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Slight Cart accident - Should I use or will it damage records?


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Hi Vinyl Experts,

 

So I managed to knock the cantilever on my Rega Ania (*!@%$# clumsy idiot) and now it is slightly off centre, ie pointing just a little (about 1-1.5mm) toward left looking straight on. Its only slight but I'm worried the tip will no longer be completely straight in the groove and could potentially damage records. What do you guys think? Is it a risk to use it?

 

Cheers

Ania-Bent-.jpg.192a095fd8ebc3a281636bc6c332088f.jpg
Crappy iPhone pic but you get the idea...

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57 minutes ago, John0001 said:

Hi Vinyl Experts,

 

So I managed to knock the cantilever on my Rega Ania (*!@%$# clumsy idiot) and now it is slightly off centre, ie pointing just a little (about 1-1.5mm) toward left looking straight on. Its only slight but I'm worried the tip will no longer be completely straight in the groove and could potentially damage records. What do you guys think? Is it a risk to use it?

 

Cheers

Ania-Bent-.jpg.192a095fd8ebc3a281636bc6c332088f.jpg

 

Crappy iPhone pic but you get the idea...

 

 

Not good, John - but did you actually knock it ... or have you merely been using excessive anti-skate?

 

Don't think it will actually damage the grooves - but it won't sound its best.  :(

 

Not sure who can actually repair a fault like this?  @cafe latte?

 

Andy

 

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Reasonably sure I knocked it Andy, I stupidly didn't have the little guard over it. I have the antiskate set up as per Rega spec so the slider is at about 1.9, same as the tracking force. I guess it could be out of whack but I definitely brushed against it so think that is the culprit.

J

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6 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

Not good, John - but did you actually knock it ... or have you merely been using excessive anti-skate?

 

Don't think it will actually damage the grooves - but it won't sound its best.  :(

 

Not sure who can actually repair a fault like this?  @cafe latte?

 

Andy

 

I can PM.

Chris

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11 hours ago, John0001 said:

Hi Vinyl Experts,

 

So I managed to knock the cantilever on my Rega Ania (*!@%$# clumsy idiot) and now it is slightly off centre, ie pointing just a little (about 1-1.5mm) toward left looking straight on. Its only slight but I'm worried the tip will no longer be completely straight in the groove and could potentially damage records. What do you guys think? Is it a risk to use it?

 

Cheers

Ania-Bent-.jpg.192a095fd8ebc3a281636bc6c332088f.jpg
Crappy iPhone pic but you get the idea...


Hello John, does the cantilever return to straight when playing or when you align on your protractor? As Andy says, it looks like there has been too much bias applied over some time. You could try and re align correctly and see how that sounds, otherwise replacement or rebuild should be considered, as it will not be sounding the best as it is currently.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

Edited by cheekyboy
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Hi Keith, No the cantilever stays pointing slightly off to the left when playing. Being the Rega three point mount it should be unmoved from the factory set up alignment (modified Stevenson). I've tried moving the anti-skate lower, down to as little as 1.0, and it doesn't seem to have any effect. It was setup exactly as per Rega instruction where tracking force (1.75-2 grams) = Anti skate force (slider set to the same number as tracking force).
 

Cheers

John

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27 minutes ago, John0001 said:

Hi Keith, No the cantilever stays pointing slightly off to the left when playing. Being the Rega three point mount it should be unmoved from the factory set up alignment (modified Stevenson). I've tried moving the anti-skate lower, down to as little as 1.0, and it doesn't seem to have any effect. It was setup exactly as per Rega instruction where tracking force (1.75-2 grams) = Anti skate force (slider set to the same number as tracking force).
 

Cheers

John

 

Why don't you PM cafe latte?

 

Andy

 

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25 minutes ago, John0001 said:

Hi Keith, No the cantilever stays pointing slightly off to the left when playing. Being the Rega three point mount it should be unmoved from the factory set up alignment (modified Stevenson). I've tried moving the anti-skate lower, down to as little as 1.0, and it doesn't seem to have any effect. It was setup exactly as per Rega instruction where tracking force (1.75-2 grams) = Anti skate force (slider set to the same number as tracking force).
 

