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Introducing The Amazing Compact Disc | 1982


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Introducing The Amazing Compact Disc | 1982

 

It's unfortunate that we never got to hear that dynamic range that the CD promised.

And to think that one day the CD will be replaced by putting the music onto a silicon chip!

 

 

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Sound from CD can be pretty good. People confuse poor recording, compression, poor mixing and bad Mastering with a fault or deficiency of the actual medium. With vinyl, you have all of the a

I do not agree totally with this comment - buying a physical (CD or Vinyl) you pay once and own it forever if you wish to keep it that long.   I rather own than rent my music making other pe

Please help me out here.   Can anyone tell me why this debate is happening again?   Can anyone tell me what good will be achieved by yet another format war?   Can anyone

I remember when CDs were the new fangled technology, and it all seemed so cutting edge. Now streaming is all the rage.

 

Funnily enough, it became pretty accepted that you could get a very high quality CD player (like a Naim CD555), add good amplification, and there is your system. Now, you can have a master clock, DAC, streamer and network server, if you want to go that route.

 

Yes, I know you can just have a streamer with inbuilt DAC (single box source) hooked up by ethernet cable or wireless and streaming directly from the internet. Not counting NAS as that's technically another box. Still, I kind of like the simplicity of a CD player, assuming the inbuilt DAC is good enough for the purpose.

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There is obviously still plenty of CD aficionados out there as most manufacturers have a CD Player or Transport in their product line-up.

 

Basic $300 units all the way up to $100,000 boutique spinners. 

 

Along with the CD, Philips also invented some of the most revered mechanisms that are still much sought after today, not to mention the also well renowned TDA1541 double crown DAC chip. 

 

 

Edited by aasza
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:yawn:

Edited by rantan
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With the development of the UHQCD manufacturing process we see the first major change to quality in the CD...pity it took 33 years to get there and the cost of entry to the UHQCD world is pretty steep. 

 

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1 hour ago, metal beat said:

Perfect Sound Forever    :hiccup   :lol:    they should have been sued over that lie.  

Sound from CD can be pretty good.

People confuse poor recording, compression, poor mixing and bad Mastering with a fault or deficiency of the actual medium.

With vinyl, you have all of the above, plus bad pressing (you could not get more than 10kHz of treble if your CD was made and the old Dutch CBS plant) and if you listened to a solo piano, then after 50 sessions you would get the bacon frying sound coming out whenever the key was struck, particularly is someone before you had a misaligned rig with too much force or dusty environment.

 

I do like your signature and it is great but CD has double the dynamic range of vinyl, total silence as noise floor, no pops and clicks, does not wear out after listening to it 5000 times, when mishandled with greasy hands only needs a wipe to restore it to former glory, and errors made during the manufacturing process are corrected on the fly during playback.

Did I mention that the setup of a CD comprises only of connecting cables and turning it on?

Add it does not hum, even when volume is maxed out. ?

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Wasn't one of the taglines something around "we can now record silence" or some such silliness?

 

As the late, great John Peel, famously once said "life is noise". Personally don't like to hear the sound of my heartbeat between tracks or quiet bits so a little surface noise from the record, or the crack  from my fireplace or even the sound of my dog snoring ?  whilst im enjoying some music is  something I personally find comforting.

 

Scratches or other irregularities on the record that are locked into each rotation do however frustrate me to no end...

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On 17/04/2021 at 9:12 PM, audiofeline said:

Introducing The Amazing Compact Disc | 1982

 

It's unfortunate that we never got to hear that dynamic range that the CD promised.

 

 

 

Actually we did, just not as often as we should.

 

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3 hours ago, aasza said:

There is obviously still plenty of CD aficionados out there as most manufacturers have a CD Player or Transport in their product line-up.

 

Basic $300 units all the way up to $100,000 boutique spinners. 

 

Along with the CD, Philips also invented some of the most revered mechanisms that are still much sought after today, not to mention the also well renowned TDA1541 triple crown DAC chip. 

 

 

Totally agree, except for the triple crown :D

 

Only singles and doubles ever made, although i saw a seven crown one on aliexpress once 9_9

 

Love my crown chip/s

Edited by muon*
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51 minutes ago, muon* said:

Totally agree, except for the triple crown :D

 

Only singles and doubles ever made, although i saw a seven crown one on aliexpress once 9_9

 

Love my crown chip/s

 

Ah yes double crown... fixed my post now..

