Advice for speaker upgrade for corners (pulled out a little) + Amplifier

[Zambon]

Before you yell at me, please hear me out! Its going to be extremely difficult for me to get out of the corner placement due to the lack of other available spots in the house and WAF. My house isn't exactly small but there is a hell of a lot of stuff in it. My living room that I've wanted to place the speakers in is 5.7 x 3.5 metres. Plan is to place the speakers on the short wall about 3.5 metres apart with listening position a bit more than 3.5 so nearly equilateral. They'll be pulled off the front and side walls by about 1-2 ft max. Living room opens into a dining room through a wide arch, so its not a small enclosed space really. 

Currently my setup is a pair of Dali Zensor 1's, Denon M39DAB, Cambridge DAC and and a KEF Q100B sub-woofer. I've been fairly pleased with the setup all these years but want to trade up to a system with a price range of 5-7K AUD. I like a somewhat warm sound, good detail and wide/deep soundstage. Not a bassoholic, but like tight bass that gives a visceral feeling and presence. I get this currently at times with my setup but as you can imagine its not spectacular. I'm always twiddling the sub-woofer volume to get the bass just right depending on the song.  I guess the small speakers mean that currently the corner placement isn't a big issue and maybe even a plus. 

I've been scouring all the corner speaker posts on youtube and forums. Advice seems to be to get a sealed design small or wide baffle bookshelf speakers. But some people are suggesting room correction and DSP. 

I'm itching to try the Buchardt S400 and L150 amplifier as maybe with room correction could work in my space. Might order a trial and see ....

But maybe it will be too much bass, so other things I'm thinking of small speakers known to play well in corners .... 

 

ProAc Tablette 10
P3ESR 

Vandersteen VLR CT (a bit over budget and not too many suppliers in Aus. though) 
Audio Note J or E - will need to hear as not sure what they sound like

Not sure what amplifier would work well with any of these. So some advice here will be appreciated.

I'm however wide open to considering any other speaker + amp options as I'm very new at this thing.

I'm mostly thinking bookshelves due to bass problem and imaging in this price range. Aesthetics also though. Compact floor standers could be acceptable if they sound good in this space
 

[Snoopy8]

2 hours ago, Zambon said:

I'm itching to try the Buchardt S400 and L150 amplifier as maybe with room correction could work in my space. Might order a trial and see ....

to the forum...  And we promise not to yell at you because of the corner placement.    And many of us have to consider WAF when our systems are in a shared space.

 

Why not the Buchardt A500 bundle and you do not have to worry about matching amplifier to speaker

https://www.buchardtaudio.com/products/a500-black-bundle

 

Please read on the section on boundary effect (i.e. corner)

https://www.buchardtaudio.com/a500-detailed-description

 

To cut a long story short, it is an excellent simple system which will compensate for corners, not overwhelm a room (good WAF) and should sound superb. And within budget...

[Jehuty]

For corner loading I would go for Audio Note, without a doubt. Listened to the J and E and they both sounded excellent, either at hi-fi shows (really tough room/environment) or home environment.

 

I would love to get AN-K someday but I am happy with my Snell K for now.

 

PS: I have the same issue where the currently available and best location for my speakers are corner only. No issue with a lot of stuff in the room as you can see from the picture below.

 

 

 

 

 

[Zambon]

@Snoopy8 Thanks! Re: A500 I thought that the active rear facing woofer might be an issue with the corner placement but maybe I'm wrong given that write-up. I'm a bit ambivalent about actives. I guess it means I won't get to have the fun of geeking out on different components in the future :)) But also worried about throwing all my eggs in that one basket with a warranty that is only 2y and all those parts jiggling together in a small box. Still there is some appeal in the one and done approach and the promise of crazy synergy, so I'll give it some thought

@Jehuty What a dope room!  I'm actually trying to see where I can audition some Audio Notes in Sydney. I've heard they are fairly neutral and I tend to prefer a warmer sound though. Any idea what amp I could pair it with that would warm it up and keep everything within budget?

Edited March 18, 2021 by Zambon

[Snoopy8]

@Zambon. I am known as someone who now advocates simpler setups. This was my previous setup and I have continued with Kii Threes.  

