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14 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

Voltage controlled amplifier exist for nothing more than convenience.... it is not what any smart person would go to if beginning with a blank sheet of paper.

 

Unless the person was designing an amplifier meant to work with any off-the-shelf passive loudspeaker. Or designing an active loudspeaker costing less than $20k ;)

 

 

 

Edited by Steffen
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@JkSpinner did your original question get answered? the thread seemed to go in multiple directions...   possibly not - especially at high volumes Most of the below has been said above

I hate to say it and I’ll say it once; “stop linking marketing BS”.    Do some research and look at how some of the most the respected designers and you’ll see how to design something that can be a “s

That's just how you see it and wish for it to happen. Unfortunately no matter how much you wish for it, I'm quite sure that apart from perhaps some exceptional examples, won't be happening any time so

44 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

 

Voltage controlled amplifier exist for nothing more than convenience.... it is not what any smart person would go to if beginning with a blank sheet of paper.

 

 

Here's a comment on 'current amplifiers' from an amp designer:

 

Just about all loudspeakers which are designed for SS are set up for voltage drive, that is, a voltage source as the amp.  This accommodates the back emf which is produced by the moving magnet coil.  Pass has done some current amps, sometimes described as current source amps, but they are only suitable with specialist drivers, like Lowthers, which is pretty the same as a tube amp.  The benefit of SS amps is damping factor - so control over bass, with prodigious power.

 

You can design a SS amp to measure current for fb and such an amp is designed for balalaika amp guitars.  It is done to simulate a tube amp, particularly with a very high impedance tube like a pentode.  Such amps give a very tubey sound, delicate, but no sense of real power.  In truth, most people would not like perfect current feedback because it is 'wimpy' and the balalaika guitar amp uses a combination of current and conventional voltage fb.  Current amps need to use a very stiff, low compliance voice coil/cone to sound good, to maintain mechanical control over the excursion because the amp does not have a low impedance, that is, it does not have a high DF.

 

I bolded what sprung out at me as the vital issues.  :)

 

Andy

 

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Basically you need a matched pair of current amp with the speakers it was designed for in mind. Excepting the case of active speakers, why would any manufacturer make an amp that only suits one speaker and vice versa? Voltage drive is here to stay.

Edited by Ittaku
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1 hour ago, davewantsmoore said:

Correct.

 

 

Sorry OP - Most people will consider this off topic  (it's very related to impedance.... but a bit far out from the question which was being asked)  :) 

 

My loose interpretation of it is, simply an extension of what Bruno has said loudly for a long time.   Feedback isn't bad..... unless it is used poorly (it's a powerful tool, with great responsibility, etc).    The whole simple argument of "current drive" is the question of what is it that we are trying to control.    The voltage?  No (it's borderline irrelevant) .....  the current is what is relevant.

 

Well designed voltage feedback... is great and all (better than badly designed)..... but trying to control the wrong thing is quite daft.

 

Voltage controlled amplifier exist for nothing more than convenience.... it is not what any smart person would go to if beginning with a blank sheet of paper.

So if I was (hypothetically) designing a DIY active speaker with off the shelf components, where would I get a current drive amp and how would I ensure it worked well with the speakers?

 

 

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22 hours ago, Steffen said:

Unless the person was designing an amplifier meant to work with any off-the-shelf passive loudspeaker.

That's precisely what I mean by "convenience".    So amplifier designers and speaker designers can be different people.   Daft.

 

22 hours ago, Steffen said:

Or designing an active loudspeaker costing less than $20k ;)

Cost has nothing to do with it.     The $1 speaker in your mobile phone is just as applicable.

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21 hours ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

So if I was (hypothetically) designing a DIY active speaker with off the shelf components, where would I get a current drive amp and how would I ensure it worked well with the speakers?

 

There are few I know of "off the shelf"....  having it "work well" with the speakers is not different to "normal".  In that you EQ drivers to your target responses (regardless of whether using filters before or after the amplifier).

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22 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

That's precisely what I mean by "convenience".    So amplifier designers and speaker designers can be different people.   Daft.

