Marantz Amp / Speaker setup

[April Snow]

I am having an upgrade to a speaker that has the following specs:

Impedance: 4 Ohms  

Sensitivity:  90 dB
Recommended Amplifier Watts: 50 - 400 Watts

 

I am desperately looking for an replacement Amp that will be more suitable but struggling because it has to have similar specs to my current one for connecting all my "goodies" (DVD/Media Player & TV) and have bluetooth if possible and be a slim height (no more than 120mm high) to allow for air flow due to cabinet restraints. The cabinet is open backed and the Amp will be on it's own in there and when in use I keep the front open as well.

 

But my question relates to my current Amp I have now to tide me over until I find the right replacement.

 

I have a Marantz NR1200 -

This is it here:

https://www.videopro.com.au/p-12924-marantz-nr1200-network-receiver-with-heos.aspx

 

This Amp is really good with my current B&W 707S2  speakers which are 8ohm & 84 db.

 

But my question is this: according to Video pro website my Marantz has power output  6/8 ohms.

 

But looking up the Marantz NR1200 Manual on line I think I can set it to 4 ohms???????

 

http://manuals.marantz.com/nr1200/NA/EN/DRDZSYrhoargxb.php

 

It is a little confusing to me - because the specs say 6/8 ohms on Video Pro website - no mention of 4ohms.

 

Or does the Marantz Manual mean only set to 4 ohms if you are connecting two lots of speakers as they mention Zone 2?

I am only connecting the one pair in the main zone.

 

I took it that the explanation is only telling you how to access the speaker setting on the display by pressing on the Zone 2 buttons etc. to get to that menu?

 

I am hoping another Marantz owner may know???

 

I do not want to set up the speakers and damage either them or my current Amp.

I will store the speakers until I find a better amp. if I have to.

 

I have also had it suggested I can buy another more powerful/suitable Amp that is JUST an amp and put it to the current one - so that way I can have the best of both worlds with power form the new one but able to use the current one for the features it is giving me as the current one has the facility to do that (shall attach pic of back panel of current amp).

 

I have looked at Class D amps too, but been told they do not sound as nice as the A/B ones???? even though they are smaller and run nice and cool?

 

It is obvious I am not understanding everything and I am really struggling and doing a crash course as I only purchased the new speakers last week and it was an unexpected one, so I trying to now catch up.

 

Any advice would be appreciated or any suggestions .......

 

thanking you in advance and sorry this is long winded, hope it makes sense?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sir sanders zingmore]

9 minutes ago, April Snow said:

I am desperately looking for an replacement Amp that will be more suitable but struggling

My 2c... without knowing what the new speakers are, it’s hard to judge. 

It’s worth noting that B&Ws are not easy to drive at the best of times. If your current amp is “really good” with B&Ws then it’s likely to be good with your new speakers. 
I would not be “desperate” to replace what you have, why not try it first with your new speakers and see how it sounds?

[April Snow]

Yes I have been told that about the BWs by others .........that might explain why it gets a little toasty

 

It is just confusing because Marantz NR1200 specs are 6/8 ohms

but it appears in their online manual 4 oms is an option? Unless they are talking about setting it to that if you are using 2 x pairs of speakers and not one? 

 

I  just do not want to damage anything by doing it wrong when the speakers arrive. I do want to test the speakers with the current Amp first - but don't want to cook it.

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by April Snow

[Monty]

Congratulations on new speakers. What are you getting? I think you will be fine driving them with your current amp. The back of the amp says 4 ohms is fine for driving one pair only.

 

It's never a bad idea to keep things at a low to moderate volume until you are confident things are working comfortably.

[Cafad]

Most amps that can have two sets of speakers connected have instructions that say something like "2 pairs of speakers can be connected if they are both above 6 Ohms, but only one pair can be connected if they are 4 Ohms".  

 

This is what Marantz seem to be saying on the bottom of the page.  

 

They have really outdone themselves with the indirect nature of the instructions above though.  

Edited February 12, 2021 by Cafad
words, need more words.

[Dazz]

Hi

I am using a Marantz SR6003 and many years ago before i brought a power amp I was running my mains through the AVR. They were 4ohm speakers (Krix Lyrix) and it had no trouble driving them. The manual states wattages in 8 & 6 ohm, similar to yours. 

