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Tapping ‘noise’ on turntable...


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Hi vinyl lovers, I’ve just finished making a new plinth for my refurbished Sonab turntable. Replacement tonearm fitted, new belt and lube in the platter bearing. I’m currently running an Ortofon 2M Silver cart and headshell.
The plinth is made from 90x45 Australian hardwood for its mass and weighs a healthy 5kg. The object was to minimise resonances. Think I’ve succeeded as it sounds great.

One problem that existed on the original deck/plinth was a hollow noise through the loudspeakers when touching or tapping the suspended metal deck only when the stylus is in contact with a record but not at any other time. This noise increases with the volume setting. Once playing there is no discernible noise. Also there are no electrical noises whatsoever - no hums, no buzzes at all.

Problem is, disappointingly, this phenomenon has not gone away on the new set up. Any thoughts welcome.

ps One thing I didn’t change was the DIN to RCA input cable to the preamp...

6E0C010B-5803-40AD-BA67-B8C19193488A.jpeg

Edited by markielinhart
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I have experienced this on sprung turntables.  It's a metal platform that isolated by the springs.    

 

My cure is usually to remove the springs and couple the turntable tightly to the heavy plinth.  Then provide isolation under the plinth (usually rubber feet of some kind).

 

You might improve it a bit, and retain the spring suspension, by adding damping material to all the places the turntable can resonate - under the platter, under the main metal chassis etc.  

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41 minutes ago, markielinhart said:

Hi vinyl lovers, I’ve just finished making a new plinth for my refurbished Sonab turntable. Replacement tonearm fitted, new belt and lube in the platter bearing. I’m currently running an Ortofon 2M Silver cart and headshell.


The plinth is made from 90x45 Australian hardwood for its mass and weighs a healthy 5kg. The object was to minimise resonances. Think I’ve succeeded as it sounds great.

One problem that existed on the original deck/plinth was a hollow noise through the loudspeakers when touching or tapping the suspended metal deck only when the stylus is in contact with a record but not at any other time. This noise increases with the volume setting. Once playing there is no discernible noise. Also there are no electrical noises whatsoever - no hums, no buzzes at all.

 

Problem is, disappointingly, this phenomenon has not gone away on the new set up. Any thoughts welcome.

 

Great plinth but, sorry, I can't see where your "suspended metal deck" is - as the arm appears to be fixed solidly to the chassis (which, surely is fixed to the plinth)?

 

So of course if you tap the plinth ... you hear this impulse through the spkrs if the stylus is resting on an LP.

 

Andy

 

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18 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

Great plinth but, sorry, I can't see where your "suspended metal deck" is - as the arm appears to be fixed solidly to the chassis (which, surely is fixed to the plinth)?

 

So of course if you tap the plinth ... you hear this impulse through the spkrs if the stylus is resting on an LP.

 

Andy

 

 

Old style I thought, the whole thing is suspended - the whole big rectangle of metal.

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59 minutes ago, markielinhart said:

Hi vinyl lovers, I’ve just finished making a new plinth for my refurbished Sonab turntable. Replacement tonearm fitted, new belt and lube in the platter bearing. I’m currently running an Ortofon 2M Silver cart and headshell.
The plinth is made from 90x45 Australian hardwood for its mass and weighs a healthy 5kg. The object was to minimise resonances. Think I’ve succeeded as it sounds great.

One problem that existed on the original deck/plinth was a hollow noise through the loudspeakers when touching or tapping the suspended metal deck only when the stylus is in contact with a record but not at any other time. This noise increases with the volume setting. Once playing there is no discernible noise. Also there are no electrical noises whatsoever - no hums, no buzzes at all.

Problem is, disappointingly, this phenomenon has not gone away on the new set up. Any thoughts welcome.

ps One thing I didn’t change was the DIN to RCA input cable to the preamp...

6E0C010B-5803-40AD-BA67-B8C19193488A.jpeg

 

Hello Markie,

 

I agree with Andy in that your tonearm looks to be securely fixed to the metal plinth, so tapping that plinth would have to resonate through your loudspeakers with the stylus in contact with a record.......................this of course would be amplified with more volume applied, as you say. If you want to stop that tapping noise, I would suggest not tapping the metal plinth while your records are playing, or alternatively, you'll need to isolate the tonearm on a separate arm-board with appropriate damping, depending on the construction of this arm-board.