 

They can be the same people if they want, it doesn’t really matter. Customers want to mix and match components, so there have to be (more or less) standardised interfaces between them. Those interfaces happen to be defined in terms of voltage, and response to voltage signals. You can get proprietary all-in-one solutions that don’t care about these interface conventions, or even mention speaker and amplifier specifications. BlueTooth speakers, or Apple Homepods, for example. But see below. They don’t play in the same ballpark. 

 

24 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

Cost has nothing to do with it.     The $1 speaker in your mobile phone is just as applicable.

 

Are we still talking about home stereo? Because in a home stereo setting, a $1 mobile phone speaker will sound like $1, at best.

 

The idea of all-in-one lock-in doesn’t seem to be palatable to most people investing in a home stereo setup, unless the gamble is worth it by promising huge advances in sound quality. Hence the Kii-style $20k+ price tags.

 

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22 hours ago, andyr said:

  It is done to simulate a tube amp, particularly with a very high impedance tube like a pentode.  Such amps give a very tubey sound,

 

Off topic, but these days I believe the way to go is modelling with a good DSP.    The best sounding replacement for a Fender Twin Reverb tube amp  is done this way in my Mustang GT.   Bonus, I can switch in a Showman's JBL speakers, or a Vibraverb amp circuit  and much more, at will.  I can also adjust the bias on the fly, and even tweak the power supply sag.

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41 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

 

There are few I know of "off the shelf"....  having it "work well" with the speakers is not different to "normal".  In that you EQ drivers to your target responses (regardless of whether using filters before or after the amplifier).

I find it difficult to understand where you can say "few I know of" and "normal" in the same sentence WRT this.

 

22 hours ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

So if I was (hypothetically) designing a DIY active speaker with off the shelf components, where would I get a current drive amp and how would I ensure it worked well with the speakers?

Either you can easily buy off-the-shelf current amps for a project like this, or you can't. As far as I'm aware, you can't - so at this point, off-the-shelf voltage drive is the only option.

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18 minutes ago, Cloth Ears said:

"normal"

Normal with respect to how you would normally design a speaker (the question was how would I get my DIY speaker to work well with a "current source" amplifier).   You measure the driver responses, and correct them to your target.

 

18 minutes ago, Cloth Ears said:

Either you can easily buy off-the-shelf current amps for a project like this, or you can't. As far as I'm aware, you can't - so at this point, off-the-shelf voltage drive is the only option.

Yes, that's right.

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36 minutes ago, Steffen said:

Customers want to mix and match components

Yes.... I don't think it's a good idea.

 

36 minutes ago, Steffen said:

Are we still talking about home stereo? Because in a home stereo setting, a $1 mobile phone speaker will sound like $1, at best.

Of course.

 

You made the point that someone would (be smart to) use "voltage drive" in an active speaker which cost < 20K.    My point is that speakers at any price point could be "current drive".     Cost has nothing to do with it.

 

Replace my comment about "TV/mobile" with "$2000 active loudspeaker"....  same difference.

 

36 minutes ago, Steffen said:

The idea of all-in-one lock-in doesn’t seem to be palatable to most people investing in a home stereo setup

Indeed....  that doesn't mean it's smart, of course.

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27 minutes ago, Cloth Ears said:

off-the-shelf voltage drive is the only option.

 

6 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

Yes, that's right.

 

 

So where's the problem? :)    It's not as if the result cannot be a fantastic sounding system.

 

 

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23 hours ago, andyr said:

This accommodates the back emf which is produced by the moving magnet coil.

?

LOL

 

This is precisely the point of why one would want to avoid voltage drive.

 

23 hours ago, andyr said:

 Pass has done some current amps, sometimes described as current source amps, but they are only suitable with specialist drivers, like Lowthers

Not really.   The work with such drivers with out any type of filter (ie. no XO filter etc, like in a typical speaker)...... but they can work with any drivers with the appropriate crossover filter (which is no different from "voltage drive")

 

 

23 hours ago, andyr said:

The benefit of SS amps is damping factor - so control over bass

Nonsense.

 

 

23 hours ago, andyr said:

You can design a SS amp to measure current for fb and such an amp is designed for balalaika amp guitars.  It is done to simulate a tube amp, particularly with a very high impedance tube like a pentode.  Such amps give a very tubey sound, delicate, but no sense of real power.

