Thelastjedi Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Is 220v products in particular amplifiers safe to use in Australia? Is there a major difference in sound quality between 220v and 240v? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Thelastjedi said: Is 220v products in particular amplifiers safe to use in Australia? I would say you are pushing the limits of safety using 220v products in Oz. If our electricity providers kept to the nominal standard of 230v - there wouldn't be an issue. But they don't - they basically kept using the old 240v infrastructure by making their "standard" 230v +10% / -3%. Which means they are not prosecuted if the mains they provide is between 223v and 253v. Your mains could easily be, say, 246v - which is 26v above the amp's voltage spec. 1 hour ago, Thelastjedi said: Is there a major difference in sound quality between 220v and 240v? If you mean ... is there a major difference in sound quality between and amp which is 'designed for' 220v (ie. whose power transformer's primary winding is specced for 220v) and an amp which is 'designed for' 240v (ie. whose power transformer's primary winding is specced for 240v) - the answer is NO! But what happens when you feed 246v to a power amp whose power transformer's primary winding is specced for 220v ... is that the voltages on the secondary side of the power transformer rise, accordingly. This may do damage to the amplifier circuit - depending on how it has been engineered. Andy 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuDog78 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Australia is officially 230v not 240v (different in some states I think, QLD is one?) but anyway it doesn't matter. It should be fine, standards for electrical goods in AUD and most the world need to take voltages from 253 V to 216.2 V "AS60038" that's your fridge, your phone charger and your microwave etc. Distribution voltage is a variable thing and always is and always will be. Voltage drops during transmission dependent on your distance from your local substation and its output voltage of course. Its just 110 to 123v stuff that will give you major grief (smoke). I would say that the amp you are looking at would be designed to take 240v 230v 216v or even 232.758659v and the components will work within the ranges the transformer will step down too also. SQ wise, zero I would say with slight loss in gain maybe. If it has a voltage regulator in the circuit (more then likely) then zero. You need to be careful with frequency not voltage in the 220v-240v range i.e. 60hz or 50hz but mainly only with ac motors. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muon* Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Not good in the case of valve gear as the secondarily will be higher, so that means heater voltages will be higher. Also depends with gear in general how close to tolerances are some aspect by design from the manufacturer, some use caps that have little head room, and some drive devices close to limits in the case of output devices and such, not most.... but some. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelastjedi Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 Thankyou for the information. This will definitely help in future purchases. A friend passed up on a good deal today because the amp was 220v and was unsure if it would be safe to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muon* Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 (edited) If stuck with a 220vac components always use a suitable step down transformer. Edit: You did see my previous post? Edited February 19, 2021 by muon* 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 (edited) 31 minutes ago, StuDog78 said: Australia is officially 230v not 240v It certainly is - "officially", Stuart. But the standard all the electrical distributors work to is ... 230v with a range of +10% to -3%. So you might easily get 250v. Andy 3 minutes ago, muon* said: Not good in the case of valve gear as the secondarily will be higher, so that means heater voltages will be higher. Also depends with gear in general how close to tolerances are some aspect by design from the manufacturer, some use caps that have little head room, and some drive devices close to limits in the case of output devices and such, not most.... but some. ^ ^ ^ Zackly! Andy Edited February 19, 2021 by andyr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelastjedi Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 1 minute ago, muon* said: If stuck with a 220vac components always use a suitable step down transformer. Edit: You did see my previous post? Just read through it now. Why cant we all share the same voltage around the world lol that would make things much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muon* Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Yes, the 230vac standard is a joke, most people get 240vac and upwards, sometimes close to 260vac. I used to get a solid 250vac here 24/7. Sometimes mains are stable like they were for myself and sometimes people get wildly fluctuating levels depending on day and times. We are all independent countries so think and act differently where standards are put in place, some countries have more than one voltage, the USA for instance. Just how it worked out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelastjedi Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 29 minutes ago, muon* said: Yes, the 230vac standard is a joke, most people get 240vac and upwards, sometimes close to 260vac. I used to get a solid 250vac here 24/7. Sometimes mains are stable like they were for myself and sometimes people get wildly fluctuating levels depending on day and times. We are all independent countries so think and act differently where standards are put in place, some countries have more than one voltage, the USA for instance. Just how it worked out. I have been meaning to buy a ups powerboard for my system but have never gone around to doing so. Ive seen there are some crazy prices from companies like isotek and ps audio that supply power conditioners and powerboards. Is there are major difference in something affordable like the one in the photo compared to the expensive isotek powerboards that cost 3x the price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal beat Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 47 minutes ago, Thelastjedi said: Just read through it now. Why cant we all share the same voltage around the world lol that would make things much easier. totally agree. While you are at it, can you get everyone to drive on the same side of the road 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuDog78 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 I didn't think mains voltage fluctuation is a problem, its just a reality, and yeah valve gear will be effected, but negatively, I wouldn't think so. If so, valve amps would be metres high at the dump as would every cathode ray tv back in the day. TheLastJedi what amp are you looking at? Metal Beat lol yeah everyone drives on the right side, according to them anyway . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muon* Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 13 minutes ago, StuDog78 said: I didn't think mains voltage fluctuation is a problem, its just a reality, and yeah valve gear will be effected, but negatively, I wouldn't think so. If so, valve amps would be metres high at the dump as would every cathode ray tv back in the day. TheLastJedi what amp are you looking at? Metal Beat lol yeah everyone drives on the right side, according to them anyway . You don't know a lot about valve gear, it appears. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuDog78 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Muon* So you saying voltage fluctuation in Aus destroys value amps??