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Need assistance to review my 2.2 setup


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i am putting together a 2.2 setup and need some assistance reviewing my designs  on how i plan to limit full range signal going to the front speakers and manage subwoofer xover. 

 

i'd like to know which option is better and whether there are any pro's and con's to doing it one way vs the other. 

 

ultimately i will add a minidsp into the mix and would like to know where in the signal chain this goes in.

 

option 1 - uses a separate high pass filter  - Link to Digram - https://imgur.com/4oJYDnD

option 2  - uses the high pass filter on the subwoofer (SVS PB13 Ultra) - Link to Diagram - https://imgur.com/nJKjG45

 

option 1 - requires two additional components. a High Pass filter and a pair of Y Adapter 1 Male to 2 Female. the ones I plan on getting are:

 

Y Adapter 1 Male to 2 Female Adaptor:

https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=AQM22FHRD

 

HSU High Pass Filter:

https://hsuresearch.com/products/high-pass-filter.html

 

as both these products are from USA, i will need to use a forwarding service. if there are any options available in aus , i am open to suggestions but from what i researched, these came well reviewed. 

 

the only thing that i can think of that would sway me more towards option 1 is because if i ever change the subs in the future to ones that don't have a high pass filter, it would be an easy swap out

 

i have thought of some other ways to do this,

like using pre/integrated amps that have cross over management built in (a la parasound) but they seem to be out of my price range and are not as flexible (i.e. i can't change out the pre-amp for a different one of my liking if i lock myself into relying on the preamp to do this). 

 

TIA

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, krisk321 said:

Ultimately i will add a minidsp into the mix and would like to know where in the signal chain this goes in.

 

Why not go straight there? In the diagram below one can do the role of the DAC, PreAmp and HSU High Pass from the diagram below and provide a genuine crossover that is highly configurable.

4oJYDnD.jpg

Edited by Satanica
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20 minutes ago, Satanica said:

 

Why not go straight there? In the diagram below one can do the role of the DAC, PreAmp and HSU High Pass from the diagram below and provide a genuine crossover that is highly configurable.

4oJYDnD.jpg

And removes the extra ADC/DAC step in the HSU filter and negates the need to stuff around with Y adaptors.  A MiniDSP 2x4 HD will do all this for about $300 😉

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Posted (edited)

I’d like to use my own dac and preamp to maintain the sq I get .......that’s where I am confused on minidsp and what role it plays and how it fits in. The only thing. I know is that I will need it for sub eq for my room 

Edited by krisk321
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7 minutes ago, krisk321 said:

Is there a way to use a minidsp but still use my own dac or preamp or in some cases my own dac that has a built in preamp. I’d like this flexibility as I change out components over time. 

 

Yes, there is - but it increases the amount of digital/analogue conversion that goes on ... which can't be a good thing.  Given your diagram, here:

 

4oJYDnD.jpg

 

Your DAC produces R & L analogue outputs from the digital stream - which, in your diagram above, feed your preamp.  The analogue output of either the DAC or the preamp could also be fed into the miniDSP; the RCA (analogue) outputs from the miniDSP then feed into:

  • the L & R sub inputs, and
  • your stereo amp.

The miniDSP lets you play with different slopes & roll-off frequencies - so you get the result you like best.  :)  Also - and to me this is key, in terms of good sub/main integration - you can apply delay to either the subs or the mains, to compensate from their drivers being different distances from your ears.

 

Andy

 

 

 

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Is there a way to avoid the additional AD/DA conversions by using an all digital version like the nanodigi dsp and putting it in between my source and my dac? 
 

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12 minutes ago, krisk321 said:

Is there a way to avoid the additional AD/DA conversions by using an all digital version like the nanodigi dsp and putting it in between my source and my dac? 
 

 

MiniDSP SHD or MiniDSP SHD Studio which comes with Dirac Live. 

Edited by Satanica
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just having a look at the diagram for the SHD Studio, it shows that it sits between your digital source and your DAC. the diagram shows a dual DAC setup. 

can i use a single DAC and Y adaptor off it to go into dual subs or is that no no ?

or can i use the Y adaptor from the pre amplifier to go into the dual subs?

or do you just have to use 2 dacs ?

 

https://www.minidsp.com/products/streaming-hd-series/shd-studio

 

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Whoops, perhaps you might want to take back that "Like" because thinking about it more you won't be able to control volume of the Subwoofers with the MiniDSP SHD series unless you use it as digital preamp or control volume digitally with your Sources. Sorry. 

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5 minutes ago, krisk321 said:

just having a look at the diagram for the SHD Studio, it shows that it sits between your digital source and your DAC. the diagram shows a dual DAC setup. 

can i use a single DAC and Y adaptor off it to go into dual subs or is that no no ?

or can i use the Y adaptor from the pre amplifier to go into the dual subs?

or do you just have to use 2 dacs ?