 

LOL 7 crown... seems legit ?

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2 minutes ago, aasza said:

 

Ah yes double crown... fixed my post now..

 

LOL 7 crown... seems legit ?

It did look nice :lol:

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If SACD counts as CD, I have multiple examples in my collection where it is very dynamic...  just saying....

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One of the great achievements of CD was it’s application for music on the move. As with cassette which proceeded it you now had access to your own choice of music in the car or on the street. Even better no chewed tapes and instant track of choice selection. Those early car players certainly weren’t quite so flash on a bumpy road however!

 

I am still 90% CD based but streaming is the future. The simple cost of access to a plethora of music makes CD and vinyl purchase seem very cost prohibitive in comparison.  Of course there are all the arguments regarding quality of the final product but in terms of access to music, digital changed the world. Not a bad outcome, vinyl lovers still have access to new music on their preferred software but that transfer from analog to digital opened up a Pandora’s box of options to younger music listeners once the Internet joined the party. 

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5 hours ago, Ooogh said:

One of the great achievements of CD was it’s application for music on the move. As with cassette which proceeded it you now had access to your own choice of music in the car or on the street. Even better no chewed tapes and instant track of choice selection. Those early car players certainly weren’t quite so flash on a bumpy road however!

I remember the first in car CD player that I ever saw. It was a Nakamichi and it was installed in a soft top Rolls Royce. The Roller was parked and had the top down. I think that the owner was showing off that he had both a Rolls Royce and a Nakamichi cd player. Pricing for both was, compared to the general market, sky high.

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18 hours ago, rockeater said:

Sound from CD can be pretty good.

 

I do like your signature and it is great but CD has double the dynamic range of vinyl, total silence as noise floor, no pops and clicks, does not wear out after listening to it 5000 times, when mishandled with greasy hands only needs a wipe to restore it to former glory, and errors made during the manufacturing process are corrected on the fly during playback.

Did I mention that the setup of a CD comprises only of connecting cables and turning it on?

Add it does not hum, even when volume is maxed out. ?

 

I have a CD player in the cupboard that hums through the RCA jacks.  I also have some 1980s CDs I bought originally that have started to skip here and there (likely damage to the reflective side), finicky players that baulk at some of the "non red-book" weirdo data/hybrid/copy protected CDs of the 2000s and other examples where the playing surface was scratched during mis-handling and can't just be wiped off.  The number of damaged CDs sitting in charity shops is alarming, I guess a lot of them spent time on the floor of cars and whatnot.

 

I do think somebody needs to be spanked over the idea that they were practically indestructible, they are incredibly fragile as they age and the reflective/label side can deteriorate.  Not as bad as vinyl but still always needed to be treated with a lot more care than the marketing suggested.  It's almost impossible to play one 5000 times without dropping it a few times.

 

 

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20 hours ago, rockeater said:

Sound from CD can be pretty good.

People confuse poor recording, compression, poor mixing and bad Mastering with a fault or deficiency of the actual medium.

With vinyl, you have all of the above, plus bad pressing (you could not get more than 10kHz of treble if your CD was made and the old Dutch CBS plant) and if you listened to a solo piano, then after 50 sessions you would get the bacon frying sound coming out whenever the key was struck, particularly is someone before you had a misaligned rig with too much force or dusty environment.

 

I do like your signature and it is great but CD has double the dynamic range of vinyl, total silence as noise floor, no pops and clicks, does not wear out after listening to it 5000 times, when mishandled with greasy hands only needs a wipe to restore it to former glory, and errors made during the manufacturing process are corrected on the fly during playback.

Did I mention that the setup of a CD comprises only of connecting cables and turning it on?

Add it does not hum, even when volume is maxed out. ?

 

total cop out blaming poor recording, compression, bad mastering, engineer is deaf, etc etc.  I guarantee most recordings sound pretty good in the studio, but crap on CD.   Why?   the format plain and simple.     

 

funny - most of the so-called poor recordings etc etc sound pretty good on vinyl.  

 

Please tell me what album have you played 5000 times?    I am sure everyone is interested to hear.