Cheers

John

 

Hello John, the bias/anti skate setting is not an exact science and if you're getting no distortion with the lower bias setting, all the better to be honest.

 

If the Rega three point mounting doesn't allow you to move the cartridge in the headshell, it will be difficult for you to align the cantilever in its current position. It may be repairable if you can find a good repairer, or look at replacement/rebuild.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

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Thanks Keith. I've contacted Chris (cafe latte) to get an idea of fixing it. If that isn't a goer because of the cart/damage I guess I'll be looking for a new cart.

 

Thanks for all the replies, appreciated.

 

John

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It is interesting to me that many suspect anti-skate for problems like this.    As a stick-in-the-mud  MM cart user,  I have NEVER seen a cantilever stay bent as a result of wrong anti-skate.  Even on systems where anti-skate can't be set, so it was probably wrong all the time.    I have attributed this lack of bending to MM carts generally having stronger cantilevers (and suspensions) than MC  (although some, like the AT440MLa were fairly fine).

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43 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

It is interesting to me that many suspect anti-skate for problems like this.    As a stick-in-the-mud  MM cart user,  I have NEVER seen a cantilever stay bent as a result of wrong anti-skate.  Even on systems where anti-skate can't be set, so it was probably wrong all the time.    I have attributed this lack of bending to MM carts generally having stronger cantilevers (and suspensions) than MC  (although some, like the AT440MLa were fairly fine).

 

Hello aussievintage,

 

Over the last 50 years or so I've come across a handful of bent cantilevers that it appeared could only have been caused by pushing constantly against an ill set up bias setting, but it is more likely it is impact damage of some kind though in this case. The way John's @John0001 cantilever is bent though, it is not consistent with missing the edge of the LP at the start, which would normally result in the cantilever being bent in the other direction, so not sure how John thinks he might have damaged it.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

Edited by cheekyboy
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Just now, cheekyboy said:

not consistent with missing the edge of the LP at the start,

 

Oh yes, been there, done that of course.  I wouldn't put too much consideration into the direction of the bend.  Once it misses, it can bounce around and then all bets are off.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

 

Oh yes, been there, done that of course.  I wouldn't put too much consideration into the direction of the bend.  Once it misses, it can bounce around and then all bets are off.

 

 

 

Yikes!!!:o I'm glad you're the one with that experience and not me.:lol:

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

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Interesting comments. One thing I've never been able to entirely get rid of on this deck is when 'dropping' the needle down with the arm lever it seems to make contact with the lead in groove very abruptly rather than softly and smoothly (as I'd expect) and makes a loud pop/grind noise when it hits the record. I've backed off the tracking force and its still the same so yeah, weird.

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22 minutes ago, John0001 said:

Interesting comments. One thing I've never been able to entirely get rid of on this deck is when 'dropping' the needle down with the arm lever it seems to make contact with the lead in groove very abruptly rather than softly and smoothly (as I'd expect) and makes a loud pop/grind noise when it hits the record. I've backed off the tracking force and its still the same so yeah, weird.

 

Hello John,

 

Can you hold the cueing lever and lower it manually, so you get a softer landing? Sounds like the damping on the cueing is not working as it should be...............the tonearm should lower slowly and smoothly with no sideways movement.

 

As far as the loud pop is concerned, I always mute the volume until the stylus has made contact with the lead in track.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

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27 minutes ago, John0001 said:

makes a loud pop/grind noise when it hits the record.

 

That's probably the stylus sliding sideways into the next lead-in groove.  If you lower it slowly manually, you can actually hold it and lower it just right to catch a lead-in groove without all the fuss :) 

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9 hours ago, John0001 said:

Interesting comments. One thing I've never been able to entirely get rid of on this deck is when 'dropping' the needle down with the arm lever it seems to make contact with the lead in groove very abruptly rather than softly and smoothly (as I'd expect) and makes a loud pop/grind noise when it hits the record. I've backed off the tracking force and its still the same so yeah, weird.

