Marantz Amp / Speaker setup

[muon*]

Set it to the 4 ohms setting according to the Marantz manual, It's the sensible choice

 

@andyr

Edited February 13, 2021 by muon*

[andyr]

1 minute ago, April Snow said:

Thank you Andy, I shall mull this info over - seems people are divided between setting the amp as the Marantz manual suggests to 4ohm and not changing it from 8ohm that it is currently on.

 

I would've thought it's worth trying (given the Marantz doco says it can be done) - just don't think of it as a 'perfect' solution!  

 

1 minute ago, April Snow said:

I was encouraged to buy the Electra but did not have the room for it in my cabinet - but welcome other suggestions

 

It does not run hot (so doesn't need a lot of space around it).

 

1 minute ago, April Snow said:

I am looking for something with similar dimensions to the current amp - height of that is 10.5cm which allows for cooling room within the cabinet. 

 

If you look here:  Amateur OB speaker builder and his ARC based digital system - Page 23 - Showcase Your System & Build Threads - StereoNET

 

... you will see that Con has just taken delivery of a pair of March P451 Class D monoblocs.  Which I suspect means his previous Class D (NC400) amp will shortly be for sale.    That will certainly drive your B&Ws ... and your new Vienna Accoustics.  

 

Andy

 

[Telecine]

1 hour ago, andyr said:

 

I would've thought it's worth trying (given the Marantz doco says it can be done) - just don't think of it as a 'perfect' solution!  

 

 

It does not run hot (so doesn't need a lot of space around it).

 

 

If you look here:  Amateur OB speaker builder and his ARC based digital system - Page 23 - Showcase Your System & Build Threads - StereoNET

 

... you will see that Con has just taken delivery of a pair of March P451 Class D monoblocs.  Which I suspect means his previous Class D (NC400) amp will shortly be for sale.    That will certainly drive your B&Ws ... and your new Vienna Accoustics.  

 

Andy

 

 

The current Marantz integrated amp has a Preamp out function. If @April Snow felt that more power was needed to drive the Vienna Acoustics, the  Class D (NC400) amp could be connected to drive them. The amp would be small and unobtrusive.

[April Snow]

1 hour ago, andyr said:

 

I would've thought it's worth trying (given the Marantz doco says it can be done) - just don't think of it as a 'perfect' solution!  

 

 

It does not run hot (so doesn't need a lot of space around it).

 

 

If you look here:  Amateur OB speaker builder and his ARC based digital system - Page 23 - Showcase Your System & Build Threads - StereoNET

 

... you will see that Con has just taken delivery of a pair of March P451 Class D monoblocs.  Which I suspect means his previous Class D (NC400) amp will shortly be for sale.    That will certainly drive your B&Ws ... and your new Vienna Accoustics.  

 

Andy

 

No, I won't keep the Marantz unless it gets hitched with something else so I can keep the features I have already - I know it is not a great solution on it's own. I will be hunting .............

 

The NC400  no idea what that is - but shall keep an eye on the classifieds.

 

Did not know that Elektra does not run hot- just assumed it did. Oops

I was encouraged strongly to buy that at the time.

 

I guess just have to wait and see what happens when the speakers get set up and fingers will be crossed..........

 

I kind of feel like I have done things back to front - maybe I should have stuck in my own lane 

 

Maybe I will be better off just storing the Vienna's until I find the proper amp.

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by April Snow

[Pegasus]

1 minute ago, April Snow said:

No, I won't keep the Marantz unless it gets hitched with something else so I can keep the features I have already - I know it is not a great solution on it's own. I will be hunting .............

 

The NC400  no idea what that is - but shall keep an eye on the classifieds.

 

Did not know that Elektra does not run hot- just assumed it did. Oops

I was encouraged strongly to buy that at the time - I can feel the "I did tell you that April" ......

 

Yep, I told you so!

By the way, it isn't Russ's anymore.

I bought it!

it's on it's way to me as I type.

 

1 minute ago, April Snow said:

 

I guess just have to wait and see what happens when the speakers get set up and fingers will be crossed..........