 

I have vinyl albums that I have played since I was 18 and they have been played maybe 500 times - they still sound great.  Yea, about 10% of my vinyl purchases are shitty pressings and I buy a lot of new release vinyl.  Simple, you return it.   compare this to a lot larger % of CD's that sound bad from all the so called excuses listed above.

 

The only way you get uneven record wear or noisy vinyl is if one has not set up the turntable and cartridge alignment correctly. Perhaps that has been your problem?

 

I don't get any hum from any of my turntables.  It does take some trial and error if you use SUT's, however any reasonable person can set their system up with hum.        perhaps you should ask SNA for some help with your humming system.

 

Who in their right mind would turn up a connected CD player to FULL volume?     Are you trying to blow your system up?

 

I believe there may be a better option in your drive for simplicity of connecting cables and turning it on.  Although, that is all most people do with vinyl once they have set up their system.

 

  download Spotify and it will play all your music for you. Once does not even have to think about playlists or what you want to hear.

 

The vinyl aficionados will just happily sit down and be totally immersed in music.

 

Just remember:    THERE IS MAGIC IN THEM GROOVES     :)

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There are a number of factors that Yes say Vinyl has advantage, namely a frequency response that is both higher and is not abruptly curtailed , and is assisted by a emphasis and de-emphasis curve RIAA , borrowed heavily from pioneering work of Murray Crosby. Vinyl depending on what master source is used, is not subjected to digital approximation.  There are also big drawbacks to recording digitally, an easy comparison, in most peoples collections,  compare Dire Straits Love over Gold a 30ips tape recording,  to Brothers in Arms.

 

The many drawbacks with CD,  can though be nearly all addressed. The format now has much better ability to move away from 20-20khz to a wider bandwidth, if we think of DVD , and bluray discs each fit more information in the same physical disc size.

 

A comparable emphasis deemphasis curve or better still a companded ability where your player decodes the original companding used during recording.  Your future CD player would sense as example Type 1 DBX, it would also sense Dolby A , and so on being pre-configured to   playback based on each of the original formats own companding - ... dare I say it.... move over MQA !

 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, david j said:

Be interesting to try one of the  uhqcd

probably not worth the trouble according to these guys.

 

 

Edited by Willmax
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Please help me out here.

 

Can anyone tell me why this debate is happening again?

 

Can anyone tell me what good will be achieved by yet another format war?

 

Can anyone tell me why somebody actually questions or ridicules the right of any person to listen to music via the means that they see fit for themselves and their situation?

 

Can anyone tell me why it matters so very much to people, that other people use a different format to play and enjoy music?

 

Can anyone tell me what actual good, or benefit will be achieved here? Will anyone undergo a format apostasy?

 

I am really struggling here, so anyone who can assist with plausible answers to enhance my understanding of the questions raised above would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you all.:)

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16 minutes ago, rantan said:

 

Please help me out here.

 

Can anyone tell me why this debate is happening again?

 

Can anyone tell me what good will be achieved by yet another format war?

 

Can anyone tell me why somebody actually questions or ridicules the right of any person to listen to music via the means that they see fit for themselves and their situation?

 

Can anyone tell me why it matters so very much to people, that other people use a different format to play and enjoy music?

 

Can anyone tell me what actual good, or benefit will be achieved here? Will anyone undergo a format apostasy?

 

I am really struggling here, so anyone who can assist with plausible answers to enhance my understanding of the questions raised above would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you all.:)

Everyone is free to provide in their systems, what happens to sound best to them, might be the best way of expressing it.  

 

 

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6 minutes ago, stereo coffee said:

Everyone is free to provide in their systems, what happens to sound best to them, might be the best way of expressing it.  

 

 

100%

 

However this doesn't really address why it bothers someone that someone else uses a different means to achieve the same end.

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2 hours ago, metal beat said:

total cop out blaming poor recording, compression, bad mastering, engineer is deaf, etc etc.  I guarantee most recordings sound pretty good in the studio, but crap on CD.   Why?   the format plain and simple.    

 

No, it's the loundess war that has limited the CD (digital) ability to shine all the time, plain and simple.

Not bad bad mastering but very deliberate loud mastering that compresses dynamics.

I'm sure you actually know.

 

2 hours ago, metal beat said:

funny - most of the so-called poor recordings etc etc sound pretty good on vinyl. 