 

I note you say the deck sounds great and it is not really a phenomenon that you can hear yourself tapping on the plinth. Looking at the pic above, are you sure you're not experiencing any feedback issue with the close proximity of that loudspeaker to your turntable?

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

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3 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

 

Old style I thought, the whole thing is suspended - the whole big rectangle of metal.

 

That's true and that is how I read the description too, but the tonearm is connected to that metal plinth, so I figure it wouldn't matter if the metal plinth was suspended, if you're going to go tapping the metal plinth, I wouldn't be surprised you're going to hear that.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

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27 minutes ago, andyr said:

which, surely is fixed to the plinth

 

5 minutes ago, cheekyboy said:

I agree with Andy in that your tonearm looks to be securely fixed to the metal plinth,

 

1 minute ago, cheekyboy said:

so I figure it wouldn't matter if the metal plinth was suspended,

 

Is that not a spring I see peeking out from under the right hand side?    A totally suspended chassis, with tonearm fixed to that same chassis.  There's nowhere for the vibration to go.  That's why screwing it down the plinth is the way I usually go.  Even on old Garrard record changers - which are sprung in this same way.

Edited by aussievintage
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3 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

 

 

Is that not a spring I see peeking out from under the right hand side?    A totally suspended chassis, with tonearm fixed to that same chassis.  There's nowhere for the vibration to go.  That's why screwing it down the plinth is the way I usually go.  Even on old Garrard record changers - which are sprung in this same way.

 

You could well be right, I can't see a spring there, but the resolution on my screen is not that great. I know tapping any surface that a tonearm is connected to will feedback through the pick up and arm to the loudspeakers if it's playing a record at the time. Maybe the sign behind the turntable is a bit of a clue!xD

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

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10 minutes ago, cheekyboy said:

 

Hello Markie,

 

I agree with Andy in that your tonearm looks to be securely fixed to the metal plinth, so tapping that plinth would have to resonate through your loudspeakers with the stylus in contact with a record.......................this of course would be amplified with more volume applied, as you say. If you want to stop that tapping noise, I would suggest not tapping the metal plinth while your records are playing, or alternatively, you'll need to isolate the tonearm on a separate arm-board with appropriate damping, depending on the construction of this arm-board.

 

I note you say the deck sounds great and it is not really a phenomenon that you can hear yourself tapping on the plinth. Looking at the pic above, are you sure you're not experiencing any feedback issue with the close proximity of that loudspeaker to your turntable?

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

 

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24 minutes ago, cheekyboy said:

if you're going to go tapping the metal plinth, I wouldn't be surprised you're going to hear that.

 

 

Yes, and you can't completely eliminate it, but by providing a sink for the vibrations, you can reduce the noise.

Edited by aussievintage
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19 minutes ago, cheekyboy said:

 

Hello Markie,

 

I agree with Andy in that your tonearm looks to be securely fixed to the metal plinth, so tapping that plinth would have to resonate through your loudspeakers with the stylus in contact with a record.......................this of course would be amplified with more volume applied, as you say. If you want to stop that tapping noise, I would suggest not tapping the metal plinth while your records are playing, or alternatively, you'll need to isolate the tonearm on a separate arm-board with appropriate damping, depending on the construction of this arm-board.

 

I note you say the deck sounds great and it is not really a phenomenon that you can hear yourself tapping on the plinth. Looking at the pic above, are you sure you're not experiencing any feedback issue with the close proximity of that loudspeaker to your turntable?

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

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10 minutes ago, cheekyboy said:

 

You could well be right, I can't see a spring there, but the resolution on my screen is not that great. I know tapping any surface that a tonearm is connected to will feedback through the pick up and arm to the loudspeakers if it's playing a record at the time. Maybe the sign behind the turntable is a bit of a clue!xD

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

Hi Keith, maybe you’re right about that sign lol. The speaker in the pic is part of my 2.1 AV setup and is not connected to the two channel hifi at all. I have a pair of floorstanders for that...

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7 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

 

 

Yes, and you can't completely eliminate it, but by proving a sink for the vibrations, you can reduce the noise.

