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Finding the Qobuz app on my DAP (m11 Pro) significantly laggy compared to tidal. It’s not as polished either with search and usability. 
 

My thoughts are that Tidal is upsampling to MQA Bitrates so whilst there’s a perception of increased gain and quality, particularly with forward mids and dynamics, I’ve subjectively formed the opinion it’s not as clean. 
 

 

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Hello folks,   I've spent a fair bit of time over the last 3 - 4 days comparing Qobuz with Tidal and I find the Qobuz Hi Res files more to my liking compared to the same MQA file delivered v

If Qobuz comes through with a radio service it lifts the game considerably.  I think the Spotify affection is also borne out of the fact it offers suggestions in line with actual listening habits.  Ti

Tidal gone

It’s laggy here on all formats (app and Node2i) and the disappointing thing so far is that a lot of my favs on tidal arn’t on Qobuz. 

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9 hours ago, mmv said:

Been testing it today - roon on antipodes/Dave/pre/power/gryphon speakers etc. 

 

Quobuz doesn't quite have the library of songs that I like as compared to tidal (e.g Annette askvik, Carolina eyck). It is smoother overall -  which helps for certain songs, but maybe sounds less dynamic?/airy? for certain recordings. Especially when comparing same resolution files.

 

Would certainly think there's a different eq curve happening as compared with tidal. 

Will keep doing some back and forth testing!

 

*Edit* - then I go listen to Tool -Invincible in high res and I'm wondering if I need to pay for both....

 

I also listened to Tool last night, Invincible sounds awesome in 96khz!!! but I already very much enjoyed the 44.1khz version.

I think we all need to ask ourselves as music lovers whether MQA is good for the music industry, vendors, musicians and 'us' as consumers.  

I personally find MQA marketing, its claims to be lossless and its ultimate sound quality disingenuous. 

 

MQA's response to consumers seeking more information or testing the standard, is often met with aggression and attack. 

This is not a position which reassures best intent. 

 

From a sound quality perspective Qobuz wins IMO, and this is enough for me to make the switch. 

It was a real pain seeking out non MQA tracks, now I don't need to worry. In most cases Qobuz serves up 96khz tracks which sound leagues better than MQA Masters. 

Qobuz's stream detail, clarity and tonally density/richness is clearly apparent in direct comparison.  

 

I agree the catalogue still needs some work, especially in indie rock/alternate/electronic genres, but as more and more subscribers support Qobuz, libraries will improve. 

I think we need to back the horse that is backing our preference for lossless, and great sounding audio. 

Spotify will soon come to market, with lossless (and hopefully no MQA) and we can all re-evaluate our streaming options. 

 

I wonder where Roon sits in all of this? Its value proposition is severely degraded. 

Spotify for instance natively supports Spotify connect, Spotify iphone control etc.

 

Interesting times for the audiophile/music lover. 

 

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I think I will wait till the dust settles and it’s been up and running for awhile, then try the free trial.

 I listen to a lot of electronica and I’ve never had any issues with lagging or dropouts with Tidal. 
And it sounds great to my ears.

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13 hours ago, Nada said:

In terms of file choices,  sampling theory  predicts that

 

1. PCM eg 44.1/16 can sound better then compressed files like Spotify or MQA.  If testing this out be aware to level the volume as MQA can up the volume, which is a great way to sound better. Im not suggesting MQA do that to cheat.  If you cant hear a difference be happy,  get your ears cleaned or listen to a mates system.

 

2. PCM 44.1/16  encodes more then humans need. So "high res" like 24 bit or 96 kHz is only indicated for blue whales or bats.  If testing this out be aware some high res files are better engineered and some DACs can sound better with high res files but expectation bias is powerful.

 

Conclusion

Qobuz 44.1/16 might be best for most.

 

 

 

Hi Nada, hi-res music formats aren't designed to capture more audible information, but to allow shifting of the filtering noise further outside of the audible band and therefore give more room for the roll-off of those filters to be less aggressive (i.e. there's more room between 20kHz and 48kHz (half the sampling rate of 96kHz) than between 20kHz and 22.05kHz (half of 44.1kHz). There is also an argument to be made for better capture of spatial information due to the rapid variations of the sound waves in a complex piece of music as compared to sine waves. More frequent samples may assist the DAC to rebuild the exact musical waveform with slightly better timing accuracy.

 

For the record, most of my collection is redbook FLAC and I am quite happy with it, but if I can get an equivalent hi-res version, I'll always take that over the 44.1/16 version

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If you own Audirvana there's a link provided (code) in the preferences where you connect your account that gives you a 3 month free trial of Qobuz.

