Pigpen 78 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) Just hooked up a NAD C298 to VAF I93 - so far so good - the attack associated with the opening bars of Living Colour's ‘Flying’ let the neighbours know I was home and only me and my dry cleaner will know just what a fright I got...... This could be a good amp, especially considering the price. Edited March 6 by Pigpen Grammar 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Hi-Fi Whipped 1,192 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 On 04/03/2021 at 6:39 PM, Pigpen said: Just hooked up a NAD C298 to VAF I93 - so far so good - the attack associated with the opening bars of Living Colours ‘Flying’ let the neighbours know I was home and only me and my dry cleaner will know just what a fright I got...... This could be a good amp, especially considering the price. Curious about this amp given the hype around purifi, what were you using before it? Link to post Share on other sites
Pigpen 78 Posted March 6 Author Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said: Curious about this amp given the hype around purifi, what were you using before it? Hi Whipped, was using SGR CX3B which are active - before that, an ME1500 (still have seller’s remorse - it served me well....). Early days yet on the 298 - I was going to get 2 and run them in bridged mode for stupid amounts of power, however, the i93 are 4 Ohms and NAD do not recommend bridging the 298 into 4 Ohms as it ‘may’ trigger the thermal (I think) protection circuit. So far, so good - around 340 Watts into 4 Ohms, so the neighbours may become aware of my existence..... Pigpen. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Pigpen 78 Posted March 6 Author Share Posted March 6 Well, this did not go well - the NAD C298 has developed a mind of its own and switches off when it feels like it....... Lets see what NAD say this week. Poop......... Link to post Share on other sites
kukynas 934 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 18 hours ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said: Curious about this amp given the hype around purifi, what were you using before it? first thing... excellent dynamics, clean and clear sound, I would say not as neutral (analytical) as bare bone Purifi amp (kit version) would be or i.e. Boxem whose using very similar buffer stage to Purifi kit so I would say NAD is on warmer side of spectrum but just slightly, haven't seen measurements yet but I would guess it measures similar to M33 or any other NAD gear with slightly higher H2/H3 very high SNR/DNR and crosstalk translated into excellent instrument separation with no audible noise or distortion, this is the cleanest sounding amp I ever had (Marantz PM10 reference, Hypex NC500, Lyngdorf) coupled with high power and dynamic capabilities even for high demanding speakers (mine are down to 3ohm) , so far thumbs up 👍 10 hours ago, Pigpen said: Well, this did not go well - the NAD C298 has developed a mind of its own and switches off when it feels like it....... Lets see what NAD say this week. Poop......... known issue for early units in da channel, your distributor should sort it out but it requires re-flash of the unit so back to box and off to distributor btw, did you enabled auto sense and auto standby? I did that as first thing after powering it up and so far so good but I also pre-warned friend of mine (distributor) about the known issue and if it does it goes back Dan 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Pigpen 78 Posted March 6 Author Share Posted March 6 2 hours ago, kukynas said: first thing... excellent dynamics, clean and clear sound, I would say not as neutral (analytical) as bare bone Purifi amp (kit version) would be or i.e. Boxem whose using very similar buffer stage to Purifi kit so I would say NAD is on warmer side of spectrum but just slightly, haven't seen measurements yet but I would guess it measures similar to M33 or any other NAD gear with slightly higher H2/H3 very high SNR/DNR and crosstalk translated into excellent instrument separation with no audible noise or distortion, this is the cleanest sounding amp I ever had (Marantz PM10 reference, Hypex NC500, Lyngdorf) coupled with high power and dynamic capabilities even for high demanding speakers (mine are down to 3ohm) , so far thumbs up 👍 known issue for early units in da channel, your distributor should sort it out but it requires re-flash of the unit so back to box and off to distributor btw, did you enabled auto sense and auto standby? I did that as first thing after powering it up and so far so good but I also pre-warned friend of mine (distributor) about the known issue and if it does it goes back Dan Link to post Share on other sites
Pigpen 78 Posted March 6 Author Share Posted March 6 Hi Dan, thanks for the info - much appreciated. Had quite an experience trying to enable the Auto-Sense / Auto-Standby functions - despite following the manual instructions to the letter. I have firmware version 1.07 - one of the things I inadvertently stumbled across was getting the bridge light to flash 7 times (can’t remember how I did it) and found out this number of flashes is tied to firmware version. Awaiting advice from NAD Australia. Link to post Share on other sites