 

What's so funny about it? As you know CD (digital) and Vinyl are most often mastered very differently.

 

I've heard many a Vinyl digital rip that captures that magic in them grooves and quite often I enjoy it more than the CD (digital) version.

It shows that digital can capture what is on them grooves, yeah.

But take one of them loud CD's and there's no way it's going on a Vinyl, well maybe it could if one could handle a half a track on each side. ?

 

Edited by Satanica
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13 minutes ago, rantan said:

100%

 

However this doesn't really address why it bothers someone that someone else uses a different means to achieve the same end.

Celebrating difference, and seeking enjoyment from that persons perspective, even though they are not your own. 

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11 hours ago, Ooogh said:

One of the great achievements of CD was it’s application for music on the move. As with cassette which proceeded it you now had access to your own choice of music in the car or on the street. Even better no chewed tapes and instant track of choice selection. Those early car players certainly weren’t quite so flash on a bumpy road however!

 

I am still 90% CD based but streaming is the future. The simple cost of access to a plethora of music makes CD and vinyl purchase seem very cost prohibitive in comparison.  Of course there are all the arguments regarding quality of the final product but in terms of access to music, digital changed the world. Not a bad outcome, vinyl lovers still have access to new music on their preferred software but that transfer from analog to digital opened up a Pandora’s box of options to younger music listeners once the Internet joined the party. 

 

I do not agree totally with this comment - buying a physical (CD or Vinyl) you pay once and own it forever if you wish to keep it that long.

 

I rather own than rent my music making other people rich  and the artists getting pittance. At least buying physical the artists may get more for their hard work and I get to keep the physical album. I wonder how many of these music streaming services will stick around long term? I mean I am still sulking that I have lost many Apps I purchased over the years that I no longer can use that were useful to me.

 

As for Vinyl Vs. CD - I prefer Vinyl MOST of the time - but admit sometimes CDs sound better, I do have a few albums I prefer on CD because the Vinyl is poorly mastered or full of clicks (yuck pressing). Also CDs are convenient to me if I want to listen to something in the background and not be disturbed having to flip a record over .............both formats happily live in my collection.  

 

I do admit to listening to Spotify to preview albums that I may be interested in though ..............it certainly does have it's place, but I wonder how satisfying streaming will be to many long term?  I think one would miss part of the experience of music maybe? 

 

But there is no right or wrong, only choices we can all make along the way and comes down to preferences and what works for you.

There should be no judgement because at the end of the day, it does not matter so long as you are getting joy from the music.

 

Edited by April Snow
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I agree 100% with everything in @April Snow's post above.

 

Thank goodness for some balance and perspective in lieu of invective.:)

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22 minutes ago, April Snow said:

 

I do not agree totally with this comment - buying a physical (CD or Vinyl) you pay once and own it forever if you wish to keep it that long.

 

I rather own than rent my music making other people rich  and the artists getting pittance. At least buying physical the artists may get more for their hard work and I get to keep the physical album. I wonder how many of these music streaming services will stick around long term? I mean I am still sulking that I have lost many Apps I purchased over the years that I no longer can use that were useful to me.

 

As for Vinyl Vs. CD - I prefer Vinyl MOST of the time - but admit sometimes CDs sound better, I do have a few albums I prefer on CD because the Vinyl is poorly mastered or full of clicks (yuck pressing). Also CDs are convenient to me if I want to listen to something in the background and not be disturbed having to flip a record over .............both formats happily live in my collection.  

 

I do admit to listening to Spotify to preview albums that I may be interested in though ..............it certainly does have it's place, but I wonder how satisfying streaming will be to many long term?  I think one would miss part of the experience of music maybe? 

 

But there is no right or wrong, only choices we can all make along the way and comes down to preferences and what works for you.

There should be no judgement because at the end of the day, it does not matter so long as you are getting joy from the music.

 

Nailed it @April Snow 100% :thumb:

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On 17/04/2021 at 9:42 PM, audiofeline said:

Introducing The Amazing Compact Disc | 1982

 

It's unfortunate that we never got to hear that dynamic range that the CD promised.

And to think that one day the CD will be replaced by putting the music onto a silicon chip!

 

 

 

Not going to debate CD vs vinyl, as they can both sound exceptional.