 

Agree totally, aussievintage, and I think the best way to eliminate this problem is to simply stop tapping the plinth while a record is being played.:winky:

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

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Righto, I just removed the four springs and sat the deck directly on the plinth. The plinth is isolated btw - it has rubber subwoofer feet and it sits on a heavy floor tile then on the rack shelf. So, all that did was transfer the sound to the rack and the shelf below... 🤔

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Just now, markielinhart said:

Righto, I just removed the four springs and sat the deck directly on the plinth. The plinth is isolated btw - it has rubber subwoofer feet and it sits on a heavy floor tile then on the rack shelf. So, all that did was transfer the sound to the rack and the shelf below... 🤔

 

Since the plinth is isolated, the sound/vibrations should be trapped in the heavy plinth.  However, that should mean less are reaching the tonearm/cartridge..

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1 hour ago, cheekyboy said:

 

Agree totally, aussievintage, and I think the best way to eliminate this problem is to simply stop tapping the plinth while a record is being played.:winky:

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

You hit the nail on the head Keith!

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43 minutes ago, Gryffles said:

You hit the nail on the head Keith!

No one is tapping anything while a record is playing except perhaps my feet...

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3 hours ago, aussievintage said:

You might improve it a bit, and retain the spring suspension, by adding damping material to all the places the turntable can resonate - under the platter, under the main metal chassis etc.  

Thanks for all the constructive input.

I’ll be trying this with some acoustic material I have.

Annoying issues are exactly that - annoying, all I want is to listen to the music the best way I can...

Sonab 67s specs FYI...

C2EDAA80-BCF6-4A2F-B531-8C8D3CF23639.jpeg

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2 hours ago, markielinhart said:

No one is tapping anything while a record is playing except perhaps my feet...

 

Hello Markie, I must have misunderstood your original comment.....................see quote from your original post below.

 

Quote

One problem that existed on the original deck/plinth was a hollow noise through the loudspeakers when touching or tapping the suspended metal deck only when the stylus is in contact with a record but not at any other time. This noise increases with the volume setting. 

 

Should I not interpret "only when the stylus is in contact with a record" as meaning while playing a record?

 

And then there is this....................

 

Quote

Problem is, disappointingly, this phenomenon has not gone away on the new set up

 

If the noise from tapping the suspended metal deck is not the problem/ phenomenon/ annoying issue, what is it that is concerning you?

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

Edited by cheekyboy
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3 hours ago, markielinhart said:

No one is tapping anything while a record is playing except perhaps my feet...

In that case I don't understand your issue. Is it that you get feedback when you tap the metal so you assume it is degrading the sound quality? Or there is feedback when you are not tapping the metal and the TT is operating normally?

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A postscript of sorts...

Since this morning, I’ve added these Seiki Microsorbers instead of the sub feet and while the annoying/disappointing noise hasn’t gone away it’s reduced somewhat and is totally confined to the turntable and to a lesser extent the plinth.

When i affix the ordered lid I’ll add some acoustic material to under the metal deck.

Thanks agin for the conversation gentlemen... 

F21C4039-226E-4552-A4B8-8BE2830649B8.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Gryffles said:

Thank goodness that's the end of that lol


Yep, me too I guess.😳................but I still have absolutely no idea what the issue was here.🤪

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

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 @markielinhart on my Rega Planar 2 i put a slate tile with a layer of silicone under the plinth, this cured the issue you are talking about,before when i tapped my plinth while the record is playing it sounded microphonic, this is now resolved, pictures in this forum topic Feb 2019

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1 hour ago, cheekyboy said:


Yep, me too I guess.😳................but I still have absolutely no idea what the issue was here.🤪

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

 

I think the pic that the OP posted earlier says it all, Keith.  :)

 

Andy

 

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19 hours ago, andyr said:

 

I think the pic that the OP posted earlier says it all, Keith.  :)

 

Andy

 

Actually, it’s ironic. Are you American?

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45 minutes ago, markielinhart said:

Actually, it’s ironic. Are you American?

:popcorn:

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On 08/03/2021 at 9:18 PM, andyr said:

I think the pic that the OP posted earlier says it all, Keith.  :)

 

Andy

 

18 hours ago, markielinhart said:

Actually, it’s ironic. Are you American?

 

No ... but I am "on the spectrum "!  :lol:

 

Andy

 

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