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Hi all, Just wondering if anyone in Vic has a record flattening machine. I have a 1st pressing of Highway to Hell that is VG++  Sleeve and the record would be near mint other than an edge warp which makes track 1 on both sides unplayable. If I start from the second track in it plays absolutely perfect with no background noise at all. Would love to be able to get most of the warp out if possible. I have tried in the past by putting heavy weights on it but no joy I'm afraid. Happy to pay for the service, thanks in advance.

Highway to Hell warp.pdf

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Matt - guys at Dutch Vinyl and Goldmine Records both have flattening machines.

I get mine done at Goldmine - great job and reasonable costs.

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For NSW people, Hat Hill Records in Blackheath has the machine to do this and charges $10 for every successful flattening. Good stock of vinyl there too, I walked out with two flat and two new LPs.

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On 31/01/2021 at 5:44 PM, candyflip said:

Matt - guys at Dutch Vinyl and Goldmine Records both have flattening machines.

I get mine done at Goldmine - great job and reasonable costs.

Plus one for Dutch Vinyl Melbourne.  They did a great job of flattening one new record that I had that was warped in transit.

 

the only thing I would say unless the vinyl is new, valuable or treasured I wouldn’t want to pay to get it flattened.  
 

they also have a store in a Brisbane but not sure they have a device there

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A question regarding the results. Does it impact on the sound quality or playability once flattened. I have heard mixed reports that it damages the grooves. I'd be happy just to get it flat enough to play the first track on each side as it plays beautifully if I cue to the second track which is essentially past the warp. It's a blue label Highway to Hell and by all accounts is worth a few bucks. Also if anyone knows of someone on the Mornington Peninsula side of town that would be a bonus. Long way to the other side.😁

Thanks Matt.

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The results are variable and it depends on the warp, the length of the process to get it flat etc.

 

I once flattened a VERY warped Meat Loaf lp (yes, I hear the jokes about 'why did you bother'!) and it sounds pretty damn good considering how damaged those groove walls must be.

 

https://youtu.be/CyQOkZxjU0A

 

I think on balance is it simply a better proposition to have it done, rather than not done.

Especially if it is worth decent bucks to you...

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41 minutes ago, Sceeta said:

A question regarding the results. Does it impact on the sound quality or playability once flattened. I have heard mixed reports that it damages the grooves. I'd be happy just to get it flat enough to play the first track on each side as it plays beautifully if I cue to the second track which is essentially past the warp. It's a blue label Highway to Hell and by all accounts is worth a few bucks. Also if anyone knows of someone on the Mornington Peninsula side of town that would be a bonus. Long way to the other side.😁

Thanks Matt.

In my case it was a Bluenote Tone Poet Series (quality Jazz reissue recordings) and i cannot hear any degradation in sound quality when compared to other LP's in the series.

 

The sound quality after flattening could be depend on how it was warped; simply warped with age due and storage, was it in transit, or maybe warped in during manufacture process (heavy vinyl cooling unevenly)

 

I believe the device they used at Dutch Vinyl may be this AFI FLAT Record Flattener v2.0, but I haven't been close enough to confirm (it looks like this one from a few metres away)

 

 

 

AFI FLAT Record Flattener for warped or bent records

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Sceeta said:

A question regarding the results. Does it impact on the sound quality or playability once flattened. I have heard mixed reports that it damages the grooves. I'd be happy just to get it flat enough to play the first track on each side as it plays beautifully if I cue to the second track which is essentially past the warp. It's a blue label Highway to Hell and by all accounts is worth a few bucks. Also if anyone knows of someone on the Mornington Peninsula side of town that would be a bonus. Long way to the other side.😁

Thanks Matt.

As someone who offers flattening as a service (in addition to cleaning) let me add my 2 cents...

 

If the record grooves have been subject to excessive heat and are damaged, no amount of flattening will fix that. 
Generally when offering to de-warp a record I will INSIST on cleaning the record thoroughly (a two-step process in my case). I can’t see the point of heating up a record that is either not clean or still covered in things like a mould release compound.

Once record has been “flattened” I will do another two step clean (excessive but keeps my OCD at bay).

 

I can confidently say that the sonic quality is preserved.

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1 hour ago, Sceeta said:

A question regarding the results. Does it impact on the sound quality or playability once flattened. I have heard mixed reports that it damages the grooves. I'd be happy just to get it flat enough to play the first track on each side as it plays beautifully if I cue to the second track which is essentially past the warp. It's a blue label Highway to Hell and by all accounts is worth a few bucks. Also if anyone knows of someone on the Mornington Peninsula side of town that would be a bonus. Long way to the other side.😁

Thanks Matt.