 

Yes... you don't have to design a current source amplifier to "sound different" in this way.

 

 

23 hours ago, andyr said:

In truth, most people would not like perfect current feedback because it is 'wimpy'

 

Nonsense.

 

23 hours ago, andyr said:

Current amps need to use a very stiff, low compliance voice coil/cone to sound good, to maintain mechanical control over the excursion because the amp does not have a low impedance, that is, it does not have a high DF.

 

This assume that no other method in the speaker is used to give a "flat" response.

 

It is correct to say that if a "voltage source" and a "current source" amp is the only difference in the system.... then they will have a different frequency response.   The CS will have more output around the speaker resonance, providing the "illusion" of less "control".

 

Methods must be taken in the system design to correct for this.

 

One way (a daft way) to try to do that would be to use a driver with low cms (compliance).

 

23 hours ago, andyr said:

I bolded what sprung out at me as the vital issues.  :)

 

In short, the bits you highlighted are basically false.

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13 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

So where's the problem? :)    It's not as if the result cannot be a fantastic sounding system.

 

I'm not sure I understand?

 

Are you asking something like ....."if voltage drive can result in a fantastic sounding system, then why not just use it?"

 

If so.... "because you can do it much better... and not unsurprisingly it sounds significantly better".

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5 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

Are you asking something like ....."if voltage drive can result in a fantastic sounding system, then why not just use it?"

 

If so.... "because you can do it much better... and not unsurprisingly it sounds significantly better".

 

But then, why aren’t we seeing that? I.e. significantly better sound at a comparable price?

 

All I can see is significantly worse sound at a budget, or great sound for a price that, if I may say so, excludes the majority of HiFi lovers.

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8 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

 

I'm not sure I understand?

 

Are you asking something like ....."if voltage drive can result in a fantastic sounding system, then why not just use it?"

 

If so.... "because you can do it much better... and not unsurprisingly it sounds significantly better".

 

 

So, you are saying current source amplifiers are (in general) always better sounding?

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9 minutes ago, Steffen said:

 

But then, why aren’t we seeing that? I.e. significantly better sound at a comparable price?

 

 

 

To some extent we are seeing that - think SGRs or KIIs

 

As to why it's not more prevalent, I suspect that has less to do with actual sound quality and more to do with sales and distribution (all-in-one speakers destroy the additional margin that comes from selling amps, preamps, dacs and all the associated cabling)

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1 minute ago, aussievintage said:

So, you are saying current source amplifiers are (in general) always better sounding?

 

Yes..... in general.   There is systemic distortion that is part of "voltage drive" which can be avoided.   If we look at a moving coil loudspeakers electrical properties while it is moving ....... it becomes obvious that using the coil as a "voltage to current converter" to recover the music signal, is a crazy-bad idea.

 

But like many/most things this is an "all else being equal" type of thing.    Without dramatically changing the speaker design, then a VS vs a CS amplifier will sound strikingly different as the speaker won't have the same frequency response.

 

Depending on the speaker, switching to a CS amp (without changing anything) might sound better or worse, if you "like" the  specific change in the frequency response.  Typical modern multiway speakers have an electrical impedance rise at low frequencies, sometimes high frequencies, and at the crossover points .... so the FR could get quite lumpy.

 

 

It's not all roses of course .... not everything can be magically fixed  (the electrical impedance of the driver still fluctuates) .... but by taking control of the signal (the current) via feedback, it can be a marked improvement.

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I reckon that if we see a broad adoption of integrated active solutions then this will not be by transitioning from controlling voltage to controlling current. I think we’ll skip right over that and go to controlling membrane position.

 

This has been done for decades, to a certain extent and with varying success. Designing an automatic controller to keep the instantaneous position of the membrane linked to the instantaneous amplitude of the input signal is almost trivial, but the implementation isn’t. With high-speed digital processing and sufficient power and bandwidth this will eventually be possible.

 

Until then, we’ll have to concern ourselves with things like speaker impedance :)

 

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39 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

 

To some extent we are seeing that - think SGRs or KIIs

 

 

Sure, if money is no object. But can you take a typical, say, $3k+$6k amp+speaker combination, and replace it with a current control setup that costs the same but sounds better? No. One that sounds the same but costs less? No.