My AVR does get hot so i brought a cheap notebook cooler (2 fans) which I place on top. Keeps it cool. I got that back in 2009 and its still going.

Cheers

[April Snow]

1 hour ago, Monty said:

Congratulations on new speakers. What are you getting? I think you will be fine driving them with your current amp. The back of the amp says 4 ohms is fine for driving one pair only.

 

It's never a bad idea to keep things at a low to moderate volume until you are confident things are working comfortably.

Oh the new speakers (purchased pre-loved)

https://www.stereo.net.au/reviews/review-vienna-acoustics-beethoven-baby-grand-symphony-edition-loudspeakers

 

May I ask where it says 4 ohm is OK on the back of the amp? 

 

At the moment with the B&Ws I do tend to drive the Amp to 70 on my volume control to get the level I like .....but some have mentioned this is because B&W need to be pushed more to get that volume and the new ones will not need that much and that makes sense to me - (once that sunk in). Wish I was not such a newbie on all this !

 

Also I am trying to clarify if I need to go in to the settings to change the speakers to 4ohm? Or is that not necessary?

 

I would rather try and use my current Amp if I can to make sure I like the "new sound" 

B&W are a little bright and sparkly and I do like that .........

 

But I will replace the Amp for better once I find the right thing......

 

Thought Class D Amp might fit the bill only community seems divided on the sound signature of that ........

Here I am trying to learn all this within a week !!

 

 

 

 

 

[April Snow]

1 hour ago, Cafad said:

Most amps that can have two sets of speakers connected have instructions that say something like "2 pairs of speakers can be connected if they are both above 6 Ohms, but only one pair can be connected if they are 4 Ohms".  

 

This is what Marantz seem to be saying on the bottom of the page.  

 

They have really outdone themselves with the indirect nature of the instructions above though.  

Agreed, it is confusing and can be taken either way...........does not help that websites that sell the Amp are not clear either as most actually have the amp listed as 8 ohms only.......................

 

but still trying to clarify if I need to change the setting within the amp.

 

I have emailed Marantz but of course they are only there weekdays. 

I did not discover this 4ohm setting until yesterday when I decided to check the online manual, or else I would have done it sooner.

1 hour ago, Dazz said:

Hi

I am using a Marantz SR6003 and many years ago before i brought a power amp I was running my mains through the AVR. They were 4ohm speakers (Krix Lyrix) and it had no trouble driving them. The manual states wattages in 8 & 6 ohm, similar to yours. 

My AVR does get hot so i brought a cheap notebook cooler (2 fans) which I place on top. Keeps it cool. I got that back in 2009 and its still going.

Cheers

That is encouraging - that is why it was suggested to me to get a more suitable one to couple to the Marantz I think - Marantz will let me keep my features I need but the more powerful one may not get so hot that would be doing the actual heavy lifting as it will be able to handle the load better? I think that is what was meant, it all got rather technical quick and over my head ............. 

Edited February 12, 2021 by April Snow

[sir sanders zingmore]

12 minutes ago, April Snow said:

Also I am trying to clarify if I need to go in to the settings to change the speakers to 4ohm? Or is that not necessary?

From the link you provided it says (my bold)

 

“4ohms:

Select when the impedance for any of the connected speakers is 4 Ω/ohms.”

 

Your new speakers are 4ohms so set it to 4 ohms 

 

[April Snow]

Just now, sir sanders zingmore said:

From the link you provided it says (my bold)

 

“4ohms:

Select when the impedance for any of the connected speakers is 4 Ω/ohms.”

 

Your new speakers are 4ohms so set it to 4 ohms 

 

Thank you - I was not questioning you - just was not sure what to look at (thank you for explaining where to look)

I am a newbie so it is all new to me doing trying to crash course in a week 

 

I also found this in the Spec Sheet I downloaded yesterday going through my print outs I did yesterday

one can see why I am confused - it mentions the rated output for 8 and 6 but no mention of rated output for 4ohms.

So was not sure if I could run the 4ohm speakers or not.

 

 

[hopefullguy]

do not change the selector to 4 ohms... leave it at 8 ohms.

