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Hi Guys,

 

Needed some advice, I have experienced / been told conflicting information in the buying / selling of items. I just wanted to clarify and understand how it works.

 

I have had a couple of purchases fall through after being told i am the winning buyer / person the seller is going to sell to. We have exchanged information like phone no.s , addresses, bank details etc. Also were going through what dates and times suits both people if it was a pickup. At which point another person who had been already told the item is spoken for, has now made an offer above what the advertised offer was / asking price was. And then i was told after all this that i have lost the sale. 

 

I know the seller has the right to sell to whomever and not first come first serve, but i have also been told on the forums in the past, that people arent allowed to bid / make offers above the asking price as its not an auction. And that once the sale is going through and information has been exchanged then its considered pending. What is the rules there generally? I always thought once details are being exchanged it becomes a tricky situation if people can still make offers above the asking price. 

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Sorry to hear what happened, but the seller has the final say. Whether it is ethical, good manners to change their mind is up for debate. At least no money change hands.

 

We rely on the goodwill of members here and most trades are done in the right spirit. It does not excuse the poor behaviour of a few....

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Ok thanks  @Snoopy8,

 

And are there any rules of things like private information being shared etc. Basically i am trying to understand if there is a set guideline or rule at which point the sale is considered pending or is it always up to the seller? I understand the seller has the right to sell to whomever but for me i find it a bit disappointing if i have already shared private information and i hadnt realised we are allowed to bid above the asking price otherwise i would have counter offered the other person who had resorted to bid above the advertised price after he found out the seller was selling me the item. 

 

My house got robbed a couple of years ago, ever since then i am always a bit worried about sharing private information so generally only want to do it if i have to / aka the sale is actually happening. But thats my own worry and something to work through. 

Edited by lonewolf
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Selling to another buyer after agreeing on a sale is about as low as it gets in my opinion, especially if the original deal was at the asking price. This isn't Gumtree - we should be behaving like civilized people...

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The only "fixed" rule is seller has final say. Rest are guidelines and good manners. 

 

I prefer to buy from longer standing members where I can get snippets of their demeanor,  manners etc.  They are also likely to behave ethically.

 

Take this as a lesson learnt, with a loss of privacy, no money lost, and some anger that needs to be dissipated. But, if you have a continued concern, best to contact a moderator (report your own post!). 

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9 minutes ago, d3ft said:

Selling to another buyer after agreeing on a sale is about as low as it gets in my opinion, especially if the original deal was at the asking price. This isn't Gumtree - we should be behaving like civilized people...

Agreed, It's very poor form by such a seller IMO.

 

Edit: I'd add that It's IMO also poor form by the secondary buyer that offered an inflated price above the asking one, a very sly move.

Edited by muon*
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14 minutes ago, muon* said:

Agreed, It's very poor form by such a seller IMO.

 

Edit: I'd add that It's IMO also poor form by the secondary buyer that offered an inflated price above the asking one, a very sly move.

I have had zero problems up until recently, everyone I've dealt with have been fantastic. 

But last few attempts at transactions have been soured by being strung along , when I thought I had first dibs after twice repeating I wanted an item - then suddenly another buyer has appeared that they've sold to.

20 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

The only "fixed" rule is seller has final say. Rest are guidelines and good manners. 

 

I prefer to buy from longer standing members where I can get snippets of their demeanor,  manners etc.  They are also likely to behave ethically.

 

Take this as a lesson learnt, with a loss of privacy, no money lost, and some anger that needs to be dissipated. But, if you have a continued concern, best to contact a moderator (report your own post!). 

I think this is a large part of the problem,  many more newer members perhaps not behaving how we'd like- and possibly tempting some to bend the rules (in fairness).

 

I will always treat anyone dealing with me, how I would hope to be treated - and believe MOST on here would be the same. 

Perhaps I'm naive nowadays however.  ?

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I concur that it is poor form by both seller and "back-door" buyer to reneg on the original agreement to sell.

 

As both a buyer and seller on this forum i have not yet had a bad experience.  I will add that i always check out the reputation of the buyer/seller i am dealing with and the exchange of money seals the deal.  My willingness to transfer money is mostly governed by the reputation of the seller.