 

In other words, the prevailing voltage control approach is not daft, it is simply the most cost effective approach in the price regions that are of interest to the majority of customers.

 

 

Edited by Steffen
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5 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

There is systemic distortion that is part of "voltage drive" which can be avoided.   If we look at a moving coil loudspeakers electrical properties while it is moving ....... it becomes obvious that using the coil as a "voltage to current converter" to recover the music signal, is a crazy-bad idea.

 

 

"crazy-bad" implies an awful impact on the sound quality, is it really that bad in practice?

If you have a voltage drive amp that can respond to the changing electrical properties of moving speakers, why wouldn't this be "good enough"?

 

Or put another way, what improvements does current drive provide to the sound that ultimately comes out of the speaker (is it lower distortion, flatter FR etc?) 

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28 minutes ago, Steffen said:

But then, why aren’t we seeing that? I.e. significantly better sound at a comparable price?

 

That's a complex question.....  but point was only that such an amplifier costs no more or less to build.... and uses the same speaker drivers, etc .... so there is no need for it to cost more  (aside from business 101 = sell product for as much $ as the market will bear).

 

28 minutes ago, Steffen said:

significantly worse sound at a budget

I'm not sure why you say that.

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4 minutes ago, Steffen said:

 

Sure, if money is no object. But can you take a typical, say, $3k+$6k amp+speaker combination, and replace it with a current control setup that costs the same but sounds better? No. One that sounds the same but costs less? No.

 

In other words, the current voltage control approach is not daft, it is simply the most cost effective approach in the price regions that are of interest to the majority of customers.

 

I guess it's a chicken and egg thing, we are seeing current drive coming in at the expensive end and also at the very cheap non-audiophile end, perhaps the tech will trickle down/up to the middle of that range.

 

Having said that, there are still precious few current-drive systems at the high end. I still reckon a big reason for that is the lack of profit margins and tweak-ability

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13 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

Without dramatically changing the speaker design, then a VS vs a CS amplifier will sound strikingly different

 

13 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

Depending on the speaker, switching to a CS amp (without changing anything) might sound better or worse,

 

14 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

It's not all roses of course .... not everything can be magically fixed  (the electrical impedance of the driver still fluctuates) .... but by taking control of the signal (the current) via feedback, it can be a marked improvement.

 

I am seeing it as -  the best of the best comparison between the two types would lean towards the current drive.  Other than that, it is pretty much a case of maybe.

 

Combos of voltage drive amps and speakers that are known to work well, always seems to me to be the best bet.  Of course that would be true for current drive, but they a much less common and much less well known.

 

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4 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

"crazy-bad" implies an awful impact on the sound quality, is it really that bad in practice?

 

Circa 20dB of non-linear distortion....    but it depends a lot on the amplifier and drivers in question.

 

On one hand there are things much more audible (eg. linear distortion).... and NLD can be quite benign when below certain levels.

 

... but I think we find that this type of voltage-drive distortion is more audible than expected as it is not constant (ie. it's related to cone velocity) ..... kinda insidious in a way, like "jitter".

 

 

4 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

Or put another way, what improvements does current drive provide to the sound that ultimately comes out of the speaker (is it lower distortion, flatter FR etc?) 

 

It's lower non-linear distortion.

 

It's also lower linear distortion due to temperature effects (ie. frequency response doesn't change due to changes in VC resistance) .... but for hifi this is usually a corner case.

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5 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

 

I guess it's a chicken and egg thing, we are seeing current drive coming in at the expensive end and also at the very cheap non-audiophile end, perhaps the tech will trickle down/up to the middle of that range.

 

Maybe... as was already mentioned.   Not while we have people mixing and matching systems.... and loudspeaker designers who want to make a speaker which can be driven by any amplifier (for many reasons, either they may not understand the issue, or they may think it's what the "market wants", or both, etc).

 

5 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

I still reckon a big reason for that is the lack of profit margins and tweak-ability

 

Yes.... and many players in the high-end are exclusively either amplifier OR speaker manufacturers.

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  • 4 weeks later...

