muon* Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 2 hours ago, sootshe said: On 20/02/2021 at 9:49 AM, Bisguittin said: Yep. 240 or 220v selectable. Is there a problem if a consistent 220v is being fed into a component built for 240v? "I believe so". I beg to differ......I've been using a Thor PS10 for 5 years switched to 220V with a number of amps, preamps, integrateds, DAC's, hard disk servers, with no problems whatsoever. I originally used the 220V setting due to transformer hum on some Conrad Johnson gear & this reduced the hum almost completely. Since then I've always left it on the 220V setting & believe the system sounds better this way. YMMV of course. If you prefer the sound where circuits might be starved that is OK. Doesn't mean it is good practice. Each to their own. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbz Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 5 hours ago, sootshe said: I've been using a Thor PS10 for 5 years switched to 220V with a number of amps, preamps, integrateds, DAC's, hard disk servers, with no problems whatsoever. Certainly less harmful than over voltage however the SQ may be affected. Comes back to amp design, might not be a big issue with the regulated supply however the unregulated supply will "sag", this will affect max power output, but who listens at those levels. I assume you've checked/set the bias while feeding the amp 220Vac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 15 hours ago, mbz said: Certainly less harmful than over voltage however the SQ may be affected. Comes back to amp design, might not be a big issue with the regulated supply however the unregulated supply will "sag", this will affect max power output, but who listens at those levels. I assume you've checked/set the bias while feeding the amp 220Vac. Where you set the bias is more important than the small change in total available voltage. Also, if the total voltage is critical, the designer will have used regulators anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sootshe Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 19 hours ago, muon* said: If you prefer the sound where circuits might be starved that is OK. Doesn't mean it is good practice. Each to their own. Some people just can’t help themselves without having a dig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sootshe Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 1 hour ago, aussievintage said: Where you set the bias is more important than the small change in total available voltage. Also, if the total voltage is critical, the designer will have used regulators anyway. I’m currently using this with a Luxman 509X integrated & anyway would have no idea how to check/adjust/set the bias. I trust my ears.....they’ve served me well for many, many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muon* Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 1 hour ago, sootshe said: Some people just can’t help themselves without having a dig. No dig, but I would have looked to finding the reason for the hum with the Conrad Johnson gear rather than apply a band aid solution. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlr8or Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 @sootshe Can you share a photo of your PS10 screen showing typical incoming AC mains voltage before being regenerated to 220v? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woogie59 Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Just turned on my PS Audio P15. Voltage in at 6.30am was 249, fluctuating to 248. This seems rather higher than when I first installed a P10(now replaced with a P15) some years ago. I recently had the mains cable to the house replaced(original was almost 70 years old) so that may explain the increase. Maybe it's just a morning thing, I will monitor. I have attached a photo of the P15 screen showing voltage in. I also use an Isotek Super Titan which I find is more effective (sound wise) with my tube monos. Source components seem to like the P15. A mate has been installing UPS's(Uninterrupted Power Supplies)for over 30 years. He said that Australian voltage varies greatly but is especially high in WA(up to 270 in some parts). I only use Australian supplied components with one exception. That was a demo component supplied from the UK distributor/retailer. It is specified on it's rear as 230/240v. I checked with the manufacturer and they said that it was designed to work in 240v supplied markets like Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sootshe Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 19 hours ago, muon* said: No dig, but I would have looked to finding the reason for the hum with the Conrad Johnson gear rather than apply a band aid solution. Whatever..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sootshe Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 8 hours ago, xlr8or said: @sootshe Can you share a photo of your PS10 screen showing typical incoming AC mains voltage before being regenerated to 220v? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woogie59 Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) It's now 9:30am, voltage peaking at just over 250v. Maybe a call to the energy infrastructure company to ask why. I'm in Sydney suburbs. Edited February 23, 2021 by woogie59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 On 20/02/2021 at 1:40 PM, PositivelyMusicallyGeared said: If it is constantly on 250v, they may heed your call. 11 hours ago, woogie59 said: It's now 9:30am, voltage peaking at just over 250v. Maybe a call to the energy infrastructure company to ask why. I'm in Sydney suburbs. I hope they do give you a positive outcome, w. I suspect (unlike PMG) that they will just say "it's within the standard (+10%) ... nothing to see here ". Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisguittin Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 I'm just looking for a difinitive answer here. My system flows thru a Thor PS10. The only stated 220v component I have is a Ming Da MC-7R which has its own McChanson 240v to 220v step-down. I have the ability to set the Thor to universally distribute 220v. I should not do this because I would dynamically starve the rest of my components of their true dynamic potential? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlr8or Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, Bisguittin said: I'm just looking for a difinitive answer here. My system flows thru a Thor PS10. The only stated 220v component I have is a Ming Da MC-7R which has its own McChanson 240v to 220v step-down. I have the ability to set the Thor to universally distribute 220v. I should not do this because I would dynamically starve the rest of my components of their true dynamic potential? Correct, if these components are spec'd at 240volts AC mains. operation. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woogie59 Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 9 hours ago, andyr said: I hope they do give you a positive outcome, w. I suspect (unlike PMG) that they will just say "it's within the standard (+10%) ... nothing to see here ". Andy Andy, Rang Ausgrid yesterday. They can send a technician out to measure the incoming voltage at my board. Not convenient at the moment so later next month I will schedule a visit. This morning 247.6v, late yesterday 246.8v. As regulated voltage supply standard is "230v", this far exceeds the +/- 10 voltage variation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 11 minutes ago, woogie59 said: As regulated voltage supply standard is "230v", this far exceeds the +/- 10 voltage variation. 230 + 23 = 253 It actually doesn't exceed +10 % (it's a percentage) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 10 minutes ago, woogie59 said: Andy, Rang Ausgrid yesterday. They can send a technician out to measure the incoming voltage at my board. Not convenient at the moment so later next month I will schedule a visit. This morning 247.6v, late yesterday 246.8v. That's great. Please let us know a. what they find and b. what action they are going to take. Interesting that they need to send out someone to measure the voltage at your board. I would've thought 'smart meters' were smart enough to take the voltage readings continuously? 10 minutes ago, woogie59 said: As regulated voltage supply standard is "230v", this far exceeds the +/- 10 voltage variation. Que? 230v plus 10% is 230 + 23 = 253v? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirdDrawerDown Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 Quote On 20/02/2021 at 1:13 PM, PositivelyMusicallyGeared said: You can complain to the power supply co. if the voltage is over or on the allowed upper limit of the standard of 230v, and if they do respond, they will probably fix the problem for the whole of the area you are in. Unfortunately, PMG ... the "allowed upper limit" of a 230v supply - is 253v! After having gear burn out I did so complain, and got the most patronising written comments from the technician (who we never saw, just a note in the lettterbox). Including a rubbish accusation that we were using a cheap voltage tester from ebay and therefore that we thought we were experts. Actually, our audio dealer went through all other scenarios before concluding the damage was due to the mains power supply. This was after exhausting all other possibilities. He recommended the Electricity ombudsman. I didn't bother. I've worked in the transmission industry and know the attitudes. Curiously, the power company's technician investigated after the transformer out on the street went up in flames and was replaced. We were getting 255 volts and sometimes higher. We use a Thor PS10 to guarantee stable supply. At about $2k it's a little more expensive than the damage the power company did to our gear, but not much. Here's the link. If you google "Thor" or "transformer" you get all sorts of kiddie toys stuff. And as I've said here before, don't buy Thor's power boards, the filters throttle the music. https://www.thortechnologies.com.au/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itsmoi Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) Whe I arrived in Australia from the Netherlands in 1977 I had a newish alarm clock with me, 220 volt. It did not last real long, never forgotten that. And that thing is actually powered up fully 24/7 . Not like an amp or tv i.e which is more on standby then fully powered on. I would not trust a pure 220v device here plugged straight into the powerpoint Edited February 24, 2021 by Itsmoi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_m_54 Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 21 minutes ago, Itsmoi said: Whe I arrived in Australia from the Netherlands in 1977 I had a newish alarm clock with me, 220 volt. It did not last real long, never forgotten that. And that thing is actually powered up fully 24/7 . Not like an amp or tv i.e which is more on standby then fully powered on. I would not trust a pure 220v device here plugged straight into the powerpoint Doesn't Holland have 230V 50Hz power? Just an unlucky coincidence I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffen Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 4 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said: Doesn't Holland have 230V 50Hz power? Just an unlucky coincidence I think. Not in the ‘70s, though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itsmoi Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said: Doesn't Holland have 230V 50Hz power? Just an unlucky coincidence I think. Maybe now it does, not sure, but 220 was the standard back in the 70's when I still lived there Also i seem to remember the housing of the alarm clock had some heat related damage, like a slight melting of the plastic , it is a long time ago lol, recollections get hazy Edited February 24, 2021 by Itsmoi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PositivelyMusicallyGeared Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 2 hours ago, woogie59 said: Andy, Rang Ausgrid yesterday. They can send a technician out to measure the incoming voltage at my board. Not convenient at the moment so later next month I will schedule a visit. This morning 247.6v, late yesterday 246.8v. As regulated voltage supply standard is "230v", this far exceeds the +/- 10 voltage variation. You can argue that if the voltage is continuously close to the upper limit, the chances of it going over will be high; even though the tech did not get an over-limit reading at the time of inspection. You can present a record of your testings over a period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woogie59 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Thanks, chaps. Oh! I thought it was +/- 10volts, my bad. So I'm within spec and no need to get Ausgrid out. I'm happy I'm using the PS Audio P15 to regulate the supply. Found this Australian Standard. AS60038 : 230V is the nominal voltage with a +10% to –6% variation at the point of supply. So Andy your are correct, +10% upper limit is 253v(230+23). Lower limit -6% is 216.2v(230-.13.8) This is a good illustration:- tps://electricalconnection.com.au/when-voltage-varies/ This ABC 2018 article provides interesting reading on our supply voltage rating/cost of electricity:- abc.net.au/news/2018-11-08/high-voltage-fuelling-increased-electricity-consumption/10460212#:~:text=It%20is%20the%20force%20that,between%20216%20and%20253%20volts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuDog78 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Electrical engineers run the network like they do for a good reason. I personally think that everyone's equipment is going to be just fine (and that includes 1970s alarm clocks lol). FYI do not put a multimeter into your mains sockets to check your voltage use a noncontact meter for this, some cheaper multis are deadly (just if anyone was thinking about doing that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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