 

Yes, you will be putting all your eggs in one basket, and no longer able to tinker with various components. Are you someone who enjoys the chase for the next upgrade and see it as an integral part of this hobby (errr.. obsession  ) ?  Or do you want to sit back and enjoy good music?

 

The Buchardt A500s are an intriguing option, one fifth the price of the Kii but offering similar DSP options.  Have a look at this graph which shows the impact of changing the boundary settings. In your case, you will be using a setting for closer to the wall.  Corners especially, boost the bass, hence you can use DSP to reduce it.

 

Had I known about them and available when I changed, I would have seriously considered the A500 package. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Snoopy8
Corrected graph link

[Zambon]

Wow, that is one serious transformation of setup @Snoopy8  Speaking as someone who's had a micro hifi just sitting there for over a decade and only added a small DAC and sub to it, I'm definitely not a serious hobbyist in that sense. Usually I'm excited about the setup for a few weeks and then just forget about it and listen to music. So you could just be right. I'm giving this some serious thought. 

[Snoopy8]

7 hours ago, Zambon said:

But also worried about throwing all my eggs in that one basket with a warranty that is only 2y and all those parts jiggling together in a small box. Still there is some appeal in the one and done approach and the promise of crazy synergy, so I'll give it some thought

 

From their website on warranty, minimum 4 years on registration (soon available).

Quote

Buchardt Audio provides 10 years warranty on speakers, 2 years on electronics, 4 years with registration (soon available), this includes the active module of our active speakers. Warranty starts from the date the products are received by the customer

 

 

22 minutes ago, Zambon said:

Speaking as someone who's had a micro hifi just sitting there for over a decade and only added a small DAC and sub to it, I'm definitely not a serious hobbyist in that sense. Usually I'm excited about the setup for a few weeks and then just forget about it and listen to music. So you could just be right. I'm giving this some serious thought. 

Sounds like the A500 will be a good fit for you...

 

By the way, I made a mistake with my graph link in my earlier post (and have corrected).  It shows a measurable impact of the DSP boundary setting on my Kii but should have a similar impact on the Buchardt A500.

[anandpkumar]

Like Snoopy, I too am an advocate of active speakers with DSP. I currently run Meridian DSP speakers and am very happy with mine. Some Meridian models (DSP5000, 5200 or 5500) can be got in the used market within your budget of 5-7K

 

If you're keen on going down the active path, along with the Buchardt A500 which sounds like a great option, do check out offerings from Dynaudio. There are some models available in your budget (after discounts). Since you're in Sydney, check this option out

https://lifestylestore.com.au/product/dynaudio-focus-30xd-active-bookshelf-speakers-ex-demo/

Edited March 19, 2021 by anandpkumar

[Zambon]

@anandpkumar  thanks those Dynaudio's look great. Those options remind that there is more out there. As tempted as I am to spring for the A500 or A400's  I might sit on it for a little while and do a bit more listening and research

 

[Zambon]

The other variable I'm starting to think of now is my 9 month old daughter. She's already started tugging on my speaker stands. They are pretty wobbly crap ones, even so maybe something she can't easily pull onto herself like a sturdy floorstander might be the way to go

[Snoopy8]

2 hours ago, Zambon said:

The other variable I'm starting to think of now is my 9 month old daughter. She's already started tugging on my speaker stands. They are pretty wobbly crap ones, even so maybe something she can't easily pull onto herself like a sturdy floorstander might be the way to go

Floorstanders are just as vulnerable, unless you get really heavy, sturdy ones. You have a choice of mounting them high or putting a fence until they learn not to go near dad's toys!

[anandpkumar]

On 20/03/2021 at 11:24 AM, Zambon said:

The other variable I'm starting to think of now is my 9 month old daughter. She's already started tugging on my speaker stands. They are pretty wobbly crap ones, even so maybe something she can't easily pull onto herself like a sturdy floorstander might be the way to go

A fence might be the way to go. Even floor standers can topple over. Just the other day, I was moving some stuff around the house and accidently bumped into one of my floor standers which weigh around 32kg. Though it didn't topple over, it did tilt around a bit too much for my comfort.  

 

 

[Guest DrSK]

 

I have some of Mike's smaller ML1s with the right speaker shoved in a corner and the left next to an open door which stops against the stand. Imaging is still surprisingly good. 

 

Given you are considering DSP, I wouldn't be worried about issues from floor standers outputting too much base. 