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Really enjoying not having to sift through mountains of hippity hop and rap suggestions like in tidal

Also seems to be a few Hifi manufacturers playlists like McInotsh, Classe, Cyrus and Chord

Edited by Bunno77
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16 hours ago, 08Boss302 said:

I am still on my US Qobuz and just earlier had a chat with a mate who has the AU Qobuz trial There was an album he couldnt find on the AU Qobuz that is on the US Qobuz.  Its an obscure metal album but interesting its not on the AU version.

Has anyone else that has the US or UK based version done any comparison with mates on the AU version.  If there is a few differences I assume these would be down to geographical licensing rights?

FWIW, that same album is not on Tidal AU or Spotify either.

 

I'm keen to hear more on this as I'm still on the U.S. version too. Will eventually move over to the AU version then copy all my Tidal library over.

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On 14/04/2021 at 1:31 PM, captain starlight said:

Has anyone tried the qobuz iOS app on CarPlay yet?  If so, did it work for you?  I also note the app is rather slow on my old iPhone 6s.

Yes, it works well, but as far as I can tell it will only let you play music you have downloaded? Although it did continue streaming the album that I already had playing previously.

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Five Things to Know About Spotify HiFi

FEBRUARY 22, 2021

  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  

Artists and fans have told us that sound quality is important to them. We agree, and that’s why today at Stream On we announced Spotify HiFi

Beginning later this year, Premium subscribers in select markets will be able to upgrade their sound quality to Spotify HiFi and listen to their favorite songs the way artists intended. 

Read on for five things you need to know about our new high-quality music experience:

  1. High-quality music streaming is consistently one of the most requested new features by our users.
  2. Spotify HiFi will deliver music in CD-quality, lossless audio format to your device and Spotify Connect-enabled speakers, which means fans will be able to experience more depth and clarity while enjoying their favorite tracks.
  3. Ubiquity is at the core of everything we do at Spotify, and we’re working with some of the world’s biggest speaker manufacturers to make Spotify HiFi accessible to as many fans as possible through Spotify Connect
  4. HiFi will be coupled with Spotify’s seamless user experience, building on our commitment to make sure users can listen to the music they love in the way they want to enjoy it. 
  5. Spotify HiFi will begin rolling out in select markets later this year, and we will have more details to share soon.  

 i for one can't  wait for spotify hifi,has all the albums i need,shows similar  music choices, keeps playing music in the same genre when your last selection has finished , i am sure there will be some who will disagree but going back through this thread it seems qobuz has it's downside,maybe it is teething problems as it is early days for australia,when spotify does start streaming hifi in oz at least we have more choices. 

 

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If this goes ahead I might just re consider my decision not to buy a streamer.

 

I have tried Apple music, Deezer and Tidal and for various reasons none of them have ever really tempted me to enter the world of streaming.

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A little late to the party for Spotihifi, but better late than never.

 

It's interesting they say higher quality is consistently one of the most requested features.  We do tend to comment here that only audiophiles appreciate higher quality audio and we're a market too small to bother.  Well, maybe that's not correct.  With Spotify holding the mass of the market, they see the value in investing in better quality.

 

I'm excited, Qobuz and better quality Spotify this year = awesome!

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21 hours ago, Chris.chapterten said:

Funny, I’m also using a node and streaming Kayo and HR music simultaneously today.... No issues. My internet connection is around 45mbps


And wouldn't you know it, not long after posting that I started having dropouts again. I guess it depends on the content. When the hi-res stuff was playing smoothly I thought I'd go back to play some tracks that didn't work the other day. Jeff Buckley songs. Them and some others were playing up after I had a good run earlier.

 

Hopefully it will be better now, as telstra were carrying out work on my local network up until yesterday.

 

I'm not sure if it matters anyway, as I was reading about my DAC (Primare MM30) and it says it upsamples all digital sources to 24/192 anyway ??‍♂️ that would explain not necessarily discerning a SQ difference across the various files I stream.

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FWIW, I solved my issue with Roon SQ vs the Qobuz app by moving the DAC onto my old i7 Mac Mini and using the lightweight Roon Bridge to connect to the Roon core on my M1 Mini - ie split the Core/control and playback functions.

20210419_154525.thumb.jpg.72cdebc3c591db6a7ffd6739e701084d.jpg

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Guest Eggcup the Dafter
4 hours ago, ray4410 said:

Five Things to Know About Spotify HiFi

FEBRUARY 22, 2021

  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  

Artists and fans have told us that sound quality is important to them. We agree, and that’s why today at Stream On we announced Spotify HiFi

Beginning later this year, Premium subscribers in select markets will be able to upgrade their sound quality to Spotify HiFi and listen to their favorite songs the way artists intended. 

