Is 220v safe to use?

[andyr]

12 minutes ago, muon* said:

You can take it that way if you choose too.

 

I hope you change your mind and keep participating as you should, there will always be people with different opinions.

 

      

 

Andy

 

[Ittaku]

Audio Research make gear specifically for the Australian market that they don't use anywhere else in the world. 220V gear blows caps in Australia according to them and they never recommend using gear made for the European 220V market. (Most interesting was I asked specifically about the Reference 10 preamplifier and they said that none is made for the Australian market so you should never use one. The interesting part of this is that all the ARC local resellers advertise this device, so presumably they've never actually sold one here since they don't exist haha.)

[Steffen]

8 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

Audio Research make gear specifically for the Australian market that they don't use anywhere else in the world. 220V gear blows caps in Australia according to them and they never recommend using gear made for the European 220V market.

 

The European market uses 230V +/- 10% (IEC 60038). Just saying.

[Ittaku]

2 minutes ago, Steffen said:

 

The European market uses 230V +/- 10% (IEC 60038). Just saying.

My bad. The ARC amps say 250V on the back for what it's worth (yes I know Australian nominal has dropped to 230, but 240 is still commonplace everywhere.)

[Steffen]

3 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

My bad. The ARC amps say 250V on the back for what it's worth (yes I know Australian nominal has dropped to 230, but 240 is still commonplace everywhere.)

 

I used to hit 250V regularly, although that seems to have subsided, people must have complained. Still, gear for the European market needs to be fit for up to 253V.

 

Perhaps Audio Research recognises that we’re on the Southern hemisphere, and transformers need to be wound the other way around  

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Steffen

[muon*]

1 hour ago, andyr said:

 

Errrhhh, no - I have never (in 50 years) used 220v gear.  

 

Andy

 

I did once but used it with a step down from Tortech.

[xlr8or]

There appears to be 2 different discussions taking place here. Actual versus theoretical AC mains voltages within a tolerance.

 

If you're measuring your home voltage regularly (like I do everyday through a digital display hooked up to my stepdowns) the theoretical mains crapola tolerance goes out the window as it's always idling at about the same voltage +/- 2-3% tolerance and on very rare occasions a few percent higher.

 

If you're worried about using 100v, 105v, 110v, 115v, 120v, 220v, or 230v gear in AU then stick to the local 240v stuff made here in AU. Otherwise, buy yourself a dozen or so stepdowns and variacs and enjoy the sound purchased from abroad.

 

Some stories from me include a 500v power filter cap go bad because the kucklehead I bought a lovely 100v Japanese 845 amp from was using a 240v to 115v step down. Chris Kimil said to me your lucky it didn't take out the power transformer. PS Audio 300 and 600 power regenerators crap out under 244v AC mains. Absolute crap R-core Chinese 220v traffos frying my 5 volt tube rectifiers and 6.3v 9-pin minis at 244v local mains voltage because the BS traffos where over spec'd at 220v with their heater supplies already. Once the 244v came in the 5v became 6.6v and the 6.3v became 8.2v under load - WT .... Trust me I even contemplated buying 6.3v rectifiers and 7.6v or 8v 9-pin minis to solve the problem. Eric McChanson sells stepdowns with different ratios (0.76 to 0.84) for this very reason to get the final value down to 220v.

 

I've had my rant.

Edited February 19, 2021 by xlr8or
Typos fixed

[Bisguittin]

1 hour ago, xlr8or said:

Eric McChanson sells stepdowns with different ratios (0.76 to 0.84) for this very reason to get the final value down to 220v.

These are gold! Eric's stepdown products not only give peace of mind, but in my humble opinion make 220v machinery sound better. Psycho-acoustics maybe?

................I don't particularly care.

[muon*]

18 minutes ago, Bisguittin said:

sound better

Wouldn't be surprising by having the correct input voltage, and as a consequence the circuit operating points at the voltages as was intended by the designer.

[Ratbob]

11 hours ago, muon* said:

Not good in the case of valve gear

+1  on that.

I had a nice little fire compliments of my 248v outlet.

[A J]

13 hours ago, StuDog78 said:

Australia is officially 230v not 240v (different in some states I think, QLD is one?) but anyway it doesn't matter.  It should be fine, standards for electrical goods in AUD and most the world need to take voltages from 253 V to 216.2 V "AS60038" that's your fridge, your phone charger and your microwave etc.   Distribution voltage is a variable thing and always is and always will be.  Voltage drops during transmission dependent on your distance from your local substation and its output voltage of course.  Its just 110 to 123v stuff that will give you major grief (smoke).  I would say that the amp you are looking at would be designed to take 240v 230v 216v or even 232.758659v and the components will work within the ranges the transformer will step down too also.  SQ wise, zero I would say with slight loss in gain maybe. If it has a voltage regulator in the circuit (more then likely) then zero.  You need to be careful with frequency not voltage in the 220v-240v range i.e. 60hz or 50hz but mainly only with ac motors.  

Just clear up a couple of misconceptions in these statements - it is not "more than likely" that a power amp will have a voltage regulator in the main circuit - this would be very unusual. Also frequency 50/60 is not mainly an AC motor issue - it swill of course affect motors, but it is important to know that all other things being equal - a transformer designed for 60hz operation will be underspecced operating at 50hz, the core will not be sufficient and will underperform, potentially saturate.

