FTTN.

We've had numerous issues with the copper lines and had a technician tell me on more than one occasion, that the copper line technology would continue to cause problems until it is replaced by fibre technology. 

 

It'll do 25mbps, which is what it was designed for.    If yours isn't, make sure you get it fixed.

 

Almost all of it will do 100mbps, soon.

 

.... and by bringing smaller "fibre connected nodes" down the street.... there's little reason to think that many many (!!!!) gigabits per second aren't possible.

 

18 minutes ago, Archie McCafferty said:

I'm surprised that there hasn't been a class action lawsuit against the company (and government) that continues to provide us sub-standard wiring.

 

Not quite sure under what law that would be.

 

There's not even a "law" which says you should get your 25mbps NBN (the minimum design spec requested by the govt).....  but you will get that if you (if you're not) and you log a fault and get your ISP to follow up.

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In terms of what NBN can deliver, I've been with iinet NBN for 6 years (FTTP) 100/40 Mbs. Installation was completed a few months before the new Govt switched to FTTN :thumb: 

 

In that time there have been occasional outages (up to a few hours) and in the early days there were bandwidth issues that slowed speeds in peak but that was fixed and since then even peak hour speeds have been pretty much stable. I have been WFH for the last year with several devices connected and (unless these things happen in the dead of night) I have had zero issues.

 

A few months back I was informed that for a 6 month (trial?) period they were doubling my speed to 200Mbs :) I have confirmed on real world downloads that my speeds have in fact doubled to 20+ MBs on average. I was surprised, however, to see my latest speedtest results :o

nbn.jpg

Edited by lemarquis
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1 hour ago, lemarquis said:

In that time there have been occasional outages (up to a few hours) and in the early days there were bandwidth issues that slowed speeds in peak but that was fixed and since then even peak hour speeds have been pretty much stable. I have been WFH for the last year with several devices connected and (unless these things happen in the dead of night) I have had zero issues.

 

This is your ISP... not NBN.  ;) 

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11 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

 

This is your ISP... not NBN.  ;) 

Quite. And I'm sure FTTP vs FTTN has nothing to do with it ;) 

 

Let's change the Topic name to 

 

NBN is fine, just get a better ISP :D 

Edited by lemarquis
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15 minutes ago, lemarquis said:

Quite. And I'm sure FTTP vs FTTN has nothing to do with it ;)

 

No, it doesn't.

 

"bandwidth issues that slowed speeds in peak but that was fixed and since then even peak hour speeds have been pretty much stable. "

 

This is your ISP.... it isn't "in terms of what NBN can deliver".

 

If you look at the stats for the NBN it is only rare/corner cases that any infrastrcuture issues impact on what the end user sees..... and it's an even rarer subset (almost zero) where the NBN impact results in the outcome you describe (slowed speeds, congestion, etc.)

 

15 minutes ago, lemarquis said:

Let's change the Topic name to 

NBN is fine, just get a better ISP :D 

 

But in the vast majority (understatement) of cases.... it is reality.

 

 

Some corner cases, which don't fit that:

 

1. Congestion at the NBN level on certain FW and satellite areas.

2. Small number of FTTN services which can't work properly at the design speed of 12 or 25mbps.

3. Some areas of HFC and FTTC where there's been specific network faults.

 

... and none of them cause what you're talking about... and in theses cases (especially 2, IME) ISPs are the ones causing most of the excasserbation for customers by not following through the faults process correctly... and working to the services into compliance.

 

Would it be better if ISPs weren't responsible (given they don't have much money to provide support/faults) .... perhaps (but also kinda unworkable, given the ISP is the customer of NBN) ......  but it is the way it is.... and "get a better ISP" is the realility if youre having a problem.

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21 minutes ago, lemarquis said:

That's what I said.

Your sarcasm tripped me up.

 

 

At the risk of being too serious, again.... it's a message many people need, too much blame at the feet of "NBN".

 

If we don't like the way it's "designed" .... then look to the govt.    If you don't like "what's happening to you", then your ISP should help you, or you should replace them.

 

Compared to many ways it could be, these choices are a hard won luxury.

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