 

just too many to list

 

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/impedance-selector-switch-1

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/should-i-change-the-impedance-to-6-ohms-on-my-avr.3061864/

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/181902-denonmarantz-avr-impedance-setting-4-6-8-ohm/

https://www.hometheatershack.com/threads/speaker-impedance-setting-on-receivers.37466/

 

 

[sir sanders zingmore]

5 minutes ago, hopefullguy said:

do not change the selector to 4 ohms... leave it at 8 ohms.

 

just too many to list

 

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/impedance-selector-switch-1

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/should-i-change-the-impedance-to-6-ohms-on-my-avr.3061864/

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/181902-denonmarantz-avr-impedance-setting-4-6-8-ohm/

https://www.hometheatershack.com/threads/speaker-impedance-setting-on-receivers.37466/

 

 

 

Ok, I've learnt something 

. Seems like the answer is not as clear as I thought

[Monty]

52 minutes ago, April Snow said:

 

May I ask where it says 4 ohm is OK on the back of the amp? 

 

 

In the image you posted of the back of the amp, small text under the speaker terminals. A or B, ie one pair: minimum 4 ohms, A + B, ie two zones: minimum 8 ohms.

[RoHo]

43 minutes ago, April Snow said:

Thank you - I was not questioning you - just was not sure what to look at (thank you for explaining where to look)

I am a newbie so it is all new to me doing trying to crash course in a week 

 

I also found this in the Spec Sheet I downloaded yesterday going through my print outs I did yesterday

one can see why I am confused - it mentions the rated output for 8 and 6 but no mention of rated output for 4ohms.

So was not sure if I could run the 4ohm speakers or not.

 

 

With a perfect amplifier power output will double into a halved impedance.  So looking at the specs above if the amp was super-duper it would deliver 150 W into an 8 ohm load.  I think that this amp, like a lot of receivers, is a lot less than super-duper in the power supply and so won't get near to doubling power into 4 ohms.  Quoting this spec will broadcast this fact to the world at large.  So they leave it out.

It doesn't mean you can't use 4 ohm speakers, and Marantz apparently do allow this as explained above.  But you would expect that known low impedance speakers my just pull the power supply's pants down.  How embarrassing!  

[buddyev]

class d causes a lot of arguments, most of them not very helpful to people who want good sound without tears and hassles.   I would certainly consider one. The better ones  have plenty of power, are small and easy to fit into any rack, and they’re are excellent bang for the buck. 

I recently compared my longstanding Electra power amp with one of the newer Class D stereo amps. I had it in my system for about 2 weeks driving my B&W 805 d3. I typically have it on for 4-5 hours per day.
To be honest it was a toss up and I could have lived with either. There were certainly no major deficiencies. I liked what the class d did to the top end - it was a bit smoother - but in the end preferred the dynamics of the Elektra. 
 

Don’t discount a class d power amp to add to your Maranz. It might do exactly what you want. 

[April Snow]

Ok so I went to Video Pro where I brought this from & the same person I dealt with at the time of purchasing all my gear.

Sad place - audio stuff very light on due to the fact that electronics are so hard to get.

He said no Amps or audio on display at all, they don't even unbox them as they sell as soon as they get them.

 

Anyway we looked at the pages from the MarnatzNR1200 manual I took in...........

 

It does say on the "connecting speakers" page to use speakers with an impedance of 4-16 ohms - so he said the fact it says that it is obvious 4 ohms is able to be run on the Amp.

 

The Amp default settings are 8ohms.

 

He said the confusing part about "Zone 2" is merely how to access that part of the menu to change the setting from 8 ohm to 4 ohm - 

one set of speakers if they are 4 0hm has to be changed to 4 ohm

 

but if you run 2 sets of speakers (regardless of what ohm rating they are) it also has to be changed to 4ohm.

 

He suggested I give Marantz a call if in doubt.

 

He said he has never been asked this question before because in Australia most speakers are 6/8 ohms and he said that is why the Marantz specs show 6/8 and not 4 even though it can run 4........

 

I asked him about maybe connecting a powerful amp to this one to be the grunt but he had never heard of that and could not show me anything anyway, as all are high up on boxes on shelves and not allowed to be opened.

 

 

[April Snow]

2 hours ago, hopefullguy said:

do not change the selector to 4 ohms... leave it at 8 ohms.

 

just too many to list

 

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/impedance-selector-switch-1

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/should-i-change-the-impedance-to-6-ohms-on-my-avr.3061864/

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/181902-denonmarantz-avr-impedance-setting-4-6-8-ohm/

https://www.hometheatershack.com/threads/speaker-impedance-setting-on-receivers.37466/

 

 

OK now this has just confused me again.............

