Why no Denon?

[Gambit 1870]

I was thinking the other day and it occurred to me, that I never really hear about Denon equipment or for that matter see any components come through the classifieds??

 

I still have my old 3808 doing duties in the kids game room, mainly for xbox duties as I gave up the chase of surround  in favour of 2 channel years ago, I also had a DVD 2930 back then too, which was a great disc spinner, was my first SACD player and provided great upscaling to 1080P.

I can remember looking at the audio gear back in the day thinking how nice it looked, but never really got to listen to the higher end stuff...

Did it fall victim to being out of the same factory as Marantz or was it just not as good as other gear in that price point and was relying on it's name.

 

I can remember being surprised when the brand showed up in HN with a $1k entry level AVR several years after I paid over $3k for my 3808, maybe that was when they bailed out of the higher end market?

 

 

[Fangzie]

it looks like the Denon AV receivers still range from entry level right through to high end. But their stereo components haven't really offered the same for I think at least 10 years. They've been more on the AV train than anything else. Taking a quick look at the ir current range, they offer a handful of entry level integrated amps and then one sitting at about the $5k-ish mark, which really lets you know it's not a market they're super invested in, unlike their sister company Marantz.

 

I also think they likely have trouble competing against a lot of the better (currently) known players in that market as I recall them sounding a little on the boring side

[NIN]

It is simply business strategy.

 

Longine omega and tissot all belong to swatch group and their price range hardly overlap.

 

Obviously they want to emphasize marantz and make denon a av brand. Thats it.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by NIN

[Dean Gale]

Spot on Nin think they backed the wrong horse there hate Marantz with a passion ( story for another day ). 

[Gambit 1870]

23 minutes ago, NIN said:

It is simply business strategy.

 

 

Obviously they want to emphasize marantz and make denon a av brand. Thats it.

 

Which is interesting in itself, as they're competing against themselves in the AV market ?

23 minutes ago, NIN said:

 

 

[NIN]

18 minutes ago, Gambit 1870 said:

 

Which is interesting in itself, as they're competing against themselves in the AV market ?

 

Segregation of market.

 

You can do it in so many ways, prices, brand images, functionalities.

 

Sorry I can't explain too much details here.

Edited April 6, 2021 by NIN

[NIN]

17 minutes ago, Gambit 1870 said:

 

Which is interesting in itself, as they're competing against themselves in the AV market ?

 

For more details please refer to here:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_segmentation

 

Wikipedia is not 100% academically solid, but you can get a rough idea.

[audiofeline]

I think that vintage Denon has a lot of respect.  I've got an integrated amp from the 80's that not only is good in it's own right, it has been a great backup when my pre- or power amp has needed repairs (the integrated can have pre/power separated). 

 

The vintage Denon turntables range in quality (as one would expect from a company that produced from consumer level to audiophile grade).  I've always like the "flying saucer" design.  Their better quality turntables are well-regarded, and don't come on the secondhand market often because they are well appreciated.  And the Denon DL103 MC cartridge is regarded as a classic and is still available today.  And their professional broadcast arms and equipment is also excellent. 

 

However, as has occurred with so many audio brands with well-deserved reputations, over time they have been taken over by big corporations who trade on their previous good name but force them to forgo quality for profits.  I feel sad seeing so many respected brands become just another mass-consumer label. 

 

[stereo coffee]

31 minutes ago, NIN said:

For more details please refer to here:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_segmentation

 

Wikipedia is not 100% academically solid, but you can get a rough idea.

Wikipedia is unique in that everyone is able to contribute and edit what is there. if its not as you say academically solid, you can correct, or influence correction of what is there.  This also adds for everyone's advantage that it is pretty well free of bias as well, and in the process significantly benefits society.  

 

 

[NIN]

2 hours ago, stereo coffee said:

Wikipedia is unique in that everyone is able to contribute and edit what is there. if its not as you say academically solid, you can correct, or influence correction of what is there.  This also adds for everyone's advantage that it is pretty well free of bias as well, and in the process significantly benefits society.  