 

I have owned an Orb DF-02 record flattener for 12.5 years and the results are not variable - they are consistently excellent. 

  

  Out of probably close to 1000 albums I have flattened,  only 2 were not able to be saved - this because the warp was so bad the grooves were deformed.   Flattening will not fix groove deformation or a noisy pressing.

 

  Professional record flatteners like the Orb do not damage the record whatsoever. Orb also manufacture the Air Tight and Furutech units.

 

 The sonics are the same or better as the record is no longer like a roller coaster for the tonearm and stylus.

 

 I am lucky I no longer have to worry about warped or dished lp's. I use it more now than ever as 180gm vinyl is invariably dished to some degree. 

  Like Hydrology, I clean all records first.

 

My Orb record flattener is easily my best investment in hifi.

Edited by metal beat
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2 minutes ago, Sceeta said:

How long does the process take? Is it a while you wait or drop off and pick up?

 

You would need to drop it off - between 1.5 and 2.5 hours to flatten and from memory another I think 2 to 2.5 hours to cool down 

Edited by metal beat
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3 minutes ago, Sceeta said:

Ah, OK I might have to post it to them. Thanks for the heads up.

 

Pity u r in Vic.   I would have done them 4 nicks.

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Cheers mate. I'll get it sorted one way or another. I was given this record about 34 years ago by my sisters ex boyfriend at the time and it was warped then from him leaving it in a car. He bought it new so it has seen very little play time and is near mint other than the warp so it would be nice to get it 100% playable. If I do I'll post it on the vinyl now playing page. 🤘

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Google warp / heat damage. You sill see some examples of groove deformation versus just a storing issue. Under bright light you can tell whether worth saving by looking at how the light reflects off the surface.

 

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  • 1 month later...

Just a little life pro tip - using two pizza stones in the oven to flatten vinyl doesn't work.  Might have been something to do with the 200 degrees I set it to 😱

 

Edit:  it's super flat!  No more warps.

 

20210330_122446.jpg

Edited by Old Man Rubber
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21 minutes ago, Old Man Rubber said:

Just a little life pro tip - using two pizza stones in the oven to flatten vinyl doesn't work.  Might have been something to do with the 200 degrees I set it to 😱

 

Edit:  it's super flat!  No more warps.

 

 

Just pop some cheese and anchovies on top and see if that helps? (sorry could not resist)

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29 minutes ago, Old Man Rubber said:

Just a little life pro tip - using two pizza stones in the oven to flatten vinyl doesn't work.  Might have been something to do with the 200 degrees I set it to 😱

 

Edit:  it's super flat!  No more warps.

 

20210330_122446.jpg

 

According to vinyl flat, he recommends 54 degrees Celsius to flatten vinyl.

 

  200 degrees is really good for pizza.

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Sheesh that Liquorice Pizza Pic above brought back my nightmare venture in that Vinyl Flat Thingy--

DON"T risk anything other than your K-Tels or Party Starters Vol54.

That device stuffed up couple of my Favs --following the advice enclosed to the letter

Couldn't even get hardly any $$'s when I tried to flog it off--Joey Pouch and all!

 

That things a wrecker-Meh:ph34r:

Willco

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25 minutes ago, Willco said:

Sheesh that Liquorice Pizza Pic above brought back my nightmare venture in that Vinyl Flat Thingy--

DON"T risk anything other than your K-Tels or Party Starters Vol54.

That device stuffed up couple of my Favs --following the advice enclosed to the letter

Couldn't even get hardly any $$'s when I tried to flog it off--Joey Pouch and all!

 

That things a wrecker-Meh:ph34r:

Willco

 

I would like to say that using Pizza stones probably wasn't very sensible but I couldn't really see much difference between those and the Vinyl Flat - in fact I'd wager a couple of engineered pizza stones are verifiably flatter than the metal plates.

 

however - I just can't recommend oven heat as an approach.  I think you could easy get 50 degrees with two pieces of glass and a hot day on the patio without risking the above.  In my defense I am an impatient idiot and figured if a little heat is good, lots of heat would be MOAR GOOD AND FASTER. 