So am I to assume it is safe to leave the Amp set at 8 even though the speakers are 4?

And the reason for doing so is because to decrease to 4 would put more stress on the amp and cause it to maybe overheat?

 

But would it be bad for the speakers if they are 4 ohm and the amp is still on 8 ohm?

 

Now me thinks I need to think of a new amp again..........

 

[sir sanders zingmore]

24 minutes ago, April Snow said:

He said he has never been asked this question before because in Australia most speakers are 6/8 ohms

I’m sorry but that’s just nonsense, he’s just made that up!

[April Snow]

1 minute ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

I’m sorry but that’s just nonsense, he’s just made that up!

I thought that too - but I guess Video Pro only sell certain brands etc. 

[muon*]

After reading this thread I'm too confused to say anything about impedance

 

I will say, Sue...............is that I think you might love the change to the BG's........congrats

[April Snow]

8 minutes ago, muon* said:

After reading this thread I'm too confused to say anything about impedance

 

I will say, Sue...............is that I think you might love the change to the BG's........congrats

Thank you - encourages me that I am not alone in the "Impedance confusion" world - I am about to spin "You will never walk alone" based on that - hahahahahahaha

[sir sanders zingmore]

8 hours ago, April Snow said:

have also had it suggested I can buy another more powerful/suitable Amp that is JUST an amp and put it to the current one - so that way I can have the best of both worlds with power form the new one but able to use the current one for the features it is giving me as the current one has the facility to do that (shall attach pic of back panel of current amp).

I guess this is a pretty good option too. It gives you the opportunity to get an amp that you will be sure will do justice to your speakers.

 

Something like this would be a very good choice:

 

 

[andyr]

April/Sue (or whatever your name is!   ), there seems to be a number of different thoughts going on here - that have been left without full explanations.  So I thought I would add my 2 pesos worth, in the hope that it might provide you, grasshopper (and @muon*  ), with some enlightenment.  

1. It appears you have an AVR.  Undoubtedly, if you drive your mains with a good stereo amp (like the one Sad Bastard 3 referenced) ... your spkrs will sound better than when they are driven by your NR1200.
2. That being said, it seems your NR1200 can be set for driving 4 ohm spkrs.  So choose this setting for your new 4 ohm spkrs.  You may even find that your current B&W spkrs sound better with this setting!
3. Spkrs can be called (by their mfrs) '8 ohm' ... or '6 ohm'.  However, what is important is their impedance graph - ie. what the impedance is, at various frequencies.  In particular, whether impedance drops to 4 ohms ... or even lower.  (My Maggie ribbons are 2 ohms!   )
4. And only drive the one pair of spkrs at any one time - as the spkr load is reduced by trying to drive 2 pairs of spkrs at once.  (2 pairs of 8 ohm spkrs makes it a 4 ohm load for the amp; a pair of 8 ohm plus a pair of 6 ohm spkrs makes it a 3.4 ohm load.)
5. B&W '8 ohm' spkrs are famous for having impedances which drop well below 8 ohms - which makes them a difficult load for an amp to drive well.  Hence Russ (who owns that Elektra) found that his B&Ws sounded much better with the 250w Elektra ... than with his 40w tube amp.  He then found that they sounded even more better with the 500w Magtech that Zing brought over ... and he was then lucky enough to find someone who was selling one - so the Elektra is up for sale.  
6. Amps that are good for driving low-impedance spkrs typically have power outputs which 'double down' into half the impedance.  They are able to do this by having very good power supplies.  I believe the Elektra doubles down into 4 ohms ... and doubles down again into 2 ohms!  (So it has a very 'stiff' PS!)
7. If you compare 2 different 100w, say, power amps ... the one that is specced at 150w into 4 ohms - does not have as good a power supply as one that is specced at 180-200w into 4 ohms.  The 100w power amp which is specced at 150w into 4 ohms won't drive your current '8 ohm' B&Ws - or your new 4 ohm spkrs - as well as one specced at 200w into 4 ohms.
8. I notice the specs you provided of your NR1200 say: 75w into 8 ohms ... and 100w into 6 ohms.  This is good!    (6 ohms is 3/4 of 8 ohms and the power produced at 6 ohms is 4/3 x 75w = 100w!)  If they had provided the power output at 4 ohms - you would then be able to judge how good its power supply is (if it produced 150w into 4 ohms - this would be excellent!)