Read on for five things you need to know about our new high-quality music experience:

  1. High-quality music streaming is consistently one of the most requested new features by our users.
  2. Spotify HiFi will deliver music in CD-quality, lossless audio format to your device and Spotify Connect-enabled speakers, which means fans will be able to experience more depth and clarity while enjoying their favorite tracks.
  3. Ubiquity is at the core of everything we do at Spotify, and we’re working with some of the world’s biggest speaker manufacturers to make Spotify HiFi accessible to as many fans as possible through Spotify Connect
  4. HiFi will be coupled with Spotify’s seamless user experience, building on our commitment to make sure users can listen to the music they love in the way they want to enjoy it. 
  5. Spotify HiFi will begin rolling out in select markets later this year, and we will have more details to share soon.  

 i for one can't  wait for spotify hifi,has all the albums i need,shows similar  music choices, keeps playing music in the same genre when your last selection has finished , i am sure there will be some who will disagree but going back through this thread it seems qobuz has it's downside,maybe it is teething problems as it is early days for australia,when spotify does start streaming hifi in oz at least we have more choices. 

 

I suspect we're all watching this one, VPNs at the ready, because it will probably arrive in Australia some time around 2028.

 

As long as their "lossless audio format" is real PCM, and not something with the word "master" in the name, of course!

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38 minutes ago, Eggcup the Dafter said:

I suspect we're all watching this one, VPNs at the ready, because it will probably arrive in Australia some time around 2028.

 

As long as their "lossless audio format" is real PCM, and not something with the word "master" in the name, of course!

Spotify being the juggernaught they are I am of the opinion we'll get it here not long after its USA release.  Darko did a clip not long after the announcement speculating it wont be an additional cost to the current premium subscription but more so just an option that current subscribers can choose - that would be quite amazing if its the way it goes.

As for their HiFi format, I wrote in the original thread (before the split into this one, although I think my post is on P1 of this thread now) that I reckon in some way or another Spotify will be damned even with their HiFi platform by many audiophiles. Spotify is just a machine and hardly boutiqe about anything it does or caters so even with a fair priced HiFi platform their will be fault found.  Their 320kbps Ogg Vorbis is ridiculed too.  All that aside, lets not forget the US also has Amazon HD which we havent seen here yet!

 

I've had Qobuz for over a year now, its a great service, I much prefer it over Tidal on the provision of my equipment and also I've always felt Tidal had an inflated bass to it, like a V curve that I did not employ.  That of course if subjective on my behalf.  I wont even start with Tidals useless suggestions.  In a perfect world, Spotify HiFi will come along and that will serve me perfectly, as a premium user I enjoy pretty much everything about Spotify.  Qobuz however is also fantastic and for that more indulgent listen and having HiRes I have no plans to discontinue my subscription especially not at the current annual fee where I can listen to all the HiRes i desire and find artists in HiRes I would otherwise never buy their CD. 

 

All service prefernce bashings aside, its a remarkable and wonderful reality we have with these services these days. I get that the artists are at a financial disadvantage from the good ol days because of it, but downloading was also rife giving them $0 so at least this now promotes thier new releases and gets people listening and to their gigs/buying merch which is hopefully where they are getting some revenue nowadays.

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I listened to the hi res version of the Eurythmics album Revenge (Remastered) last night. Just wow! Annie Lennox's vocals 

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Only 5 minutes ago I finished listening to Blind Faith 192/24 on Qobuz. What an album and what an amazing experience in HiRes.

 

Qobuz's only significant failing is its lack of radio-based-on-type function/suggestions. This will be the catalyst to resurrect/rebuild my Roon Core I think.

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7 hours ago, John0001 said:

If you own Audirvana there's a link provided (code) in the preferences where you connect your account that gives you a 3 month free trial of Qobuz.

Not for me.... :(

 

 

 

Screen Shot 2021-04-19 at 6.39.08 PM.png

Edited by Honreekea
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1 hour ago, El Tel said:

 

Qobuz's only significant failing is its lack of radio-based-on-type function/suggestions.


Yep, certainly mentioned often so far so clearly a bug bear for many people, myself included.  Having said that, it’s merely a software update to address it, so I’m holding great hope it will be sorted in the near future. 
 

If we all provide feedback to Qobuz, I’m sure they’d hear the message.