 

This video shows the high expectations of the new technology when it was introduced. I remember first reading about the coming digital revolution in the Age Green Guide in 1980 - I couldn't really get my head around it. It really was a technological miracle for the time.

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1 minute ago, dcathro said:

Not going to debate CD vs vinyl, as they can both sound exceptional.

 

Oh if only everyone would agree! ?

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55 minutes ago, stereo coffee said:

Celebrating difference, and seeking enjoyment from that persons perspective, even though they are not your own. 

 

Ah, 'tis but a pipedream for discussions on different formats. It's far easier to kick each other instead. ;)

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3 minutes ago, pete_mac said:

 

Ah, 'tis but a pipedream for discussions on different formats. It's far easier to kick each other instead. ;)

Do we tap into out tribal instincts in these type of discussions, I think we do ?

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56 minutes ago, muon* said:

Do we tap into out tribal instincts in these type of discussions, I think we do ?

 

Absolutely!!!

 

PS. Sansui is the greatest, and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise :)

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1 hour ago, pete_mac said:

 

Ah, 'tis but a pipedream for discussions on different formats. It's far easier to kick each other instead. ;)

 

Ahh, it is so tempting to hang sh*t on others!

 

My position is that I chose to go the CD route a long time ago, moving from vinyl in the early 90s. I have done everything I can to get the most out of CD replay , and am happy with the result.

 

I made the decision not to get back into vinyl because I didn't want to spend the money on a second format. I have friends who run vinyl, and enjoy listening to it.

 

I made the choice not to go into streaming, because it seemed like too much hard work, and I preferred the sound of physical media playback. I can say that I have not heard a streaming setup (and I have limited experience ) that has rocked my boat, but I would not criticise others for taking this route.

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3 hours ago, rantan said:

 

Can anyone tell me why it matters so very much to people, that other people use a different format to play and enjoy music?

 

Insecurity? Need for validation?

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7 minutes ago, dcathro said:

 

I made the choice not to go into streaming, because it seemed like too much hard work, and I preferred the sound of physical media playback. I can say that I have not heard a streaming setup (and I have limited experience ) that has rocked my boat, but I would not criticise others for taking this route.

 

Amen.

 

I prefer to own my music and not rent it, and absolutely NOT be a captive to corporate platforms like MQA. 

I also freely acknowledge that people make their own ( valid) choices as to how and why their musical enjoyment is achieved in their own situation.

 

 

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The same as @rantan and @April Snow, I prefer to own my music, and hopefully a decent cut of what I've paid has made it to the artists in the end. I'm not particularly interested in a Streaming service because i) I just become a ongoing revenue stream for said service ii) what happens if said service suddenly disappears? I've had that happen before with digital media (not music), and it's damn bloody annoying. Like you had a bookshelf of stuff, and it suddenly disappears into thin air iii) a fair whack of the stuff I like I'm pretty sure can't be cogently found on Streaming services. Having said that, I have to admit that for discovery, a Streaming service might be useful, but I've been finding lots of new artists through 3PBSFM - and I'm a subscriber.

 

You own a CD, you own it forever, unless it goes frisby flying out of a broken CD case and cracks itself, or gets stuck inside a cardboard wrapper and scrapes itself. Such are the hazards of the medium. But some of the CDs I have are 3 decades old, and have travelled hither and thither, halfway around the world and more, migrating from playing on an ancient Sony CD walkman through to my now current HiFi system.

 

It's not a perfect medium by any means, but despite reports of imminent demise, seems to still be hanging around. Many HiFi manufacturers continue to make CD players, which amazes me, because I wasn't sure there is much demand there.

 

Maybe it and vinyl will continue hanging around as the physical forms of expression of ultimate musical joy. 

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4 hours ago, April Snow said:

 

I do not agree totally with this comment - buying a physical (CD or Vinyl) you pay once and own it forever if you wish to keep it that long.

 

I rather own than rent my music making other people rich  and the artists getting pittance. At least buying physical the artists may get more for their hard work and I get to keep the physical album. I wonder how many of these music streaming services will stick around long term? I mean I am still sulking that I have lost many Apps I purchased over the years that I no longer can use that were useful to me.

 

As for Vinyl Vs. CD - I prefer Vinyl MOST of the time - but admit sometimes CDs sound better, I do have a few albums I prefer on CD because the Vinyl is poorly mastered or full of clicks (yuck pressing). Also CDs are convenient to me if I want to listen to something in the background and not be disturbed having to flip a record over .............both formats happily live in my collection.  