kukynas 934 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 V1.08 sorting out this problem yeah, I tried it like 3 times to finally get it to work 😀 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Lil Caesar 412 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 2 x 298 into Kef R11’s. First tried one amp, then two in bridge mode and now bi-amping via my minidsp shd with Dirac. Will not find a better amplifier for the money. My last stop lest I win the lottery. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Pigpen 78 Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 6 minutes ago, Lil Caesar said: 2 x 298 into Kef R11’s. First tried one amp, then two in bridge mode and now bi-amping via my minidsp shd with Dirac. Will not find a better amplifier for the money. My last stop lest I win the lottery. There is a comment on the NAD page somewhere re bridging and 4 Ohms - I will see if I can find it and maybe do some more investigation - I am a big believer of ‘if one is good, 2 MUST be better’. Link to post Share on other sites
andyr 6,072 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 2 minutes ago, Pigpen said: There is a comment on the NAD page somewhere re bridging and 4 Ohms - I will see if I can find it and maybe do some more investigation - I am a big believer of ‘if one is good, 2 MUST be better’. AIUI, the view is that when a stereo amp is bridged into mono ... it does not cope well with a 4 ohm load. Andy 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Lil Caesar 412 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 15 minutes ago, Pigpen said: There is a comment on the NAD page somewhere re bridging and 4 Ohms - I will see if I can find it and maybe do some more investigation - I am a big believer of ‘if one is good, 2 MUST be better’. For what it’s worth, the Kef R11’s do dip to 4 Ohms. I had no issues with the amps running in bridge mode regardless of the energy level featured in my playback material. I was more concerned blowing the woofers. I also did not have / do not have any of the reported problems with autosense and shutdowns some users have suffered. and yes, running two is a massive step up from running one amp. I found it was only slightly better when moving to bi-amping from the two in bridge mode. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Pigpen 78 Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 Well the NAD C298 may well be suffering from suspected death - “have you ever known a good red light Mr Simpson” sort of thing........ Definitely not how I envisaged the weekends activities........ Link to post Share on other sites
kukynas 934 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 15 minutes ago, Pigpen said: Well the NAD C298 may well be suffering from suspected death - “have you ever known a good red light Mr Simpson” sort of thing........ Definitely not how I envisaged the weekends activities........ what does it do or doesn’t? can’t switch it on or no response at all or? Have you tried pull it out of the mains? I think the arm processor messing up with protection circuit or something due to bad firmware Link to post Share on other sites
Pigpen 78 Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 Hi Dan, The unit now just stays in standby mode even after removing all power (and reconnecting), trigger input etc. Not too concerned as it is only a few days old and under warranty - more an inconvenience than anything else. Using the 298 as a test bed to see if this type of amplification is suitable for my speakers and worth pursuing either by adding another 298 or upgrading to M33 - time will tell. When it is / was working, I found it to be a pretty competent piece of kit. Pigpen Link to post Share on other sites
kukynas 934 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Hopefully just the reflash of the unit Link to post Share on other sites
Pigpen 78 Posted March 9 Author Share Posted March 9 Next step - Klapp AV (who I purchased the unit from) have organised for NAD to pick the unit up, update it and return it to me - very efficient service on behalf of the Klapp AV guys noting I only emailed them yesterday and it was a public holiday in Victoria. Link to post Share on other sites
kukynas 934 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 At least something possitive 👍 Link to post Share on other sites
Pigpen 78 Posted March 9 Author Share Posted March 9 (edited) 12 minutes ago, kukynas said: At least something possitive 👍 It surprisingly flashed up again this afternoon for about an hour before shutting down again - time to box it up anyway. Edited March 9 by Pigpen Link to post Share on other sites
kukynas 934 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 do we like it? yes we do 😀 SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - NAD C 298 Stereo Amplifier Measurements as said earlier I was expecting similar figures, shame we can't compare it directly with M28 or M33 figures as SS measures it with 90khz bandwidth so it looks worse than it is in reality Link to post Share on other sites
