GregWormald Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 I'm quite happy to have the gear take over the living room, at least while I'm listening. I figure I could move the speakers out of the way if needed for other uses. That's why I'm thinking of trying some 'sliders' under my spikes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.K. Posted April 12, 2021 Author Share Posted April 12, 2021 13 hours ago, GregWormald said: I'm quite happy to have the gear take over the living room, at least while I'm listening. I figure I could move the speakers out of the way if needed for other uses. That's why I'm thinking of trying some 'sliders' under my spikes. Well said! BUT!.. ...in doing so, you may get called back to 'order' by the "one who must be obeyed"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregWormald Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 3 hours ago, Arthur K said: Well said! BUT!.. ...in doing so, you may get called back to 'order' by the "one who must be obeyed"... HA! Not a chance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.K. Posted April 12, 2021 Author Share Posted April 12, 2021 50 minutes ago, GregWormald said: HA! Not a chance. Good Man!!.. "vive la Liberte" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r3x Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 intrigued, i tried this on my hybrid dipole/tl speakers. initially i thought it might have been an improvement in the depth of field, but the more i listened, the more confused it sounded. on my stereo, it also blunted the immediacy that high efficiency speakers like mine give. interesting idea though. as always ymmv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 27 minutes ago, r3x said: intrigued, i tried this on my hybrid dipole/tl speakers. initially i thought it might have been an improvement in the depth of field, but the more i listened, the more confused it sounded. on my stereo, it also blunted the immediacy that high efficiency speakers like mine give. interesting idea though. as always ymmv. If your speakers have a constant directivity.... then it can/will work very well. If OTOH, their response on an angle is not flat .... then it can be really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r3x Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 hour ago, davewantsmoore said: If your speakers have a constant directivity.... then it can/will work very well. If OTOH, their response on an angle is not flat .... then it can be really bad. being a dipole from about 300Hz up, the response off axis isn't going to be that weird and i wasn't listening to them any more off axis than i usually do, just the other side of the horizontal axis. They are pulled out a lot from the front wall, i was hoping that the off axis null might help with the front wall reflection somewhat, but it wasn't to be. I'll have to leave my uber ugly lumps of foam in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloth Ears Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 On 02/04/2021 at 1:06 PM, Arthur K said: LOL! Well!.. This put the cat among the pigeons Dave! Among audiophilia, Bose enjoys a reputation of being "controversial", to say the least. So, after all, toeing the traditional Thiels by 45 deg. enters the controversy territory. But if luminaries like Ken Ishiwata has done this, I think it's safe to experiment and evaluate the results. Two of their 'developments' (Direct/Reflecting and the teeny tiny box speakers) mostly. I'd swear that their professional gear, especially amps, can hold their place alongside more expensive gear (and if they didn't have fan-cooling, I'd still have them!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 23 hours ago, r3x said: being a dipole from about 300Hz up, the response off axis isn't going to be that weird I dont' think that's a very good generalisation. They might be, they might not be. A dipole is a good way to achieve constant directivity to low frequencies.... but not all dipoles do it. Yours might be/not (shrug) .... I'm just talking general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 23 hours ago, r3x said: They are pulled out a lot from the front wall, i was hoping that the off axis null might help with the front wall reflection somewhat, but it wasn't to be. In theory it does... and the sidewalls. But it all depends on the geometry of the room and where you are sitting (and as mentioned, the frequency content of the relfected and direct sounds) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.K. Posted April 17, 2021 Author Share Posted April 17, 2021 So then, to surmise, it appears the success of such configuration depends on the particular type of speakers used. It doesn't work equally well with all designs, but when it does it's a real treat for the listener. So far, I haven't felt the need yet to return to the 'traditional' placement of my speakers. Many thanks to all that contributed to this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muon* Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 I've reverted to a more traditional position for my ML-1's, while the extreme toe in helped in some ways there were trade offs where sound staging is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.K. Posted April 22, 2021 Author Share Posted April 22, 2021 48 minutes ago, muon* said: I've reverted to a more traditional position for my ML-1's, while the extreme toe in helped in some ways there were trade offs where sound staging is concerned. Just curious, what kind of "trade offs" / differences did you notice Ian? In my case, the 45 deg. toe in resulted in a very deep and accurate soundstage, with various instruments easily identified in their correct locations ( i.e. brass right at the back, mass violins on the right etc etc). With the speakers firing almost straight down the room ( and with a very slight toe in), the soundstage becomes almost 'flat' - like a wall of sound - much more forward than before. Depth is minimal. Interested to hear what the effect was with your ML - 1s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muon* Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Arthur K said: Just curious, what kind of "trade offs" / differences did you notice Ian? In my case, the 45 deg. toe in resulted in a very deep and accurate soundstage, with various instruments easily identified in their correct locations ( i.e. brass right at the back, mass violins on the right etc etc). With the speakers firing almost straight down the room ( and with a very slight toe in), the soundstage becomes almost 'flat' - like a wall of sound - much more forward than before. Depth is minimal. Interested to hear what the effect was with your ML - 1s. The stage with the extreme toe in was very narrow, but conventionally it is much wider with more space for things to have....well more space. Really does depend on speakers and room. In a conventional way as now I see the 1cm view of the inner side faces of the speakers instead of the extreme toe in where I see 1cm of the faces of the outside of the speakers, definitely don't like them firing straight forward. Depth is fine with the conventional toe in and better actually as with extreme toe in with the ML-1's it was more forward sounding but squashed the stage in so much it lost depth with space. Edited April 22, 2021 by muon* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.K. Posted April 22, 2021 Author Share Posted April 22, 2021 This then confirms what another member said previously. It really depends on the room and the radiation pattern of the speakers. Like so many other things in audio, nothing is absolute.. Experimenting is the name of the game Ian. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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