 

 

[mbz]

11 minutes ago, A J said:

Just clear up a couple of misconceptions in these statements - it is not "more than likely" that a power amp will have a voltage regulator in the main circuit - this would be very unusual.

Front end (differential pair, VAS,,) of power amp likely to run of regulated supply. Output and driver transistors mostly run off unregulated supply.

 

Agree such generic statements are a waste of time however misinformation is rife.

 

Running 220Vac amp on nominal 240Vac comes back to amp design, tolerances... Know nothing about valve electronics. Vintage yamaha CA-800 has 6800uf/50V caps running +/-50Vdc unregulated rails. With mains drift voltage often above 50V. Pic of main caps showing hills/valleys 3-4mm high, certainly not a distorted end cover, the distortion is dielectric material.

 

 

[aussievintage]

I am seeing a bit of a theme.  Yes,  marginally spec'd, pushed to the edge equipment will have problems if 220v used on 240.   This isn't just cheap stuff either,  some high end stuff is just as guilty.

 

44 minutes ago, mbz said:

Vintage yamaha CA-800 has 6800uf/50V caps running +/-50Vdc unregulated rails.

 

 

Yep right there.  Bad bad design

[Ittaku]

If you want to run 220V equipment, the PS Audio Directstream power regenerators allow you to set any output voltage from 220-240V, but they cost more than most electronics themselves.

[andyr]

1 hour ago, aussievintage said:

Yep right there.  Bad bad design

 

Actually, bad bad engineering - probably as a result of cost pressure from the company accountants. (50v caps are cheaper than 80v caps.)

 

1 hour ago, Ittaku said:

If you want to run 220V equipment, the PS Audio Directstream power regenerators allow you to set any output voltage from 220-240V, but they cost more than most electronics themselves.

 

As I think the Thor unit (P10?) does.

 

And

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by andyr

[aussievintage]

4 minutes ago, andyr said:

Actually, bad bad engineering - probably as a result of cost pressure from the company accountants. (50v caps are cheaper than 80v caps.)

 

 

It's the Engineers that do the design, and we rail against the bloody accountants and their stupid commercial decisions.    So it IS a bad design, maybe forced on an Engineer probably, by the commercial constraints as you say,  but even more likely some idiot in purchasing just changed the BOM without consulting the Engineers. 

[Bisguittin]

16 minutes ago, andyr said:

As I think the Thor unit (P10?) does.

Yep. 240 or 220v selectable.

 

 

Is there a problem if a consistent 220v is being fed into a component built for 240v?

Edited February 19, 2021 by Bisguittin

[mitchlim]

I brought my audiophile equipment from Hong Kong, they are mainly for 220v, and some said range 220-240v.

 

In turn out that 1/3 of equipments creates "Hum" (from the transformer) particularly the Tube amps ...  

 

Beside the Hum, after 6 years, none of them are damaged 

[Deepthought]

I run a Pass Labs amp' rated for 230V. It was humming quite loudly so I installed a Tortech unit (240-220V) and the humming was reduced considerably. Also subjectively sounds more relaxed to my ears.

My room is sitting a 244V in the morning and at some time in the afternoon it drops to 240V. Every day it's the same. It used to be 254V before there were changes made to the supply about 3 years ago.

Actually I think my whole system sounds happier at 224V. My amp' loves it and my preamp / dac etc are all running fine.

Edited February 20, 2021 by deepthought

[muon*]

14 minutes ago, Bisguittin said:

Yep. 240 or 220v selectable.

 

 

Is there a problem if a consistent 220v is being fed into a component built for 240v?

I believe so.

[PositivelyMusicallyGeared]

You can complain to the power supply co. if the voltage is over or on the allowed upper limit of the standard of 230v, and if they do respond, they will probably fix the problem for the whole of the area you are in.

[andyr]

5 minutes ago, PositivelyMusicallyGeared said:

You can complain to the power supply co. if the voltage is over or on the allowed upper limit of the standard of 230v, and if they do respond, they will probably fix the problem for the whole of the area you are in.

 

Unfortunately, PMG ... the "allowed upper limit" of a 230v supply - is 253v!  

 

Andy

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by andyr

[PositivelyMusicallyGeared]

23 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

Unfortunately, PMG ... the "allowed upper limit" of a 230v supply - is 253v!  

 

Andy

 

If it is constantly on 250v, they may heed your call.

[foryou]

my place always between 245-250V ....

[sootshe]

On 20/02/2021 at 10:04 AM, muon* said:

I believe so.

   On 20/02/2021 at 9:49 AM,  Bisguittin said: 

Yep. 240 or 220v selectable.

 

 

Is there a problem if a consistent 220v is being fed into a component built for 240v?

"I believe so".

 

I beg to differ......I've been using a Thor PS10 for 5 years switched to 220V with a number of amps, preamps, integrateds, DAC's, hard disk servers, with no problems whatsoever.

 

I originally used the 220V setting due to transformer hum on some Conrad Johnson gear & this reduced the hum almost completely. Since then I've always left it on the 220V setting & believe the system sounds better this way. YMMV of course.