 

In my view a deal is not sealed until the money has been recieved by the seller.

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16 minutes ago, evil c said:

 

I will always treat anyone dealing with me, how I would hope to be treated - and believe MOST on here would be the same. 

Perhaps I'm naive nowadays however. 

 

This is the key to any honourable dealings on SNA or life-in-general and it always works for me. If everybody adopted this standard of behaviour, we would see very few (if any )  situations such as the OP is facing. There are no angels here, (myself included) but common decency is surely a standard we can all adopt as default behaviour.

Like @evil c, says, it may seem naive but I don't think it is.

Edited by rantan
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If this kind of thing happened to me twice on here I'd be reluctant to use the classifieds again, I'd be hesitant after the first time....I'd defiantly avoid dealing with the seller in question again.

Edited by muon*
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It's happened to me as well. A price was agreed to by the seller but he ended up selling the item to someone else who ended up flipping the item.

 

I have also listed a few items that I have refused to sell to some members who are flippers.

 

For some items I sell I want them to go to those who are in the hobby.. not to be resold by flippers. 

 

 

 

Edited by Eggmeister
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21 minutes ago, Eggmeister said:

It's happened to me as well. A price was agreed to by the seller but he ended up selling the item to someone else who ended up flipping the item.

 

I have also listed a few items that I have refused to sell to some members who are flippers.

 

For some items I sell I want them to go to those who are in the hobby.. not to be resold by flippers. 

 

 

 

We should almost have a list of know flippers.  I know it’s their right to do whatever with the purchase, but I’m like you.  Would rather someone who enjoys the hobby to have it 

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3 hours ago, lonewolf said:

but i have also been told on the forums in the past, that people arent allowed to bid / make offers above the asking price as its not an auction.

This was my understanding too. But looking at the classifieds guidelines, I see no mention of it. I'm sure it used to say that auctions were not allowed, but I don't see it now 

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38 minutes ago, Bill125812 said:

We should almost have a list of know flippers.  I know it’s their right to do whatever with the purchase, but I’m like you.  Would rather someone who enjoys the hobby to have it 

Could that be done by leaving a comment in their feedback?  Something like “known flipper” or “suspected flipper, avoid!”?

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So when you put your item up for sale you get the choice to allow known flippers to purchase, known ones listed on the menu below and you add a flippers tax to the purchase price.

All those LP's your selling; 50 bucks to plain members and 65 bucks for the flippers. A kind of 'Flippers Tax' and SNA takes their share as well

Or.

Those speakers you've sold for $900, when they pop up again in Classifieds and they're now $1350...Boom!!!!!

The official Flippers Moderator jumps in and....Flippers tax please(amount yet to be worked out).

 

Lots of options to be discussed and ironed out.

 

Excess ad Tax. For people like Lord Eggstrom who are always flogging kit

 

Lets call it an aggravation surcharge; Geez not another bloody ad from Eggy.

 

Upside-down-sideways pic tax; If your at fault you pay the tax, if SNA code is at fault then Marc owes you a salami(he makes em each year)

 

I'll put myself forward as SNA Tax innovator  and of cause I'd never take a bribe below 6.5% alc if beer and Durifs of most vintages will probably get you an exemption.

Bent? As a two bob watch.?

 

 

 

#Flippers List

Luc(I made a swift 100 bucks once on a deal)?

(Put your names down you flippers..c'mon, fairs fair)

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7 minutes ago, metal beat said:

Flippers  -  scum of SNA.

 

Name and shame them ?

 

 

Negative flippers are ok ?

 

 

Edited by Eggmeister
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1 hour ago, Stereophilus said:

Could that be done by leaving a comment in their feedback?  Something like “known flipper” or “suspected flipper, avoid!”?

Pity we can’t add an image in feedback ?

DECC3F99-0F1E-48A0-AAC8-C12A2DC2D33A.jpeg

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39 minutes ago, Eggmeister said:

 

 

Negative flippers are ok ?