 

I kind of feel like I have done things back to front - maybe I should have stuck in lane 

 

 

 

[muon*]

5 minutes ago, April Snow said:

I kind of feel like I have done things back to front - maybe I should have stuck in lane 

 

Maybe I will be better off just storing the Vienna's until I find the proper amp.

No, you did very good!

 

Speakers first, then amp if you need to improve on it.

 

Use the Marantz with the Baby Grands for a while and then maybe when budget allows start looking at and trialing something else if you want to improve on the Marantz.

[Luc]

1 hour ago, Pegasus said:

Yep, I told you so!

By the way, it isn't Russ's anymore.

I bought it!

it's on it's way to me as I type.

Hey Andrew, perhaps a bit less chest thumping and a bit more, how can I help you Sue with your amplification needs for your new speakers.

[buddyev]

1 hour ago, muon* said:

No, you did very good!

 

Speakers first, then amp if you need to improve on it.

 

Use the Marantz with the Baby Grands for a while and then maybe when budget allows start looking at and trialing something else if you want to improve on the Marantz.

This is the best advice 

[andyr]

1 hour ago, Pegasus said:

Yep, I told you so!

By the way, it isn't Russ's anymore.

I bought it!

it's on it's way to me as I type.

 

36 minutes ago, Luc said:

Hey Andrew, perhaps a bit less chest thumping and a bit more, how can I help you Sue with your amplification needs for your new speakers.

 

Quite simple, Luc - Andrew (Pegasus) has the Elektra for a while (and realises how good it is) ... then he auditions a Magtech ... realises how much better that is ... buys one and sells his Elektra ... and @April Snowcan buy it.  

 

Andy

 

[April Snow]

It is OK @Luc and @andyr  Pegasus did encourage me to buy the Elektra but it did not meet my space limitiations, as it is a little too high and I thought it might get hot in the spot I have.

 

Pegasus is the one that has suggested I look at the option of maybe adding another amp to the Marantz - as I am struggling to find an Amp that will give me what I have now but with more grunt & not be too high for the spot I have ..............the search is still on 

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by April Snow

[sir sanders zingmore]

7 minutes ago, April Snow said:

It is OK @Luc and @andyr  Pegasus did encourage me to buy the Elektra but it did not meet my space limitiations, as it is a little too high and I thought it might get hot in the spot I have.

 

Pegasus is the one that has suggested I look at the option of maybe adding another amp to the Marantz - as I am struggling to find an Amp that will give me what I have now but with more grunt ..............the search is still on 

 

 

Limited space and heat concerns - class D sounds like the perfect solution (ignore the naysayers please)

 

[muon*]

More grunt is fine as long as you also like the sound of it with the baby grands, the Elektra may have been suitable in this regard.

Just emphasizing that not just any amp with more grunt will be the best option, like a Class D amp you may like with the BG's, but you may not.

Always try and trial first, and the longer you can trial the better.

[April Snow]

6 minutes ago, muon* said:

More grunt is fine as long as you also like the sound of it with the baby grands, the Elektra may have been suitable in this regard.

Just emphasizing that not just any amp with more grunt will be the best option, like a Class D amp you may like with the BG's, but you may not.

Always try and trial first, and the longer you can trial the better.

I guess using the word "grunt" was tacky on my part - maybe I should have said "a little more power than I have (and it is really what I meant) .........

hard to try different amps though when there are just none to be had - the local Video Pro today had hardly anything and none even set up because the very few they do have, they have to keep in boxes. Was so sad - I asked to look at what they had and they are not allowed to open anything up. Wow

Edited February 13, 2021 by April Snow

[muon*]

2 minutes ago, April Snow said:

I guess using the word "grunt" was tacky on my part - maybe I should have said "a little more power than I have (and it is really what I meant) .........

hard to try different amps though when there are just none to be had - the local Video Pro today had hardly anything and none even set up because the very few they do have, they have to keep in boxes. Was so sad - I asked to look at what they had and they are not allowed to open anything up. Wow

Grunt or more power, either way all amps sound different and will pair differently with the BG's even if they have the same rated power.