JkSpinner,

I did Electronic Engineering years ago. One crazy thing that has stayed within my head's old grey matter is that for amplifiers, maximum power output is achieved when input impedance & output impedance are equal. Meaning if they are not you will either have losses or risk overdriving your speakers. Bit like having odd sized wheels on your car, they'll still turn but not always efficiently. I may get shouted down but that's the simple way that I've always looked at it.

Regards,

Alan...

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Sorry, Alan ... can you explain that a bit further - as what I read doesn't make much sense!  :(

 

You said:

 

9 minutes ago, Playitloud said:

 

I did Electronic Engineering years ago. One crazy thing that has stayed within my head's old grey matter is that for amplifiers, maximum power output is achieved when input impedance & output impedance are equal.

 

 

But the input impedance (Zin) of a power amp will be anywhere from 10K (rare) through 33K/47K (common) to 100K (typical of a tube amp).

 

Whereas the output impedance (Zout) of a power amp will typically be much less than an ohm.

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Playitloud said:

maximum power output is achieved when input impedance & output impedance are equal.

 

You are thinking of the maximum power transfer theorem.  It doesn't apply here,  and even if did, it would be referring to the output impedance of the amp, and the (input) impedance of the speaker.

 

Modern amps have a very low output impedance and drive the higher impedances of modern speakers (4, 8, 16 ohms)

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Well, I knew I'd probably light up the tech gurus & others.

 

Yes, I was inferring to the Amp's (working) output impedance & input impedance of the speakers. Whilst the exact science (static resistance of the Amp's output stage) & calc's may not directly apply, due to varying frequencies etc, most manufacturers will still quote a range within which their amplifiers will more happily match the speakers; thus providing greatest efficiencies. That is all I meant, my sincere apologies to the electronic purests!

 

Head down,

Alan...

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Posted (edited)

 

On 03/05/2021 at 4:40 PM, Playitloud said:

Whilst the exact science (static resistance of the Amp's output stage) & calc's may not directly apply, due to varying frequencies etc, most manufacturers will still quote a range within which their amplifiers will more happily match the speakers; thus providing greatest efficiencies.

As @aussievintage says, the maximum power transfer theorem does not apply.

Solid state amps typically have an output impedance orders of magnitude lower than speakers, valve amps usually have a higher output impedance than solid state amps, but still much lower than speakers.

The "range" of speaker impedance an amp can drive is about the amps' current delivery while maintaining voltage...which of course relates to the amp's output impedance, but "matching" an amp's output impedance to a speaker's input impedance is not something desirable with typical amps/speakers (eg amps that try to be constant voltage sources) 

 

Maybe with current drive speakers and amps/EQ set up to drive them "maximum power transfer" would be a thing?

 

Mike

 

 

Edited by almikel
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On 03/05/2021 at 4:01 PM, Playitloud said:

One crazy thing that has stayed within my head's old grey matter is that for amplifiers, maximum power output is achieved when input impedance & output impedance are equal.

 

There is no shame in misunderstanding or misinterpreting the maximum power transfer theorem, since James Prescott Joule himself did so :)

 

It is all explained (along with the common misconceptions) here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_power_transfer_theorem

 

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      Caution about system matching. Although the sensitivity is specified at 90 dB, measurements show that the actual figure is around 88 dB, which is absolutely fine. However, the impedance drops sometimes down to 2.8 Om, and combined with a rated power handling of 1kWt it makes one understand that low-powered amplifiers will not be welcomed here. Ideally one should partner Magico Q3 with such amplifiers as Vitus Audio, Musical Fidelity Titan and like. We tried two Devialet models and the smaller 170 could not master these difficult speakers. So most of the listening was done using the top of the line Devialet 240, which proved to be an excellent choice, only to be bettered by two Devialet 240’s in bridge mode. As for the cables, we used different sets from Argento, Valhalla and Arkana Research and were very pleased with results.