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muon* Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Thelastjedi said: I have been meaning to buy a ups powerboard for my system but have never gone around to doing so. Ive seen there are some crazy prices from companies like isotek and ps audio that supply power conditioners and powerboards. Is there are major difference in something affordable like the one in the photo compared to the expensive isotek powerboards that cost 3x the price? Wrong type of device for running over seas devices. A step down transformer steps our240vac to 220vac or whatever the device is made for. https://www.tortech.com.au/product-category/voltage-converters/ Even Tortech work on ours being 240vac. Economy European Step Down Transformer – The Economy European Step Down transformer is designed to operate your European or Asian 220/230 Volts rated appliance in Australia on the Australian 240 Volts power mains supply. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ For you with normal stuff a regulated supply is best, and that is what the PS Audio things are, and why they cost more. An UPS IMO is pretty useless, and surge protectors pretty useless too. Filter boards can be useful in cleaning the supply but some are not suitable for amplification (Amps) and will degrade their performance, some will not. 18 minutes ago, StuDog78 said: Muon* So you saying voltage fluctuation in Aus destroys value amps??? When you have a higher than spec'ed heater voltage it will shorten the life span of valves. Any device is designed to operate at specific voltages, when those are not as designed for then the device is not operating as intended by the designer. Edited February 19, 2021 by muon* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Guys, most components/devices have tolerances on their rated voltages, similar to the power, and yeah, valve heaters are included. So a valve heater with a +/- 10% tolerance will be fine. Most valve gear will be fine. Designers who push the margins (not good) might cause problems. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelastjedi Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 Just now, muon* said: Wrong type of device for running over seas devices. A step down transformer steps our240vac to 220vac or whatever the device is made for. https://www.tortech.com.au/product-category/voltage-converters/ Even Tortech work on ours being 240vac. Economy European Step Down Transformer – The Economy European Step Down transformer is designed to operate your European or Asian 220/230 Volts rated appliance in Australia on the Australian 240 Volts power mains supply. For you with normal stuff a regulated supply is best, and that is what the PS Audion things are, and why they cost more. An UPS IMO is pretty useless, and surge protectors pretty useless too. Filter boards can be useful in cleaning the supply but some are not suitable for amplification (Amps) and will degrade their performance, some will not. Sorry my question wasnt towards running overseas amplifiers but what the difference is between an affordable ups powerboard and something from these companies like isotek and ps audio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muon* Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Thelastjedi said: Sorry my question wasnt towards running overseas amplifiers but what the difference is between an affordable ups powerboard and something from these companies like isotek and ps audio. I answered at the end of that previous post. Edit: the font is the same as it gets changed from pasting stuff in from elsewhere. Edited February 19, 2021 by muon* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuDog78 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 (edited) muon* why would you use a transformer stepping from 240vac to 220vac when the voltage in a domestic circuit could and would fluctuate within that range anyway? The transformer you posted does not regulate voltage btw its just a toroidal (pic below), so in some cases lowering the voltage well below 220v if given a lower voltage in the supply is received? The PS and the Isoteks do I believe regulate the volta ge but needed??? that's another question. Edited February 19, 2021 by StuDog78 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muon* Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 6 minutes ago, StuDog78 said: muon* why would you use a transformer stepping from 240vac to 220vac when the voltage in a domestic circuit could and would fluctuate within that range anyway? The transformer you posted does not regulate voltage btw its just a toroidal (pic below), so in some cases lowering the voltage well below 220v if given a lower voltage in the supply is received? The PS and the Isoteks do I believe regulate the volta ge but needed??? that's another question. Nobody said every supply fluctuates! Mine was a steady 250vac 24/7, so if I had a 220vac device it would be running 30vac above spec constantly, but some others here have reported fluctuating supplies. Also it will be better to be in a better zone of fluctuations in relationship to what you are powering than not! Look at a 220vac device, if it is used here and someones mains fluctuates between 244vac and 256vac that device is going to see 24vac to 36vac above spec', now if we use that step down transformer it will be between 4vac and 16vac above spec'. It's pretty basic. This subject has been discussed here numerous times, but you are new so this is new for you, so the questions are understandable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al.M Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 (edited) If you can find it there is a similar post discussing this and the conclusion was long term, theoretically and in some areas where the mains supply goes really high the risk of amp parts failure increases Edit: not necessarily immediate failure but shorter life span. However, in practice many of us are using 220v gear with not many reports of issues. So try it with some knowledge of the risk. Edited February 19, 2021 by Al.M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuDog78 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 (edited) 23 minutes ago, muon* said: Look at a 220vac device, if it is used here and someones mains fluctuates between 244vac and 256vac that device is going to see 24vac to 36vac above spec', now if we use that step down transformer it will be between 4vac and 16vac above spec'. It's pretty basic. This subject has been discussed here numerous times, but you are new so this is new for you, so the questions are understandable. Yeah its pretty basic, why would I think devices are designed to handle that? I am new here, I will stop commenting and just let the older members comment from now on. Sorry for stepping on your toes mate. Edited February 19, 2021 by StuDog78 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 2 hours ago, metal beat said: totally agree. While you are at it, can you get everyone to drive on the same side of the road Xackly! And all humans should be the same colour and follow the same religion. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 32 minutes ago, Al.M said: However, in practice many of us are using 220v gear with not many reports of issues. Errrhhh, no - I have never (in 50 years) used 220v gear. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muon* Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 40 minutes ago, StuDog78 said: Yeah its pretty basic, why would I think devices are designed to handle that? I am new here, I will stop commenting and just let the older members comment from now on. Sorry for stepping on your toes mate. You can take it that way if you choose too. I hope you change your mind and keep participating as you should, there will always be people with different opinions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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