 

 

My suggestion is, is you want to study, trust university textbooks or essay related to the topic.

 

It is not about biased or not, you would understand if you are supposed to.

 

If you just want to know about the context, wikipedia is enough.

 

I never approve the reference of wikipedia for my students in their essay, big no no 

 

Whether to co tribute to wikipedia though, is just personal choice. No comment.

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by NIN

[WasM]

If you look at Pioneer they created TAD as high end division.

Matsushita/National/Panasonic created Technics as dedicated audio division, which has been revived recently as high end.

 

Denon has probably changed structure and objectives since ownership change. Market has changed too. 

Probably mainly targeting consumer to mid level market, leaving the hi end to Marantz.

I hope Denon continue to push their products and stay competitive.

They make some great professional DJ gear.

[Gambit 1870]

5 hours ago, audiofeline said:

However, as has occurred with so many audio brands with well-deserved reputations, over time they have been taken over by big corporations who trade on their previous good name but force them to forgo quality for profits.  I feel sad seeing so many respected brands become just another mass-consumer label. 

I get that, when I saw Denon in HN for the first time I was like WTF????

It kind of sucked the prestige out of owning a high end Denon AVR......or maybe I was just being a pretentious knob

[Dean Gale]

Actually I like the computer gear from Harvey Norman so I see no problem in them selling Denon AVR Stuff or stereo , the less snobbery of who sells gear the better. I have a number of friends who love great sound and their biggest reason for not buying , Dacs or SACD players good speakers or hi end gear was due to a bad experience in a hi fi dealer show room because they got treated like a fool . I had similar at a dealer near Camberwell Junction vowed I would never go back 

[Hydrology]

2 minutes ago, DEANO23 said:

Actually I like the computer gear from Harvey Norman so I see no problem in them selling Denon AVR Stuff or stereo , the less snobbery of who sells gear the better. I have a number of friends who love great sound and their biggest reason for not buying , Dacs or SACD players good speakers or hi end gear was due to a bad experience in a hi fi dealer show room because they got treated like a fool . I had similar at a dealer near Camberwell Junction vowed I would never go back 

 

I think bad experiences are everywhere, not just limited to bespoke hifi stores. My work journey in Perth takes me past most of the HN stores in the stretch north of the river here in Perth and I will ONLY deal with one guy at the one store - he knows his stuff and isn't an ass!

 

[audiofeline]

3 hours ago, WasM said:

...[Denon's] Probably mainly targeting consumer to mid level market, leaving the hi end to Marantz...

And I see Marantz in a similar way - another company that had a solid audio reputation, that was destroyed by corporate greed. 

 

[fordute]

Wouldn't say no.

 

[digitalhome]

16 minutes ago, audiofeline said:

And I see Marantz in a similar way - another company that had a solid audio reputation, that was destroyed by corporate greed. 

 

This I totally agree with! Poor reliability of their AV equipment hasn't helped.

[Gambit 1870]

2 hours ago, fordute said:

Wouldn't say no.

 

That's a beautiful looking amp! 

[Grimmie]

Agree, very cool. Wonder what the model is, can't make it out.

[mattd2308]

3 hours ago, Grimmie said:

Agree, very cool. Wonder what the model is, can't make it out.

PMA SX11

Yep,not a bad looking amp, along with their other gear which is sold only in Japan. 

[fordute]

4 hours ago, mattd2308 said:

PMA SX11

Yep,not a bad looking amp, along with their other gear which is sold only in Japan. 

Friend of mine is in the process of importing one and matching SACD player.

Cant wait to hear them.

[betty boop]

in australia they sell the PM2500ne big daddy 2ch integrated....

 

the dcd 2500ne is the matching Reference CD/Super Audio CD Player

 

https://www.denon.com/en-au/shop/cdsacdplayer/dcd2500ne

 

 

this is good well made gear...

 

[Guest Eggcup the Dafter]

There's some prejudice against both Denon and Marantz stereo products (and to an extent Yamaha) in my experience.

 

When you prefer one of these brands to other "audiophile marques" you can invoke the wrath of devotees of those other brands. I've not had that here but have had a few nasty comments IRL (funny, because that sort of thing usually happens the other way round!)
 