Pigpen 78 Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 2 minutes ago, kukynas said: do we like it? yes we do 😀 SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - NAD C 298 Stereo Amplifier Measurements as said earlier I was expecting similar figures, shame we can't compare it directly with M28 or M33 figures as SS measures it with 90khz bandwidth so it looks worse than it is in reality A “forward looking” review no doubt: Reviewed on 15 March 21!! Link to post Share on other sites
kukynas 934 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, Pigpen said: Reviewed on 15 March 21!! yeah, many spotted that, maybe someone've watched Tenet lately so got inspired 😂 SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com - NAD C 298 Stereo Amplifier 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Pigpen 78 Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 NAD C298 now at the repair shop for an update of 1s and 0s to rectify the problem. Been some excellent service from: (1) Klapp AV who did not mess around getting the repair folks into gear. (2) Border Express who failed to pick up the unit on the designated day yet called to apologise profusely for the stuff up. (3) Paul at Convoy International for keeping me in the loop - unit due back next week. Lets see how it goes. Link to post Share on other sites
kukynas 934 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 good to see things are getting sorted, fingers x you'll get it back soon 😉 Link to post Share on other sites
Pigpen 78 Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 Latest update from Convoy - the NAD C298 is indeed suffering from suspected death, with a new unit ordered, however, nil stock at the moment, due in April apparently. Even though it is a pain not having the amplifier, I will give credit where it is due - Klapp and Convoy have handled the whole thing very well - it is what it is. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
kukynas 934 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 That sucks, hopefully your new unit will be fully updated with no issues 🤞 Link to post Share on other sites
Pigpen 78 Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 The serial numbers up to H20YC29801630 were impacted - outside of that, all came with REV 1.08 software. Mine was 1445 therefore in the 1.07 software range. Link to post Share on other sites
kukynas 934 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Good to know also for others 👍 Link to post Share on other sites
kukynas 934 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 so after having this amp for about a month finally I had enough time to test it properly with nobody in da house so could crank it up and check if it runs as expected and yeeeees it does not 😪..... I've experience the same phenomenon with Nord's NC500 amp previously (except for slightly different reasons) and that's fatigue sound after certain period, it's not audible distortion or noise but inaudible ultrasonic's or something, I have no idea why and how but this is the only logical explanation, this could be the only culprit I can think of causing painful listening and I didn't even listened to crazy levels (82db at my listening position ~3.5m from speakers) when my ears started to whistle Don't know what I'm gonna do yet but can't listening to it at the mo 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Pigpen 78 Posted April 4 Author Share Posted April 4 I am awaiting the delivery of 2 March Audio Purifi based mono blocks - hopefully arrive this coming week. When looking at the specs for the amps, I noted that the March Audio units while based on the Purifi module that NAD use, have a higher output into both 4 and 8 ohms than the NAD C298. Eagerly awaiting the March Audio units from Albany Western Australia, will provide feedback once I have listened to them at length. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
kukynas 934 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 (edited) 🤦♂️ if I remember well I didn't pay for Morse code transmitter, did I ? ~300mV with nothing connected to it !!!, yes at 515khz which is its switching freq but c-mon 300mV idle??? below comparison from ASR site between Purifi module and old hypex NC400 when AES-17 40khz cut off filter is applied (second graph), that's huge amount of energy no matter in which frequency... most of the speakers won't care apparently but for some reason mine don't like it, again I can't think of anything else what could cause the fatigue sound just in case I also checked my preamp/dac if there's anything potentially broken and other than some harmonics at 45khz down at -105db there's nothing obvious, can't measure beyond ~100khz so of course I can't guarantee for 100% Edited April 5 by kukynas added info 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Hi-Fi Whipped 1,192 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 On 03/04/2021 at 10:35 PM, kukynas said: so after having this amp for about a month finally I had enough time to test it properly with nobody in da house so could crank it up and check if it runs as expected and yeeeees it does not 😪..... I've experience the same phenomenon with Nord's NC500 amp previously (except for slightly different reasons) and that's fatigue sound after certain period, it's not audible distortion or noise but inaudible ultrasonic's or something, I have no idea why and how but this is the only logical explanation, this could be the only culprit I can think of causing painful listening and I didn't even listened to crazy levels (82db at my listening position ~3.5m from speakers) when my ears started to whistle Don't know what I'm gonna do yet but can't listening to it at the mo That’s a bummer mate, having experienced that fatiguing sound on other gear it really is a killer and proves that component compatibility and synergy is critical. Do you think it’s a fault or it just doesn’t play well with your speakers? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Pigpen 78 Posted April 5 Author Share Posted April 5 On 03/04/2021 at 11:35 PM, kukynas said: so after having this amp for about a month finally I had enough time to test it properly with nobody in da house so could crank it up and check if it runs as expected and yeeeees it does not 😪..... I've experience the same phenomenon with Nord's NC500 amp previously (except for slightly different reasons) and that's fatigue sound after certain period, it's not audible distortion or noise but inaudible ultrasonic's or something, I have no idea why and how but this is the only logical explanation, this could be the only culprit I can think of causing painful listening and I didn't even listened to crazy levels (82db at my listening position ~3.5m from speakers) when my ears started to whistle Don't know what I'm gonna do yet but can't listening to it at the mo I found the C298 a comfortable match with my i93s (when it was working), however, am aware that some amp/speaker pairings can be a little like oil and water. I ran Sonique 4.5SE speakers with an ME1500 and they sang, when I tried them with valves, it was not a good pairing.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
kukynas 934 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 7 hours ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said: That’s a bummer mate, having experienced that fatiguing sound on other gear it really is a killer and proves that component compatibility and synergy is critical. Do you think it’s a fault or it just doesn’t play well with your speakers? I wouldn't say fault per se more like design compromise like with other things but apparently problem with my speakers, I think if Hypex/Purifi used different LC filter (with higher attenuation) to tame down high frequencies content it might have been ok, on the other hand hard to say what it would do with other aspects of the amplifier I've been in touch with Troels if I could do something to my xover but coz it's series-xover there is no room for low pass filter so another amp or speakers 😒 2 Link to post Share on other sites
rhcp_steve 2 Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 I have a NAD T758 v3 and thinking of getting a dedicated power amp for the fronts. Would the C298 be a good match or far overkill given the front end being this AVR? They will be powering Monitor Audio RX6 Link to post Share on other sites
Pigpen 78 Posted April 6 Author Share Posted April 6 The C298 is a very good piece of kit and very good value considering what is does - if you listen to one and decide it is for you, just ensure that the software version is 1.08, not 1.07. An alternative if you like the Eigentakt amp sound is March Audio - I will write a quick review once my amps arrive from them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Hi-Fi Whipped 1,192 Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 2 hours ago, rhcp_steve said: I have a NAD T758 v3 and thinking of getting a dedicated power amp for the fronts. Would the C298 be a good match or far overkill given the front end being this AVR? They will be powering Monitor Audio RX6 Possibly yes, what's your usual setup for watching movies, 5.1? Link to post Share on other sites
rhcp_steve 2 Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 9 hours ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said: Possibly yes, what's your usual setup for watching movies, 5.1? Currently 5.1, though I’m intending to add 4x overheads for Atmos as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Hi-Fi Whipped 1,192 Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 12 hours ago, rhcp_steve said: Currently 5.1, though I’m intending to add 4x overheads for Atmos as well. If movie watching is your thing I’d probably suggest atleast a three channel amp for the front stage would be the go given you are using a avr as source. 2ch is a different game and a $2500 spend on power would only get you half the way there, improving the rest of the music source would also be recommended. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
lemarquis 620 Posted Saturday at 05:42 AM Share Posted Saturday at 05:42 AM On 04/04/2021 at 12:31 PM, Pigpen said: I am awaiting the delivery of 2 March Audio Purifi based mono blocks - hopefully arrive this coming wee Eagerly awaiting the March Audio units from Albany Western Australia, will provide feedback once I have listened to them at length. I'm waiting for my Purifi as well. Have you received yours yet? Alan hasn't replied to my emails. Link to post Share on other sites
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