      When unpacking the Magico Q3 you immediately notice, besides the sleek appearance and the substantial weight the complete absence of protective grills. On one hand, it benefits the sound quality – any grill alters the sound to some extent, on the other hand, even though the Nano Tec drivers should do absolutely fine without protection, the naked beryllium dome seems exposed. As you may know, beryllium is quite toxic during production or when heated, but once finished it is quite safe to use at home (unless you heat it up to 2000 C or grate it with diamond abrasive). However, as per Magico’s manual, should you damage or break the dome, you are to seal the front panel with duct tape, collect all the shards, put them in a hermetically closed bag and send the speaker for repair. The main danger that the shards present is that you cut yourself or accidentally swallow them. According to other manufacturers of beryllium tweeters (such as ScanSpeak), the dome is actually very strong, so it is unlikely to break even if poked with a finger. Anyway, a small protective grille would be welcome; most other manufacturers – from Focal to Revel – always try to protect their beryllium domes.



      One of the benefits of a sealed box speaker is that it is much less sensitive to placement in a room than vented designs, but there is a downside. Such speakers generally require a very muscular amplification, and Magicos are a perfect example. And since there is just one binding post per speaker, you can forget bi-amping Q3s. Another thing to consider – these speakers take a very long time to burn in and start to sound their best after a least three months of continuous use. So if you decide to give them a listen don’t expect magic right out of the box, and always ask the demo person how long they have been run in for, as their stiff suspension really requires a long time to loosen up.


      The resulting sound will be absolutely worth your while. You will understand just why Magico are so praised today by audiophiles all over the world. "Best components – best drivers – best speakers ever”, such are the adjectives often used to describe their performance! Indeed, the Q3 throw a huge and deep soundstage with plenty of layers and pinpoint imaging. The complete lack of cabinet resonance makes speakers truly disappear; the room just seems simply filled with music, sometimes it even seems that sounds come from outside the walls! The high frequencies are superbly detailed, always remaining an integral part of the music rather than being pushed forward for a false sense of detail. Magico Q3 have uncommon resolving capabilities, you hear so much more into the well know recordings, but at the same time this does not distract you from the music. All the timbres are faithfully reproduced, instruments are incredibly real, you feel compelled to reach out and touch them. Yet there is no artificial coloring, speakers are wonderfully honest and transparent, one of the best in that regard. The all-important midrange is outstandingly present, making voices sound so eerily real. The bass lovers may feel shortchanged at first, but after a while you start to appreciate the cleanliness of the low registers. What you thought was bass before were just room resonance and midbass thickness. When a powerful and punchy bass line is present in a recording, Magico Q3 will hit you in chest like nothing else. The sound they reproduce absolutely belies their moderate size.


      And what about emotions, do Magico Q3 convey them? Actually, one of the main strengths of any good speaker is its capability to play all kinds of music equally well. If speakers make you cry when playing your favorite jazz and classical music, but fall flat on their faces reproducing rock and hip-hop, you know you have "genre-challenged” setup. Believe me – after a while you will inevitably find fault even with how they play jazz and classical, and you will be back in the shop for another upgrade. Truly great speakers don’t have a preference for a specific kind of music, be it Dvorak of Infected Mushroom. When a recording is great, they will deliver greatness, if it’s a dud, well, they will let you hear in all its ”glory”. So, how do Magico Q3 fare? In fact, they are absolutely at home with any type of music. "Samson and Delilah” by Saint-Saens will surprise you with sheer scale and power of attack. Listening to Beethoven’s opus 27 will make you literally see a piano materialize in your room. Manowar will grasp you by the throat, just as it should, Jethro Tull are always playful and colorful, with a brilliant rhythm section. Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath, Rihanna, Eminem, you name it, Magico Q3 never run out of breath. But best of all, they don’t just reproduce beautiful sounds, they play music and that alone will make you want stop your painful quest for perfect sound. This is where you stop looking around and only – maybe –sometimes wonder what bigger Magicos may offer.

      We like – the best of the two worlds – detail and transparency of electrostatics with a punch of a huge traditional woofer

      We don’t like – very limited choice of suitable amplifiers, no protective grill on the tweeter

      Verdict – one of the rare truly innovative speakers; a small step for a company and a quantum leap for the high end audio market     CNC machining of the MAGICO Q3 faceplate...      
       

