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Amplifiers for large speakers - Paradigm Tribute (Signature) Speakers


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Hi Brains trust

I have a set of Paradigm Tributes that I have been using for several years for both Hi Fi, and HT.  I use a Cambridge Audio 851A as the amp for Hi Fi and as a power amp for HT.  I am considering separating the two systems.  I think the speakers sound great for both, but also know that when I trialed a Parasound 200w power amp when I bout these speakers, and they sounded so much better.

So my first question is  -  what type and size of power amp should I be looking at to power these speakers, for Hi Fi only, happy to take recomendations

Question 2 - If I were to keep the two systems together, what type of 3 or 5 channel amp should I be looking at.  I believe the 120w CA 851a powers them sufficiently for HT but lacks power for 2 channel

Not sure if it makes a lot of difference, my current room is about 7.5mlong x 4m wide (lounge dinning that is now lounge / empty.  If I were to separate, the hi fi would go into the old dinning 4.2long x 3m wide but open on two sides.   I have listed the specs of my speakers below, link anyway as I could not copy and paste

https://www.paradigm.com/en/floorstanding/tribute

 

   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
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5 minutes ago, JkSpinner said:

So my first question is  -  what type and size of power amp should I be looking at to power these speakers, for Hi Fi only, happy to take recomendations

 

First off I was puzzled about the title.  I don't see any correlation between amplifier and speaker size.

 

The specs you linked show 93db.  Quite efficient.  The same specs say 15 to 350 watts.  Isn't that your answer?   I would say you could go even lower depending on your listening room and equipment positioning etc.

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5 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

 

 

First off I was puzzled about the title.  I don't see any correlation between amplifier and speaker size.

 

The specs you linked show 93db.  Quite efficient.  The same specs say 15 to 350 watts.  Isn't that your answer?   I would say you could go even lower depending on your listening room and equipment positioning etc.

Maybe a novice question.  I get that watts are not watts.  I would assume larger speakers require larger amplifiers to drive them.  I have also tested these speakers with my amp and a Parasound (M21 I think)

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26 minutes ago, JkSpinner said:

Hi Brains trust

I have a set of Paradigm Tributes that I have been using for several years for both Hi Fi, and HT.  I use a Cambridge Audio 851A as the amp for Hi Fi and as a power amp for HT.  I am considering separating the two systems.  I think the speakers sound great for both, but also know that when I trialed a Parasound 200w power amp when I bout these speakers, and they sounded so much better.

So my first question is  -  what type and size of power amp should I be looking at to power these speakers, for Hi Fi only, happy to take recomendations

Question 2 - If I were to keep the two systems together, what type of 3 or 5 channel amp should I be looking at.  I believe the 120w CA 851a powers them sufficiently for HT but lacks power for 2 channel

Not sure if it makes a lot of difference, my current room is about 7.5mlong x 4m wide (lounge dinning that is now lounge / empty.  If I were to separate, the hi fi would go into the old dinning 4.2long x 3m wide but open on two sides.   I have listed the specs of my speakers below, link anyway as I could not copy and paste

https://www.paradigm.com/en/floorstanding/tribute

 

   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

If you're looking for a big multi-channel amp the Halcro's represent great value.

 

The more power the better IMO. The only time flea watts make sense is driving a tweeter, compression driver or some other ultra efficient driver directly. Good luck controlling all 5 drivers in the Paradigms without compromise using 15 watts.

 

You have a decent sized room, get a big amp.

Edited by kelossus
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I’ve got some Signature S8s and run them in a mixed HT and stereo setup with an Anthem d2v Pre and a Classe cp800 for 2 channel. Amplification is through a classe ca5300.

 

since deploying the ca5300 I’ve been very happy with my speaker performance. Prior to this I had a 170w per channel amp that did the job but not with the ease of the new classe which drops 350w per channel on my fronts.

 

I never tried the anthem p5, but it is the logical answer to what you might want to deploy. Same factory, supposedly a good match.

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10 minutes ago, JkSpinner said:

Maybe a novice question.  I get that watts are not watts.  I would assume larger speakers require larger amplifiers to drive them.  I have also tested these speakers with my amp and a Parasound (M21 I think)

 

Not at all.  The key is their efficiency.  Say a speaker is 90 db at 1 watt at 1 metre.  It's size does not matter.  If you play 1 watt of power into it, you will hear 90 db at 1 metre, and that's quite loud btw.

 

Yes, watts are not watts, in the sense that people obfuscate their ratings for sales purposes.  A "true" watt, is based on the RMS waveform. RMS = root mean square,  consider it a kind of average DC equivalent, broadly speaking, and should be a continuous rating.  Using peak voltage makes your figures look a bit better.  Using loose terms like PMPO (peak music power output) is all sorts of misleading.  So yep, they like to mislead.

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46 minutes ago, JkSpinner said:

Maybe a novice question.  I get that watts are not watts.  I would assume larger speakers require larger amplifiers to drive them.  I have also tested these speakers with my amp and a Parasound (M21 I think)

 

If you look across the range of speakers offered by any given brand you may often see that more drivers (larger speakers) correlates with higher efficiency.

Anyway, go for a big amp, coz why not!!!

Trip

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On 25/02/2021 at 6:28 PM, BugPowderDust said:

I’ve got some Signature S8s and run them in a mixed HT and stereo setup with an Anthem d2v Pre and a Classe cp800 for 2 channel. Amplification is through a classe ca5300.