I understand it is difficult to try different amps, but hopefully a few kind members here will have different amps spare at times and can let you try them out even if they are not for sale it will allow you to get familiar with the different matches with those nice new speakers, that way yo8u will be more informed in finding something you will like.

If I had any spare amps that might suit I'd happily loan them to you to try, unfortunately I'm a one amp man and I never stray

 

[April Snow]

9 minutes ago, muon* said:

 either way all amps sound different and will pair differently with the BG's even if they have the same rated power.

 

That it true - you reminded me, the first Marantz I brought made my B&W speakers sound too bright - so I went back and got the one I have now (Video Pro let me swap it) after watching a You Tube Review as it was only new out, and it was a warmer sound and more pleasing with the B&Ws.

[Pegasus]

I have several power amplifiers that I have offered April to try out (including the Elektra).

April insists that the amp must fit inside her AV cabinet.

That means a class D amplifier is the logical choice.

I have suggested several suitable Class D amps in numerous emails and text messages to April, in particular the PS Audio Stellar S300.

Luc, we don't need your sour grapes here in this forum.

Are you still cranky that I beat you to the Droplet?

You were at Terry's place when April & I were there and she bought the speakers from Terry.

So you already knew that I have been helping her out in her audio upgrade quest for the past 12 months.

[April Snow]

First up, the speakers were brought a week ago, this was not an expected purchase on the day - I was actually considering getting higher Spec B&Ws as an upgrade and had been saving up, I even went to audition them but they were not set up due to no supply at this time.  But I am so grateful to have these Vienna's & want to take just as good care of them as the previous owner did as I know they meant a lot to him.

 

This week I had to learn what Speaker Impediance is, ohms, watts,  Class A, A/B & D amplifiers are - things I never heard of, trying to understand it all - and I KNOW I have to upgrade my Amp at some stage for any new speaker I may have brought. I have read what I can, watched You Tube Videos & been on forums to try and understand what most of you take for granted knowing. I do not want to damage either the speakers or my current Amp either.

 

Pegasus has been helping me (and I am very grateful) he did point me to the direction to buy the Elektra but it is too big for my AV cabinet & I did not want to sit it on the floor beside it as it would not quite work out there, I am sorry but aesthetics are important to me too and would rather avoid sitting things on a floor if I can avoid it.

 

I want to explore other options that might fit within the cabinet and give me the current features I have now but be a better system. This is proving to be difficult. I am also considering maybe getting a different cabinet and wall mounting the TV, I am just trying to get it right first up if I can as I am not in a financial position to continually upgrade. 

 

I had never heard of Class A/AB/D amplifiers - until this week.

Pegasus has suggested some Class D ones but I have never heard them - so I read up on them, although he did point out they do not sound as good - but yes, he has given me options to consider. But it is hard to when one has never heard a Class D or knows what difference it is. 

 

I came on here with my question because I thought my Amp was only 6/8 ohms rated but on Friday I discovered after checking the online manual there is a 4ohm setting in there - I just wanted to know if I should try that or not. I did ask Pegasus but he was not sure as he is not familiar with the "all in one" combo I have  - so I posted to see if anyone else may know and I went to Video Pro to ask as they sold me the unit. 

 

Anyway, sorry for all the fuss ......... but I shall find the right thing and another Class D has been suggested to me as well, but I have not had time to research it just yet. I like the idea of the Class D as it does tick all the boxes but I do not know what it will sound like. My current Marantz is quite "warm" in sound and that was perfect with my B&W which can be bright - but until I actually get the Viennas I will not know I guess.

 

It has been a lot to think about in a week and had to be the busiest week ever at work on top, so I think I got overloaded with too much to be honest - but I am grateful for the help Pegasus has given as I am from all my friends here & feel so lucky that such beautiful speakers will be in my home. I just want to do the right thing by them.

[Quark]

The 4 Ohm setting will reduce power. It's the safe option if you play LOUD, but will probably sound worse at lower volumes.

[muon*]

You'll be fine, Sue.