If the damping on the cueing mechanism is OK then I suspect the noise is as @aussievintage says. One solution is to push the arm slightly further across the record to ensure the needle drops on the flat bit before the music and not on the slope down from the outer edge bead. Sometimes the anti-skating can move the arm out a bit on needle drop.

 

Keep the tracking force at the right level and don't play with it.

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10 hours ago, aussievintage said:

It is interesting to me that many suspect anti-skate for problems like this.    As a stick-in-the-mud  MM cart user,  I have NEVER seen a cantilever stay bent as a result of wrong anti-skate.  Even on systems where anti-skate can't be set, so it was probably wrong all the time.    I have attributed this lack of bending to MM carts generally having stronger cantilevers (and suspensions) than MC  (although some, like the AT440MLa were fairly fine).

 

+1 from me.

 

Had a brand new DV-20XL LOMC that had its cantilever go to one side after 2 weeks of playback on a VPI Scout with JMW-9 tonearm. Mr Davies from DV inspected it and said the suspension had collapsed on one side.

 

Also, purchased a VPI TNT with JMW-10 and the Benz Glider on it arrived like this .....

 

IMAG0350.jpg

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1 hour ago, xlr8or said:

 

+1 from me.

 

Had a brand new DV-20XL LOMC that had its cantilever go to one side after 2 weeks of playback on a VPI Scout with JMW-9 tonearm. Mr Davies from DV inspected it and said the suspension had collapsed on one side.

 

Also, purchased a VPI TNT with JMW-10 and the Benz Glider on it arrived like this .....

 

IMAG0350.jpg

If you still have it PM me it is an issue with Benz, I was just discussing it on VE. I have seen amy with this problem it is a tie wire issue.

Sometimes fixable too.

Chris

 

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41 minutes ago, cafe latte said:

If you still have it PM me it is an issue with Benz, I was just discussing it on VE. I have seen amy with this problem it is a tie wire issue.

Sometimes fixable too.

Chris

 

 

Hi Chris - thanks - I still have it and will contact you offline. It's also an early one with low serial number prior to the SL, SM and SH versions. It also needs a tip as it arrived without one. 🙂

 

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20190421_115125.jpg

Edited by xlr8or
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Lots of interesting comments, thanks everyone. Points on lowering tonearm on to the lead in groove manually noted, and to avoid excess anti-skate  as well in order to make lead in less risky and also not damage cart.

The Ania will go up to Chris today to have a look at and moving forward I'll be far more careful in use as well as more pedantic with setup of the arm.

 

Analog is certainly expensive and a PITA at times but once you experience its magic it you're hooked!

John

Edited by John0001
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1 hour ago, John0001 said:

 

Analog is certainly expensive and a PITA at times but once you experience its magic it you're hooked!
 

 

I personally have a slightly different view!  I would say "Analog is certainly expensive and a PITA at all times but once you experience its magic it you're hooked! ".  :lol:

 

Andy

 

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14 hours ago, xlr8or said:

 

Hi Chris - thanks - I still have it and will contact you offline. It's also an early one with low serial number prior to the SL, SM and SH versions. It also needs a tip as it arrived without one. 🙂

 

20190421_115255.jpg

20190421_114957.jpg

20190421_115145.jpg

20190421_115125.jpg

Retip is easy, need to make some enquiries re the suspension, normally is is tie wire, yours is disintegrated suspension need to find replacement, I have a friend who may have some, let me know if you want me to check.

Cheers

Chris 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update on this one; Chris (cafe latte) retipped for me which fixed the problem and provided a great upgrade in the process, so a happy camper here with a straight stylus again! Quick turnaround, great to deal with, highly recommended. The new stylus is a vast improvement on the stock Ania! Cheers..

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1 hour ago, John0001 said:

Update on this one; Chris (cafe latte) retipped for me which fixed the problem and provided a great upgrade in the process, so a happy camper here with a straight stylus again! Quick turnaround, great to deal with, highly recommended. The new stylus is a vast improvement on the stock Ania! Cheers..

 

:thumb:   :thumb:   :thumb:

 

Andy

 

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