       
       

       
       

       
       

       
       

       
       

       
       

       
       

       
       
       
       
       

       
       

       
       
       
       
       

       
       

       
       

       
       

       
       

       
       

       
       

       
       

       
       

       
       

       
       

       

       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
    • By dnostereo
      Item Condition: Good + Shipping Options: Pickup available and you can audition.,Shipping is available at agreed cost. Suburb or Town: Mornington State: VIC Payment Method: EFT, Cash. Reason for selling: Keeping Tannoys. Further information:
       
      Further information: 
      For Sale: Dynaudio Contour 1.3 SE.
      In excellent condition besides just 3 things...
      1. Some coffee cup stains on the tops.
      2. One broken speaker bind; can still be used or replaced very easy as the same type is readily available online affordably.
      3. Slight ware on the corner of one of the covers.
      All can be seen in pics.
       
      Besides the above, they are pretty much in perfect condition also as can see in pics.
       
      Beautiful speakers with incredible room filling and great imaging sound.
       
      These were the special edition version which sold in Australia for the equivalent of over $9000 in todays money. 
       
      Pickup Mornington or can be couriered/posted at buyers expense. 
       
      Photos:

       
      PLEASE READ
      If you include any reference to pricing whatsoever in this section (excluding RRP), your ad will not be approved If you are advertising multiple items, you must post one bulk price only, or post seperate ads for each item If you don't include photographs of the actual item being sold, your ad will not be approved You understand that a reasonable donation for selling fees is expected upon successful sale of your item
      - if you have previously sold items and not made a donation, your advertisement may not be approved. Photos:
       
      PLEASE READ
      If you include any reference to pricing whatsoever in this section (excluding RRP), your ad will not be approved If you are advertising multiple items, you must post one bulk price only, or post seperate ads for each item If you don't include photographs of the actual item being sold, your ad will not be approved You understand that a reasonable donation for selling fees is expected upon successful sale of your item
      - if you have previously sold items and not made a donation, your advertisement may not be approved.
    • By zonx
      Item Condition: Excellent Shipping Options: Pickup available and you can audition. Suburb or Town: Taylors Lakes State: VIC Payment Method: Money Transfer Cash Reason for selling: NLR Further information:
       Selling my Osborn Epitome Reference Elite Tower Speakers. 18 months old bought brand new from Osborn with the Elite crossover installed. Jarrah finish. Reason for selling is downsizing. Awesome speakers at a great price. RRP $15500
      Photo:
       
      PLEASE READ
      If you include any reference to pricing whatsoever in this section (excluding RRP), your ad will not be approved If you are advertising multiple items, you must post one bulk price only, or post seperate ads for each item If you don't include photographs of the actual item being sold, your ad will not be approved You understand that a reasonable donation for selling fees is expected upon successful sale of your item
      - if you have previously sold items and not made a donation, your advertisement may not be approved.



    • By BlackCoffee
      Hello, I've just reluctantly listed my ESS-amt 1d's which I love but sadly just aren't practical for my space(/cats!) anymore.
       
      I'm particularly going to miss the open transparent sound of the Heil AMT tweeters which I really love.
       
      Very keen to get some recommendations on speakers with similar relaxed, open sound profile. I play a lot fo jazz, folk, soundtracks, orchestral etc.
       
      Could be bookshelf or floorstanders, budget around $750-$1k. I;v always been a vintage/second-hand buyer before but happy to explore something brand new too.
       
      Thanks,
      M
    • By Believe1980s
      Item Condition: Perfect Shipping Options: Pickup available but audition is not available. Suburb or Town: Hurstville State: NSW Payment Method: PayPal, EFT, Cash on Pickup Reason for selling: Not fit for my speakers Further information:
       

      24 inch (ex spikes) speaker stands.  These things are rock solid, even without filler at around 15kgs.  A little big with my speakers. 
       
      Photos:

       
       
      PLEASE READ
      If you include any reference to pricing whatsoever in this section (excluding RRP), your ad will not be approved If you are advertising multiple items, you must post one bulk price only, or post seperate ads for each item If you don't include photographs of the actual item being sold, your ad will not be approved You understand that a reasonable donation for selling fees is expected upon successful sale of your item
      - if you have previously sold items and not made a donation, your advertisement may not be approved.


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