 

since deploying the ca5300 I’ve been very happy with my speaker performance. Prior to this I had a 170w per channel amp that did the job but not with the ease of the new classe which drops 350w per channel on my fronts.

 

I never tried the anthem p5, but it is the logical answer to what you might want to deploy. Same factory, supposedly a good match.

The P5 looks great, but really out of the price range, not that I have set one.  I think, whether right or wrong that some extra power for the front 3 speakers is needed, but a 5x 100w would be sufficient for the rest

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On 25/02/2021 at 6:29 PM, aussievintage said:

 

Not at all.  The key is their efficiency.  Say a speaker is 90 db at 1 watt at 1 metre.  It's size does not matter.  If you play 1 watt of power into it, you will hear 90 db at 1 metre, and that's quite loud btw.

 

Yes, watts are not watts, in the sense that people obfuscate their ratings for sales purposes.  A "true" watt, is based on the RMS waveform. RMS = root mean square,  consider it a kind of average DC equivalent, broadly speaking, and should be a continuous rating.  Using peak voltage makes your figures look a bit better.  Using loose terms like PMPO (peak music power output) is all sorts of misleading.  So yep, they like to mislead.

Thanks Aussie, I guess it is just in the back of my head that big speakers need big amps, but also, I have trialled these speakers with a larger 250w Parasound amp and the difference was very noticeable, clearer, tighter bass, and generally clearer sound at low volumes.  I have considered selling the Tributes, but I like them,  maybe it’s a better pre amp that I need and not so much the power.  I do not know.  I am not unhappy with what I have.

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Howdy JK, I ran Studio 100s with a Musical Fidelity M6si and they sounded fantastic (originally I ran them with a Denon 4520 AVR). The M6si integrated really opened them up, improved detail and made the bass solid. 
 

Late last year I added Musical Fidelity 550K Superchargers between the M6Si and the Studio 100s and this increased performance again. I reckon the M6si plus the Superchargers may be a little like having the new Musical Fidelity M8xi (550w per channel into 8 ohm).

Even more recently I got further gains (but not as much as the amp or Superchargers) by adding Isoacoustic Gaia IIs as replacement feet. 
 

To my ears Paradigms partner well with Musical Fidelity amps. 
 

Cheers

 

F0407D9E-56AD-42E7-895D-9562AD99EC24.jpeg

4972E158-95A5-4BEE-B46A-0F03724C71CD.jpeg

3EA5DC1C-402A-465C-8C48-B7E9F4EF4DD8.jpeg

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8 hours ago, KRSDarwin said:

Howdy JK, I ran Studio 100s with a Musical Fidelity M6si and they sounded fantastic (originally I ran them with a Denon 4520 AVR). The M6si integrated really opened them up, improved detail and made the bass solid. 
 

Late last year I added Musical Fidelity 550K Superchargers between the M6Si and the Studio 100s and this increased performance again. I reckon the M6si plus the Superchargers may be a little like having the new Musical Fidelity M8xi (550w per channel into 8 ohm).

Even more recently I got further gains (but not as much as the amp or Superchargers) by adding Isoacoustic Gaia IIs as replacement feet. 
 

To my ears Paradigms partner well with Musical Fidelity amps. 
 

Cheers

 

F0407D9E-56AD-42E7-895D-9562AD99EC24.jpeg

4972E158-95A5-4BEE-B46A-0F03724C71CD.jpeg

3EA5DC1C-402A-465C-8C48-B7E9F4EF4DD8.jpeg

Thanks KRS

the M6SI is reasonably powerful to start with.  I also have an older Denon AVR, not sure what model, but it really struggles to power my tributes, even for HT, hence why I also want to power my centre channel better.  What sort of gains did you get from the power amp.  My CA 851a sound pretty good, however you need to turn it up loud before it sounds great.  Low volume listening is nothing special.  I think the CA851 would be considered a low end amp, so maybe a mid range pre amp may also be needed.  I do not see the value in an integrated amp if I am looking at a power amp as well.  I will have a look at the Music fidelity amps as well.  My requirements are bass, treble and HT bypass

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4 hours ago, JkSpinner said:

My CA 851a sound pretty good, however you need to turn it up loud before it sounds great.  Low volume listening is nothing special.

 

I can't see how a different amp (unless it has a Loudness feature) will help with low volume listening and in case you don't know or have forgotten I suggest you familiarise yourself with how the ear works in regard to perceived frequency response versus volume.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_compensation

 

"This is intended to be used at low listening levels, to compensate for the fact that as the loudness of audio decreases, the ear's lower sensitivity to extreme high and low frequencies may cause these signals to fall below threshold.[2] As a result audio material may become thin sounding at low volumes, losing bass and treble."

Edited by Satanica
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Howdy JK,

 

A more detailed report on the M6si and Superchargers driving the Paradigms can be found here:

 

 

I obtain prodigious but tight bass from the Paradigms with the Musical Fidelity amplification (though some of that is to do with my room) and because I listen to a lot of jazz I also enjoy the mid and treble ranges and I find the Paradigms perform well for me in that area.

 

The M6si has HT Bypass, which I use when we are watching TV or watching movies (streamed or DVD/BR)  I still have the AVR driving my Paradigm Centre and surrounds (and a speaker outside as Zone 2).

 

I never have to turn my volume past 12 (about half way) before it is more than plenty loud enough and there is no signs of strain or clipping. Lower listening levels are still clear.

 

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