Good luck,

Andy

 

 

[betty boop]

7 hours ago, hopefullguy said:

do not change the selector to 4 ohms... leave it at 8 ohms.

 

just too many to list

 

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/impedance-selector-switch-1

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/should-i-change-the-impedance-to-6-ohms-on-my-avr.3061864/

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/181902-denonmarantz-avr-impedance-setting-4-6-8-ohm/

https://www.hometheatershack.com/threads/speaker-impedance-setting-on-receivers.37466/

 

 

April this was advice I was given years and years ago buying a puny nad integrated amp... (about 25wpc) and driving some B&W 602s2...

 

if you want a better amp, plenty of options  re the new speakers in the vienna acoustics... you will need a new integrated amp of quality at minimum to drive those the marantz AVR will not really do them justice ... though suspect knew that  

[April Snow]

25 minutes ago, andyr said:

April/Sue (or whatever your name is!   ), there seems to be a number of different thoughts going on here - that have been left without full explanations.  So I thought I would add my 2 pesos worth, in the hope that it might provide you, grasshopper (and @muon*  ), with some enlightenment.  

1. It appears you have an AVR.  Undoubtedly, if you drive your mains with a good stereo amp (like the one Sad Bastard 3 referenced) ... your spkrs will sound better than when they are driven by your NR1200.
2. That being said, it seems your NR1200 can be set for driving 4 ohm spkrs.  So choose this setting for your new 4 ohm spkrs.  You may even find that your current B&W spkrs sound better with this setting!
3. Spkrs can be called (by their mfrs) '8 ohm' ... or '6 ohm'.  However, what is important is their impedance graph - ie. what the impedance is, at various frequencies.  In particular, whether impedance drops to 4 ohms ... or even lower.  (My Maggie ribbons are 2 ohms!   )
4. And only drive the one pair of spkrs at any one time - as the spkr load is reduced by trying to drive 2 pairs of spkrs at once.  (2 pairs of 8 ohm spkrs makes it a 4 ohm load for the amp; a pair of 8 ohm plus a pair of 6 ohm spkrs makes it a 3.4 ohm load.)
5. B&W '8 ohm' spkrs are famous for having impedances which drop well below 8 ohms - which makes them a difficult load for an amp to drive well.  Hence Russ (who owns that Elektra) found that his B&Ws sounded much better with the 250w Elektra ... than with his 40w tube amp.  He then found that they sounded even more better with the 500w Magtech that Zing brought over ... and he was then lucky enough to find someone who was selling one - so the Elektra is up for sale.  
6. Amps that are good for driving low-impedance spkrs typically have power outputs which 'double down' into half the impedance.  They are able to do this by having very good power supplies.  I believe the Elektra doubles down into 4 ohms ... and doubles down again into 2 ohms!  (So it has a very 'stiff' PS!)
7. If you compare 2 different 100w, say, power amps ... the one that is specced at 150w into 4 ohms - does not have as good a power supply as one that is specced at 180-200w into 4 ohms.  The 100w power amp which is specced at 150w into 4 ohms won't drive your current '8 ohm' B&Ws - or your new 4 ohm spkrs - as well as one specced at 200w into 4 ohms.
8. I notice the specs you provided of your NR1200 say: 75w into 8 ohms ... and 100w into 6 ohms.  This is good!    (6 ohms is 3/4 of 8 ohms and the power produced at 6 ohms is 4/3 x 75w = 100w!)  If they had provided the power output at 4 ohms - you would then be able to judge how good its power supply is (if it produced 150w into 4 ohms - this would be excellent!)

Good luck,

Andy

 

 

Thank you Andy, I shall mull this info over - seems people are divided between setting the amp as the Marantz manual suggests to 4ohm and not changing it from 8ohm that it is currently on.

 

I was encouraged to buy the Electra but did not have the room for it in my cabinet - but welcome other suggestions

I am looking for something with similar dimensions to the current amp - height of that is 10.5cm which allows for cooling room within the cabinet. 

 

What you say about B&Ws it was shown to me last week they do indeed dip down to 4ohm quite a bit if I remember rightly.