 

 

I think I’m a negative flipper ??‍♂️

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I'm yet to confirm it, but i am 99% sure of at least one member in Sydney that has two usernames, and both of them flip items. 

if they are not the same person, their MO and furnishings are remarkably similar for two different people in the same suburb....

I'm guessing that this is something that is a little bit more common than it should be

Edited by ethro
forgot a word
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I used to be very particular about selling to the first person putting their hand up. I though this was the fairest thing to do. I have changed my attitude in recent times, especially with the influx of so many new members and obvious flipping. If i have multiple messages on an item, i will always prioritise the known/long standing member first. One that contributes to the forum and community. 

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Sorry to hear of this behaviour. I have been an SNA member for about 3 years now and have never bought or sold any items yet. As said above, this is NOT gummytree people. Flippers should be flogged, Stampeded upon by large mob of Angus, then flogged again. Just a  suggestion. 

 

I have passed along gear for free to enthusiasts  gear that I received for free or cheap, that just needed a power cord, or just a complete re cap etc. (Big VU meters-- so sweet!).  Also when I have sold vehicles and the first phone call is at 6 am obviously from a dealer who lowballs a very well priced car without even seeing it, I tell him to show up in person for a test drive and bring the money or forget it. Done.

 

For me the Spirit of SNA is what makes this site so attractive, instructive, and enjoyable - as all of us are into music and gear and ? beverages. You know what I mean. Let us somehow keep it that way. 

 

 

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I've been let down in the past with items where I had agreed to buy at the asking price and requested payment details, only to later find out the seller went and sold the item to someone else for whatever reason - i.e. eBay listings or someone local showed up after the fact - this including from long established members. 

 

Nowadays I've learned to manage my own expectations and try not get my hopes up too much to avoid getting frustrated. It still sucks when it happens though. 

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1 hour ago, ethro said:

I'm yet to confirm it, but i am 99% sure of at least one member in Sydney that has two usernames, and both of them flip items. 

 

 

I doubt that, else they are going to great extremes to not be detected. As many members will attest, I am across this and have more than one system in place to detect it. I have asked many members (almost daily cases) to explain why they appear to have more than one account. 9 times out of 10, it's innocent, with a mate visiting another member's residence. But, those that do not respond, have their membership suspended. Then 3 months later when they sign in another new account, it is also detected (and suspended).

 

This topic is not about "flipping", and it has been discussed at length more times than I care to remember. Let's move on from that please.

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1 minute ago, Marc said:

 

I doubt that, else they are going to great extremes to not be detected. As many members will attest, I am across this and have more than one system in place to detect it. I have asked many members (almost daily cases) to explain why they appear to have more than one account. 9 times out of 10, it's innocent, with a mate visiting another member's residence. But, those that do not respond, have their membership suspended. Then 3 months later when they sign in another new account, it is also detected (and suspended).

Hi @Marc, I am happy to be wrong ?

Can pass on the details via PM if you want them, otherwise i'll just leave it alone.

 

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Absolutely more than happy to look into any intel you have. Often we are tipped off by other members. 
Anything that keeps this place honest, I am all for.

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On 31/01/2021 at 3:10 PM, lonewolf said:

Hi Guys,

 

Needed some advice, I have experienced / been told conflicting information in the buying / selling of items. I just wanted to clarify and understand how it works.

 

I have had a couple of purchases fall through after being told i am the winning buyer / person the seller is going to sell to. We have exchanged information like phone no.s , addresses, bank details etc. Also were going through what dates and times suits both people if it was a pickup. At which point another person who had been already told the item is spoken for, has now made an offer above what the advertised offer was / asking price was. And then i was told after all this that i have lost the sale. 

 

I know the seller has the right to sell to whomever and not first come first serve, but i have also been told on the forums in the past, that people arent allowed to bid / make offers above the asking price as its not an auction. And that once the sale is going through and information has been exchanged then its considered pending. What is the rules there generally? I always thought once details are being exchanged it becomes a tricky situation if people can still make offers above the asking price. 