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14 minutes ago, Kaynin said:

it’s merely a software update to address

 

It may seem that way... Whilst updating player versions is the easy part, the algorithm behind it is very complex and would take significant resources to develop to the point of viability. It's why Roon does well as an add-on in front of Qobuz and Tidal.

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5 minutes ago, John0001 said:

@Honreekea Definitely 3 month trial here via Audirvana; Audirvana Mac Version 3.5.44.
 

146434993_ScreenShot2021-04-19at7_14_30pm.png.320954a58cf32075e52ec4fac16a516d.png

J

How do you find the user experience with Audirvana? 

I struggled with Audirvana when compared to Roon's experience. 

Roon seems more reliable, less buggy. 

 

Although, I personally feel Roon is over priced for what it does. 

 

 

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Does anyone know how much Qobuz pays the artist cf to the other streaming music services?

 

I know there are many ways to calculate these payouts, as there are many factors to conside but generally they all put Tidal near the top end, and Spotify at the opposite end of the scale.

 

So where does Qobuz fit in?

 

1550697805_Streamingservicespayout.JPG.7e99805e52fbd4bbbc6dab9451a88b7f.JPG

Edited by Citroen
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12 minutes ago, John0001 said:

@Honreekea Definitely 3 month trial here via Audirvana; Audirvana Mac Version 3.5.44.
 

146434993_ScreenShot2021-04-19at7_14_30pm.png.320954a58cf32075e52ec4fac16a516d.png

J

 

I don't doubt you. I'm just showing what I get.  Admittedly I'm still using version 2  of audio Varna

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4 minutes ago, Citroen said:

Does anyone know how much Qobuz pays the artist cf to the other streaming music services?

 

I know there are many ways to calculate these payouts, as there are many factors to conside but generally they all put Tidal near the top end, and Spotify at the opposite end of the scale.

 

So where does Qobuz fit in?

This is a US comparison I believe from last year. Nobody pays much, but there's Qobuz, top of the list at four times what Tidal pays! It will be different for us, I don't know how different though.

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6 minutes ago, Grizaudio said:

How do you find the user experience with Audirvana? 

I struggled with Audirvana when compared to Roon's experience. 

Roon seems more reliable, less buggy. 

 

Although, I personally feel Roon is over priced for what it does. 

 

 

 

 

 I have version 2 and it's been hit and miss for me.  Which negated me stumping up for V3.  The program has been very buggy for an OsX program compared to my normal MAC experience..

 

No experience with Roon, but from what little I've read I would agree, overpriced ?

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8 minutes ago, Eggcup the Dafter said:

This is a US comparison I believe from last year. Nobody pays much, but there's Qobuz, top of the list at four times what Tidal pays! It will be different for us, I don't know how different though.

 

Thanks.

 

Just found this too

442641213_Streamingservicespayoutqobuz.JPG.4249f594a49833e97c85e7ecc04dbd9a.JPG

 

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Yeah, late to the party but was going to say with Spotify coming out with a premium lossless offering there is going to be a way more competitive market for us. I still feel Spotify's UI offering is leaps and bounds ahead of the others along with its automatic selection after a playlist finishes. It will be interesting to see how aggressively it is priced.

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38 minutes ago, Grizaudio said:

How do you find the user experience with Audirvana? 

I struggled with Audirvana when compared to Roon's experience. 

Roon seems more reliable, less buggy. 

 

Although, I personally feel Roon is over priced for what it does. 


The UI and overall feel of Audirvana are definitely much less sophisticated than Roon. It works fine, does all the basics with no problem, I've not had any issues with v3.5 at all; it's stable and error free. But yeah, you pay a lot for Roon's superior UI and networking that's for sure. Having compared the two I think Audirvana does sound slightly better than Roon, which sounds marginally flatter.

 

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11 minutes ago, John0001 said:


The UI and overall feel of Audirvana are definitely much less sophisticated than Roon. It works fine, does all the basics with no problem, I've not had any issues with v3.5 at all; it's stable and error free. But yeah, you pay a lot for Roon's superior UI and networking that's for sure. Having compared the two I think Audirvana does sound slightly better than Roon, which sounds marginally flatter.

 

 

I've used both. 

I can't say I hear a difference between Audirvana or Roon.

I will say, Audirvana 3.5 on Win10 gave me issues with lockups etc.

Which is why I went to Roon. 

 

If Spotify comes out with lossless, I'll simply use the Spotify app and stream to my Ropieee XL Streamer via connect.

I would have no need for Roon, I only use it as a connect transport, for Tidal and Qobuz. 

I think I would be happier with this setup, all things considered. 

 

Edited by Grizaudio
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46 minutes ago, Citroen said:

 

Thanks.