 

I do admit to listening to Spotify to preview albums that I may be interested in though ..............it certainly does have it's place, but I wonder how satisfying streaming will be to many long term?  I think one would miss part of the experience of music maybe? 

 

But there is no right or wrong, only choices we can all make along the way and comes down to preferences and what works for you.

There should be no judgement because at the end of the day, it does not matter so long as you are getting joy from the music.

 

Totally understand your point of view April. I also want to own my physical copy forever. I don’t want to be trying to make technology I don’t understand work properly and I certainly don’t want to screw over musicians.

 

As you say however streaming gives you access to artists you may never otherwise even be aware of. You can then buy their material having discovered them, lots of services will play music that fits the genres you listen to and introduce musicians you would otherwise be totally unaware of.

 

As for the artists getting a greater percentage of the profits, well they still get 1% of nothing. Thousands and thousands of musicians were signed up to criminal contracts by the big labels who then decided exactly what was played on the radio. They were also handcuffed to multi record contracts. Take a look at George Michael. John Fogerty used to beg people not to by CCR albums because he got nothing. At least in the past you could play enough pub gigs to get noticed, those days ended long ago.

 

Today my wife can record, download, market and sell physical or streamed copies of her own material using sources like BandCamp.  She keeps 90% of the value of those sales, not a huge corporation. As an independent artist you now have the ability to record your own material and distribute it. The costs involved in studio time and pressing costs were beyond many bands.

 

It is a brave new world out there where the young make independent choices of music no longer totally dependent on the radio / large record companies deciding what they have access to. Don’t get me wrong, the record company’s, corporate juggernauts still run most of the show and streaming services screw artists just as hard as has always happened.  I however believe that digital recording combined with the Internet gives more bands more chance to be heard than has been historically possible. With the unbelievable decline in live music venues it is the last ray of light for developing artists. 
 

As you so rightly say, each to there own. I have absolutely no problem with any source, vinyl, tape, CD, streaming, live music. Those who think CD sucks, listen to Vinyl, can’t be bothered washing records and flipping sides, get into streaming. I have a cupboard full of records, a rack full of CD’s , boxes of tapes and a streamer. All have delivered music, all have returned bugger all to the musicians and bought middle men and corporate big wigs an extra Mercedes. 

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3 hours ago, Ooogh said:

Today my wife can record, download, market and sell physical or streamed copies of her own material using sources like BandCamp.  She keeps 90% of the value of those sales, not a huge corporation. As an independent artist you now have the ability to record your own material and distribute it. The costs involved in studio time and pressing costs were beyond many bands.

 

It is a brave new world out there where the young make independent choices of music no longer totally dependent on the radio / large record companies deciding what they have access to. Don’t get me wrong, the record company’s, corporate juggernauts still run most of the show and streaming services screw artists just as hard as has always happened.  I however believe that digital recording combined with the Internet gives more bands more chance to be heard than has been historically possible. With the unbelievable decline in live music venues it is the last ray of light for developing artists. 
 

As you so rightly say, each to there own. I have absolutely no problem with any source, vinyl, tape, CD, streaming, live music. Those who think CD sucks, listen to Vinyl, can’t be bothered washing records and flipping sides, get into streaming. I have a cupboard full of records, a rack full of CD’s , boxes of tapes and a streamer. All have delivered music, all have returned bugger all to the musicians and bought middle men and corporate big wigs an extra Mercedes. 

In the last couple of months, there were a few CDs I ordered from local Australian artists on Bandcamp. A couple of them looked like they were mailed direct from the artist, with little thank you notes, so I think my money in these cases really did avoid the big corporates and mostly made it to those who actually are creating the material.

 

I have a few albums now purely in digital format that need to be streamed/go via a DAC, and have ripped most of my CDs. I still find I prefer playing CDs. It just seems simpler, and if there is a booklet, nice to flick through. One of these days, I might try vinyl, but I've all been set up so far for CD/digital, don't have any vinyl albums at all, so it's going to take some effort on my part to try it out. But am curious to see how it's like.

 

As you say, each to their own, and nothing wrong with sticking to one format, or have multiple, if you have the entire setup for it.

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