 

I have flattened a couple of records before by just leaving them underneath a massive pile of other records.  If you have 6 months or so it works quite well 🤪

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38 minutes ago, Old Man Rubber said:

 

I would like to say that using Pizza stones probably wasn't very sensible but I couldn't really see much difference between those and the Vinyl Flat - in fact I'd wager a couple of engineered pizza stones are verifiably flatter than the metal plates.

 

 

I read (long ago) that 2 sheets of 1/4" toughened glass was the go.  :)

 

38 minutes ago, Old Man Rubber said:

 

however - I just can't recommend oven heat as an approach.  I think you could easy get 50 degrees with two pieces of glass and a hot day on the patio without risking the above.

 

 

Oven heat is constant; I would suggest the old "vinyl between 2 sheets of glass in the sun on a hot day" trick would get to >50 degrees.

 

Andy

 

 

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On 05/02/2021 at 6:39 PM, metal beat said:

 

I have owned an Orb DF-02 record flattener for 12.5 years and the results are not variable - they are consistently excellent. 

  

  Out of probably close to 1000 albums I have flattened,  only 2 were not able to be saved - this because the warp was so bad the grooves were deformed.   Flattening will not fix groove deformation or a noisy pressing.

 

  Professional record flatteners like the Orb do not damage the record whatsoever. Orb also manufacture the Air Tight and Furutech units.

 

 The sonics are the same or better as the record is no longer like a roller coaster for the tonearm and stylus.

 

 I am lucky I no longer have to worry about warped or dished lp's. I use it more now than ever as 180gm vinyl is invariably dished to some degree. 

  Like Hydrology, I clean all records first.

 

My Orb record flattener is easily my best investment in hifi.

OMG. I didn't realise such things existed! Just thinking of some of the LPs I passed up in years gone by as they were simply not flat enough for my liking.

 

To use an Apple-ism - iSad!

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i borrowed Keith's Vinyl Flat 3 years ago and have used it to great effect.  A couple of casualties, of course, but overall have saved a bit of $$ by simply using the Flat.

 

54 degress for 45 mins is my usual approach.  Sometimes a second round.  I tend to leave it in the flat after heating for a day so that it (the album) gets cold under constraint (record still in the vinyl flat) 

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22 minutes ago, scuzzii said:

 

54 degress for 45 mins is my usual approach.  Sometimes a second round.  I tend to leave it in the flat after heating for a day so that it (the album) gets cold under constraint (record still in the vinyl flat) 

 

 

Yes ... absolutely, cooling under the same pressure is the way to go.  :thumb:

 

Andy

 

Edited by andyr
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2 hours ago, Old Man Rubber said:

however - I just can't recommend oven heat as an approach.  I think you could easy get 50 degrees with two pieces of glass and a hot day on the patio without risking the above.  In my defense I am an impatient idiot and figured if a little heat is good, lots of heat would be MOAR GOOD AND FASTER. 

Tried this in Brisbane and I am imagining it got a lot hotter than 50% as the record ended up oval !!! 🙂  

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Here’s a thought, maybe a touch on the mad scientist side, has anyone vacuum sealed a record in a food vacbag and heated it with a sous vide immersion circulator to 54C - then popped it under something heavy and flat to set?

 

This would in theory keep temperature pretty precise and safe, and the vacbag will protect the grooves.

 

But like I say, might be bit mad scientist.

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10 hours ago, RocketFishPI said:

Here’s a thought, maybe a touch on the mad scientist side, has anyone vacuum sealed a record in a food vacbag and heated it with a sous vide immersion circulator to 54C - then popped it under something heavy and flat to set?

 

This would in theory keep temperature pretty precise and safe, and the vacbag will protect the grooves.

 

But like I say, might be bit mad scientist.

I think you'd find that it needs to be pressed while at the 54 degrees (for a couple of hours) rather than just being pressed flat after it had reached the correct temperature.

 

But I like your thinking. Except, I don't think any of my vac bags are wide enough - nor my sealer. If it wasn't for the label, I'd say "why bother with the bag at all?"

 

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6 hours ago, Cloth Ears said:

I think you'd find that it needs to be pressed while at the 54 degrees (for a couple of hours) rather than just being pressed flat after it had reached the correct temperature.

 

But I like your thinking. Except, I don't think any of my vac bags are wide enough - nor my sealer. If it wasn't for the label, I'd say "why bother with the bag at all?"

 

Damn practicality always getting in the way of progress.

 

Maybe sit the LP underneath a flat bottomed water tank and turn on the circulator for a few hours?

 

I don't know why, but I seem committed to getting out from underneath the boot of "big vinyl-flattening".

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