 

Just found this too

442641213_Streamingservicespayoutqobuz.JPG.4249f594a49833e97c85e7ecc04dbd9a.JPG

 

This confirms it for me. Goodbye Tidal and, looking at those figures, maybe I should also say goodbye to Spotify.

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1 hour ago, Citroen said:

 

Thanks.

 

Just found this too

442641213_Streamingservicespayoutqobuz.JPG.4249f594a49833e97c85e7ecc04dbd9a.JPG

 

Thanks. That was what I'd found... but looks like the link got away from my post. Whoops.

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Had no issues using Audirvana into M1 Mac running Qobuz.

No lags or bugs that I’ve noticed. Easy to find tracks and the remote app works fine for me. 
my download speed is 260mbps though. 

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1 hour ago, John0001 said:

The UI and overall feel of Audirvana are definitely much less sophisticated than Roon.

That's putting it kindly. 

Audirvana looks and feels 10yrs older and lacks many of the features of Roon.

Only gets used by me when I'm testing stuff. 

 

55 minutes ago, Grizaudio said:

If Spotify comes out with lossless, I'll simply use the Spotify app and stream to my Ropieee XL Streamer via connect.

I would have no need for Roon, I only use it as a connect transport, for Tidal and Qobuz. 

Don't think I'll ever understand the love for Spotify, and I say this as a Premium subscriber for mobile convenience and family use. 

The way I see it they are two steps behind Qobuz at present (no CD or HR quality). Have they ever stated they'd move into Hi-res? Non-starter for me without that feature.

Their desktop apps lack any ability to optimise SQ either - do you reckon that will change? 

If they allowed integration with Roon that could be interesting, but can't see that happening.

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6 minutes ago, Tobes said:

That's putting it kindly. 

Audirvana looks and feels 10yrs older and lacks many of the features of Roon.

Only gets used by me when I'm testing stuff. 

 

Don't think I'll ever understand the love for Spotify, and I say this as a Premium subscriber for mobile convenience and family use. 

The way I see it they are two steps behind Qobuz at present (no CD or HR quality). Have they ever stated they'd move into Hi-res? Non-starter for me without that feature.

Their desktop apps lack any ability to optimise SQ either - do you reckon that will change? 

If they allowed integration with Roon that could be interesting, but can't see that happening.


as explained in many posts, Spotify has over 300 million customers most of which are using it for lo res on the go streaming. 
There is not much financial motivation to cater for the very small community of Hi-Res users. As you’ve pointed out, you’re willing to also pay for another service for that. Not judging I have both too. 
it’s just the simple maths of it in practice 

Edited by Jack Goff
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1 hour ago, wolster said:

This confirms it for me. Goodbye Tidal and, looking at those figures, maybe I should also say goodbye to Spotify.

I hadn’t been able to find this information before... but I feel exactly the same way, would much rather support a service that is making more of an effort to support artists!

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4 minutes ago, Jack Goff said:

There is not much financial motivation to cater for the very small community of Hi-Res users.

Yes, I fully realise that the majority of Spotify users have zero interest in Hi-res - and very small proportion of users have any interest in 16/44 either. I was saying Spotify is unlikely to pursue Hi-res.

When I ask people at my workplace they have never even heard of Tidal or Qobuz - they wonder why anyone would want such a service.

I guess what surprises me is that, especially on a Hi-fi enthusiast forum, folks would still consider Spotify for their primary streaming source - especially when a service like Qobuz is a measly $7/mo more. Yeah I know there may be other factors involved, like catalog deficits and (apparently) user interface familiarity.

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14 minutes ago, Tobes said:

Yes, I fully realise that the majority of Spotify users have zero interest in Hi-res - and very small proportion of users have any interest in 16/44 either. I was saying Spotify is unlikely to pursue Hi-res.

When I ask people at my workplace they have never even heard of Tidal or Qobuz - they wonder why anyone would want such a service.

I guess what surprises me is that, especially on a Hi-fi enthusiast forum, folks would still consider Spotify for their primary streaming source - especially when a service like Qobuz is a measly $7/mo more. Yeah I know there may be other factors involved, like catalog deficits and (apparently) user interface familiarity.

My guess is that a big part of the appeal is the radio functionality... a lot of casual music listeners might just want the music as background ambience without having to give much thought to creating their own playlists etc. Spotify is probably the best at that.. Tidal offers some basic artist radio feature too...  but if you want that with Qobuz it looks like you would have to add Roon on top for the Radio-like functionality. At that point it is more than just $7 more expensive and a bit more involved than just downloading the Spotify app and being done with it in quick time.. 

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