 

Speakers and amp will be OK too

[andyr]

4 hours ago, Quark said:

The 4 Ohm setting will reduce power. It's the safe option if you play LOUD, but will probably sound worse at lower volumes.

 

I'm curious what your reasoning is for saying "The 4 Ohm setting will reduce power "?

 

Amplifiers normally have increased power output, the lower the load - for instance, the Magtech is specified as:  Output Power: 500 Watts @ 8 Ohm / 900 Watts @ 4 Ohm.  And something like 1500w into 2 ohm, I believe.

 

Also, April's Marantz amp is specified as:  75w into 8 ohms / 100w into 6 ohms.

 

Andy

 

[Quark]

47 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

I'm curious what your reasoning is for saying "The 4 Ohm setting will reduce power "?

 

Amplifiers normally have increased power output, the lower the load - for instance, the Magtech is specified as:  Output Power: 500 Watts @ 8 Ohm / 900 Watts @ 4 Ohm.  And something like 1500w into 2 ohm, I believe.

 

Also, April's Marantz amp is specified as:  75w into 8 ohms / 100w into 6 ohms.

 

Andy

 

 

It will drop the rail voltage to reduce power when 4 Ohm is selected. You will get more power if left at the 8 Ohm setting (at least until the protection kicks in).

[andyr]

23 minutes ago, Quark said:

 

It will drop the rail voltage to reduce power when 4 Ohm is selected. You will get more power if left at the 8 Ohm setting (at least until the protection kicks in).

 

 

Is this something which is specific to April's Marantz amp, Q?

 

Because all the AB amps I've built over the years (7 types, at last count) have the same rail voltage, irrespective of what their spkr load is (until they get to clipping, that is).

 

Andy

 

[petetherock]

On 13/02/2021 at 10:35 AM, April Snow said:

OK now this has just confused me again.............

So am I to assume it is safe to leave the Amp set at 8 even though the speakers are 4?

And the reason for doing so is because to decrease to 4 would put more stress on the amp and cause it to maybe overheat?

 

But would it be bad for the speakers if they are 4 ohm and the amp is still on 8 ohm?

 

Now me thinks I need to think of a new amp again..........

 

Mate, you be fine driving those speakers.

Keep it at 8ohm so you don't throttle the current.

I've used 8 Marantz amps from the budget amps to the Reference series, and I've always set it at 8ohms for all my 4 ohm speakers. 

1 hour ago, andyr said:

 

I'm curious what your reasoning is for saying "The 4 Ohm setting will reduce power "?

 

Amplifiers normally have increased power output, the lower the load - for instance, the Magtech is specified as:  Output Power: 500 Watts @ 8 Ohm / 900 Watts @ 4 Ohm.  And something like 1500w into 2 ohm, I believe.

 

Also, April's Marantz amp is specified as:  75w into 8 ohms / 100w into 6 ohms.

 

Andy

 

If you have a top shelf amp, it should double it's power as the resistance lowers. But cheaper amps don't do that.. they just throttle the current.

So one thing you should look out for when buying an amp is to see how it behaves as the resistance is lowered.

Eg my Marantz PM 11, is rated at 100w into 8ohms, 200w into 4ohms and is stable down to 400w at 2 ohms.

[andyr]

12 minutes ago, petetherock said:

 

If you have a top shelf amp, it should double it's power as the resistance lowers.

 

 

Agreed - I gave the example of a Magtech.

 

12 minutes ago, petetherock said:

 

But cheaper amps don't do that.. they just throttle the current.

 

 

Yes - but I'm interested to know what mechanism the Marantz uses to deliberately "throttle the current "?

 

Andy

 

[Quark]

56 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

Is this something which is specific to April's Marantz amp, Q?

 

Because all the AB amps I've built over the years (7 types, at last count) have the same rail voltage, irrespective of what their spkr load is (until they get to clipping, that is).

 

Andy

 

 

It's typical of a lot of low/mid range stereo amps and AVRs nowadays.

 

Agree, a well engineered amp/AVR should maintain rail voltage at any sane speaker impedance.