 

Hi @lonewolf  I totally understand your frustration. All of my trading experience in the forum are extremely positive (even become audiophile buddies with a few local members) except for one which is more ridiculous than yours: After sealing the deal by fund transfer through PayPal (family and friends) and waited for the item to arrive, the seller REFUNDED me, simply saying he had changed his mind (tho he changed the item status to sold rather than withdrawn)...Since he wouldn't respond me in the forum, I called and asked him if he'd sold it to someone else for a higher offer. He said he was busy and would call me back, which, of course, not to my surprise, never happened.

 

The lesson here is, even after the fund transfer, the seller can still change his mind. It seems that apart from hoping for the good willingness and behaviour of the seller, there's not much we can do...

Edited by mjledme
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13 minutes ago, mjledme said:

The lesson is here, even after the fund transfer, the seller can still change his mind. It seems that apart from hoping for the good willingness and behaviour of the seller, there's not much we can do...

 

While it is my policy I put in place that the seller chooses who to sell to ... I am totally against what you have outlined above. I hope you gave negative feedback to the seller accordingly.

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15 minutes ago, Marc said:

 

While it is my policy I put in place that the seller chooses who to sell to ... I am totally against what you have outlined above. I hope you gave negative feedback to the seller accordingly.

 

Thank you Marc for your suggestion. No I didn't leave a negative feedback coz I always left positive feedbacks and thought this may just be an unlucky exception...Next time I will (hope there won't be a next time lol)

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3 hours ago, mjledme said:

The lesson here is, even after the fund transfer, the seller can still change his mind. It seems that apart from hoping for the good willingness and behaviour of the seller, there's not much we can do...

 

True except for that legal mumbo jumbo of offer and acceptance. They offered, you paid = a contract. Reality is it's just too much to be bothered with.

 

Why not a simple rule then if you purchased an item here, you need to say that and how much you bought it for. It could be a Y/N question after asking price on the required info. If someone says No and they did - burn them at the stake!

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14 minutes ago, rodders3 said:

Why not a simple rule then if you purchased an item here, you need to say that and how much you bought it for. It could be a Y/N question after asking price on the required info. If someone says No and they did - burn them at the stake!

 

This topic of "flipping" is not being discussed here.  One more time - "This topic is not about "flipping", and it has been discussed at length more times than I care to remember. Let's move on from that please.".

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There is always going to be shady people in every community.

I have always found SNA people to be really nice and supportive.

 

In the end the seller has the final say.

But yeah there's a feedback system, and if you don't use it.

Then there will be someone else that will get annoyed by the same person next time.

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  • 2 weeks later...

This is interesting, whilst most members are very honest and are an asset to this forum, I see comments in this thread from members making assumptions about who they deem to be ‘flippers’

I was refused a sale I suspect based on this with no reason...

I was told the item was mine and then renege and sell to another.

Poor form from a reputable member

My 02

 

 

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The usual caveats apply - buy from people you get to know and trust. People with decent multiple feedback and who've posted. Use Paypal and only "friends" when you know someone. If it's too good to be true....then it is. Look closely at the photos...are they from an Australian household or "stock' or "eBay"? Google has a good reverse image capability. Know your product and what it's worth. Cross your fingers !

I've been so blessed to become part of this forum and have met (personally) some of the most knowledgeable and decent, passionate people going. We have a shared interest (hobby) and I learn something new all the time. We've had two HeadFi Canjams thanks to SNA membership. Now I have bought and sold more gear than I care to think about on the journey. A lot of it on here. Some of it has gone to good homes, some to flippers and some I've seen on Fleabay and Scumtree within days. It is what it is. I do feel that some of those "flippers" and resellers have realised that SNA has some really good, well looked after gear and are working the system. Take a near new Focal Utopia that was bought on sale at 3K from an AUS distributor. Sold on SNA (and advertised as such) for a bit less, say 2.8K. Turns up on Flea or Scum for the "going" rate of 4K. Who's the fool? The seller, who wanted it to go to an enthusiast or the buyer who saw an opportunity? With C-19, especially, there's a lot of people looking to make whatever money they can. The flip side is that there are only so many people who will pay thousands for used headphone amplifiers and they are more likely to be on SNA than anywhere else.

Donate and keep SNA alive. We'll police ourselves through feedback and being good citizens.

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