I can happily recommend both the PMA 2500 and the A-110 stereo amps, in particular, to anyone with those needs. The DAC in the PMA2500 is average, and there are no balanced inputs in either of these, which may put some people off, but the overall sound quality is as good as anything at the price. i've not heard much of the lower level items so can't comment. The SACD players ditto. Even if I didn't buy them in the end...

 

I could quite understand people buying Denon equipment holding on to it, either not upgrading, or here, as backup or for second systems - and that may also explain the lack of items in the classifieds. They do turn up in other places from time to time.

[mattd2308]

On 07/04/2021 at 10:45 AM, Eggcup the Dafter said:

There's some prejudice against both Denon and Marantz stereo products (and to an extent Yamaha) in my experience.

 

When you prefer one of these brands to other "audiophile marques" you can invoke the wrath of devotees of those other brands. I've not had that here but have had a few nasty comments IRL (funny, because that sort of thing usually happens the other way round!)
 

I can happily recommend both the PMA 2500 and the A-110 stereo amps, in particular, to anyone with those needs. The DAC in the PMA2500 is average, and there are no balanced inputs in either of these, which may put some people off, but the overall sound quality is as good as anything at the price. i've not heard much of the lower level items so can't comment. The SACD players ditto. Even if I didn't buy them in the end...

 

I could quite understand people buying Denon equipment holding on to it, either not upgrading, or here, as backup or for second systems - and that may also explain the lack of items in the classifieds. They do turn up in other places from time to time.

As i have been a loyal supporter of Denon gear, stems back to when i bought my 1500r from Secher Audio back in 2000-01. They had in stock some of their really premium gear, of which you thought, they'd be nice. Still have catalogs/brochures of that series of components.  Partial to Japanese engineering and manufacturing i suppose. 

Had Yamaha gear from late 80's-90's, of which I still have my CDC 805 player, bought in 1990 from Chisholm Hifi in Horsham(one with digital equalizer - jazz, rock, classic etc) Just need to get laser attended to. Still plays, however bit temperamental in wanting to go to next track!

As for my 2500ne Thanks (bettyboop) for attaching mine, am very satisfied with its performance and sound. Pretty simplistic, t/table, cd player, speakers. Maybe one day they may reach cult status like Sansui, of which they were obviously in their prime in 70' and 80's. From what I've seen here on Stereonet, they manufactured some serious integrateds. I only remember their mini and micro systems, post heydays that were sold in Brashs and Kmarts etc.

Hifi shark and even ebay have some pretty lustworthy  Denon gear from Japanese domestic market.  Sigh, oh well...one day.

 

[Guest Eggcup the Dafter]

1 hour ago, mattd2308 said:

As i have been a loyal supporter of Denon gear, stems back to when i bought my 1500r from Secher Audio back in 2000-01. They had in stock some of their really premium gear, of which you thought, they'd be nice. Still have catalogs/brochures of that series of components.  Partial to Japanese engineering and manufacturing i suppose. 

Had Yamaha gear from late 80's-90's, of which I still have my CDC 805 player, bought in 1990 from Chisholm Hifi in Horsham(one with digital equalizer - jazz, rock, classic etc) Just need to get laser attended to. Still plays, however bit temperamental in wanting to go to next track!

As for my 2500ne Thanks (bettyboop) for attaching mine, am very satisfied with its performance and sound. Pretty simplistic, t/table, cd player, speakers. Maybe one day they may reach cult status like Sansui, of which they were obviously in their prime in 70' and 80's. From what I've seen here on Stereonet, they manufactured some serious integrateds. I only remember their mini and micro systems, post heydays that were sold in Brashs and Kmarts etc.

Hifi shark and even ebay have some pretty lustworthy  Denon gear from Japanese domestic market.  Sigh, oh well...one day.

 

Denon's history includes being in right at the beginning with digital, and also some hefty turntables back in the 1980s. They have quite an astounding history in audio engineering.

 

Then again, they introduced the first "audio" Ethernet cable as well...