 

These are in need of being sold, I'd assume like most of Mike's stuff they will sound great. I think they are sitting a bit as I don't think these can be easily upgraded to ML5s which is where a lot of people would want to head with his floor standers.

 

I seriously doubt your 9mo could damage them or pull themselves up on these. Slippery smooth surface and 30kgs+ each. Worst my kids did was pull the Lenehan logo of the covers. Mike can fix anything any way up in Gold Coast. 

 

And your room isn't that small. Without DSP these would be for about a 70m3 room. 

 

I've been happy with my ML2+Rs now in my main system for 5 years or more. Started with an AVR and as budget allowed now have moved all the other components well up the food chain. His speakers are known for transparency, strong imaging and tight base rather than boom. 

 

 

Even my ML1 Reference in the WAF limited lounge can go surprisingly hard with some low end EQ.  Rated for 300W they fill our 4.5m by 10m living area with a 3. 5m by 5m kitchen off one side to levels my wife won't accept without any distortion or loss in clarity. 

Edited March 24, 2021 by DrSK

[Zambon]

@DrSK thanks, ML1's look beautiful. MLT3 - a bit too chunky for me though and I realise that apart from room bass issues, I'm favouring bookshelves as I like the look of them better. 

Well I finally pulled the plug and ordered the Buchardt S400's with L150 amplifier which comes with DSP and is calibrated to the S400's. Maybe I can get some of the advantages of the active a500's without the drawbacks. I can see from the Buchardt facebook group that people seem pretty happy with them. Besides a500 not available until August

[blakey72]

My vote goes to a setup like one of these:

 

https://klappav.com.au/collections/amplifiers/products/m2si-stereo-integrated-amplifier-black

 

https://www.audiomagic.com.au/product/detail/27/pair-of-speakers-harbeth-hl-compact-7es-3-cherry

 

Or this

 

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/paradise-point/radios-receivers/plinius-8150-integrated-amplifier/1270844890

OR

https://audiofix.com.au/store/electronics/251-exposure-2510.html

 

https://www.classaaudio.com.au/bookshelf-speakers/2396-pmc-twenty522-compact-bookshelf-speakers-ex-demo.html

[blakey72]

You ordered without auditioning?

[wen]

@blakey72, lots of people buy without auditioning, its not a given

[Jehuty]

Maybe because OP had already had his mind set on getting the speakers but looking for more online "support"(?). Nothing wrong with that and it's his money to spend on whatever he wants. Hope OP enjoys his new speakers. I, for one though, feel like the Audio Note would kill any other speakers when set up at corners. My preference, my music. Cheers

 

 

[blakey72]

12 hours ago, wen said:

@blakey72, lots of people buy without auditioning, its not a given

I just think it's a lot to spend without knowing for sure. Everyone's ears are so different. Congrats anyway op, the reviews seem to be very positive  

[anandpkumar]

3 hours ago, blakey72 said:

I just think it's a lot to spend without knowing for sure. Everyone's ears are so different. Congrats anyway op, the reviews seem to be very positive  

 I think Buchardt has a 30 day return policy since they sell direct, though shipping them back to Denmark for a return would be an expensive proposition!

[Jim Johnston]

Plus one for the Audio Notes, had them 3 weeks , had the Trenner & Friedl pharaohs, they were good, but not in the same league, stick them in the corners, amazing.

[Zambon]

@blakey72 Yes, only reason I ordered was because of the 45 day return policy, which I thought would be sufficient time to audition in my own living room. @anandpkumar there is a standard 50 euro flat-rate worldwide to return the A400's (150 euros for the A700 floor standers). Not 100% sure whether amplifier is included in this or whether it is 50 euros extra to return. Either way if I hate it or think the cost is not justified I'm okay with swallowing that for a demo like this 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Zambon

[anandpkumar]

17 hours ago, Zambon said:

there is a standard 50 euro flat-rate worldwide to return the A400's (150 euros for the A700 floor standers). Not 100% sure whether amplifier is included in this or whether it is 50 euros extra to return. Either way if I hate it or think the cost is not justified I'm okay with swallowing that for a demo like this 

 

50 euro for a return shipping to Denmark is quite reasonable, and well worth the risk, I would say. Hope it works out for you that you don't have to ship back.

[Zambon]

Yeah, haha same here!