 

https://www.minidsp.com/products/streaming-hd-series/shd-studio

 

 

If you were prepared to do away with your preamp you could use the either the SHD or SHD Studio. The difference between the two is the SHD has digital output for your current DAC and analogue outputs for your subwoofers. Alternatively using the SHD Studio you can achieve the same thing but you would need a separate DAC for your subwoofers. 

 

The SHD line is similar to the 2x4 line in that they are 2 channels in and 4 channels out which is perfect for a 2.2 setup. 

Edited by Satanica
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with regards to picking between the two, i guess my question would be if i use the SHD , then the front LR speakers will run off a different DAC to the subwoofers. could 

this lead to mismatched SQ

 

would it be better using SHD Studio and using two of the same DACS?

 

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1 hour ago, andyr said:

Yes, there is - but it increases the amount of digital/analogue conversion that goes on ... which can't be a good thing

so in this method, I would connect the pre-amp to the minidsp, then from minidsp into the amp and subwoofers.

does this mean i just need a normal minidsp 2x4 (not the HD) and i will have an AD/DA conversion going on (which im OK with) as this is a simpler option that could work for me. 

 

this allows me the flexibility to change out the dac/pre-amp as i need to. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, krisk321 said:

 

Is there a way to avoid the additional AD/DA conversions by using an all digital version like the nanodigi dsp and putting it in between my source and my dac? 
 

 

Yes, that's exackly what I do!

 

My signal chain is:

  • phono stage --> ADC --> digital source selector
  • digital sources --> digital source selector

Then digital source selector --> nanoDIGI 2x8 --> 4x Topping E30 DACs --> active subs & active 3-way mains.

 

nanoDIGI gives me:

  • 4-way XOs
  • room EQ, and
  • delay for the mains.

 

And, I get to use:

  • a better quality DAC on output than my previous miniDSP 10x10HD included
  • and a better ADC than it has.

 

Andy

 

Edited by andyr
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45 minutes ago, krisk321 said:

 

with regards to picking between the two, i guess my question would be if i use the SHD , then the front LR speakers will run off a different DAC to the subwoofers. could 

this lead to mismatched SQ

 

would it be better using SHD Studio and using two of the same DACS?

 

 

I have the SHD Studio and use two different DAC's. This is just my opinion but the difference in DAC's is extremely minimal and for bass frequencies that extremely minimal becomes extremely minimal again.

 

With this kind of setup you can turn off the upper or lower frequency providing DAC to hear what it sounds like with a high pass or low pass filter respectively just on their own. Even with my subwoofers low pass filtered as high as 80Hz they just sounds like "gurgling" noises and not at all "musical" own their own without the upper main speakers contributing.

Edited by Satanica
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What’s your preamp?
 

I run a stereo preamp with a sub output and this lets me tune in the crossover (if I elect to do so) in the preamp.
 

From there you can run a single sub signal into something like a minidsp and then split it to both subs. 
 

in my setup I have two preamps (one HT and one stereo) and use the mini dsp to sum their individual sub signals in a multiplexing type setup.

 

regardless, I agree with the guys above, less adc/dac is much better. 

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Where are you guys buying your minidsp products from ? Is it direct from their website ? 

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8 hours ago, krisk321 said:

Where are you guys buying your minidsp products from ? Is it direct from their website ? 

 

Yes.

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I have played around with this a fair bit.

 

A preamp with 2 or more simultaneously active preouts helps a lot. Many have this.

 

Depending on what SVS sub you are planning they are very flexible and are no different to SQ in the chain to a HPF or MIniDSP/others though some MiniDSP can/will cause clipping if I am not mistaken due to low output voltage, not ideal.

 

Can you please let us know what you have or planning to buy?

 

If you have the subs already why not try it first and not over complicate things?

 

If you are looking at or have the SVS models with DSP they can do high pass filter, time alignment, PEQ etc and depending what software you use you can do full room EQ at the PC stage anyway. Maybe not as simple as Dirac but possible.

 

All this said I have found the benefits of high passing the mains to not really be worth it (might be if using very low powered amp ie under 10w) and I have seen many 2 channel systems with subs that run mains full range too. It is fun to play around though and use the options available

 

Anyways please let us know the gear and I would advise keep it simple and add things later if needed.

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I am planning to use an Oppo BDP-103 as the source into a Cambridge CXA 80 Integrated Amplifier into a pair of Klipsch RP-8000fs as Front L/R Speakers.  

 

 

then I have 2 x SVS PB 13 Ultra subwoofers I want to integrate into the chain.

 

then i need to do the following - 

limit full range to front speakers

add subwoofer crossover

add sub EQ 

 

Id like to do this whilst maintaining the best level of SQ , what i mean by that is reducing AD/DA conversions, having flexibility to change my dac/preamp as I need to. as down the track i will get a separate dac and pre amp rather than using the integrated. 

 

I also have a 2 channel stereo amplifier (NAD C272) which I will only use in the signal chain if i have to break out the pre amp from the amp as im happy with the SQ out of the Cambridge or i'll use it when i get a separate dac/preamp and stop using the integrated. 

 

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