Fangzie Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 I've never really dipped my toe into vinyl. I've been a physical disk kind of person, but have always opted for CD. There's been a few reasons for this which I won't get in to, but now I'm looking at possibly, just maybe, looking at a turntable. Not immediately. Late this year would likely be the earliest. But I do want to start investigating the possibility. I'm interested in what a decent "beginner" turtable would be. The Rega Planar 3 looks to get good write ups (although maybe not the cartridge?). Are there other options that I should consider at around (or cheaperthan!) the same price? If I was to go with the Rega, shoudl I be looking at a different cartridge, and if so which one? it is going to be connected to a Yamaha A-S1000 amp's intergrated MM phono stage. If there are potential issues here as well, I'd love to know. I know a little, but not much, about turntable in general so am open to any and all suggestions! (Also suggestions on how to quickly build a collection of vinyl when living in Melbourne) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosco8 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) Quite a few TT 2nd hand on Stereonet, Dual's and Thoren's were pretty simple and robust. When I used to buy albums I set a budget of 2 new albums a week (I got paid weekly), depending on what you like op shops and classifieds here for 2nd hand. Occasionally you will find somebody selling their old collection at garage sales or on Gumtree and you can pick up some gems. Edited January 17, 2021 by Rosco8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 33 minutes ago, Fangzie said: I've never really dipped my toe into vinyl. I've been a physical disk kind of person, but have always opted for CD. There's been a few reasons for this which I won't get in to, but now I'm looking at possibly, just maybe, looking at a turntable. Not immediately. Late this year would likely be the earliest. But I do want to start investigating the possibility. NO!! Shoot that damn rabbit! Do not follow it down the rabbit hole (or you will regret it). Andy 4 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 49 minutes ago, Fangzie said: I'm interested in what a decent "beginner" turtable would be. It is different things to different people. My take on it, is that it is the minimum quality turntable that will not damage records and will produce a good hifi sound - somewhere in the same ballpark as CDs and hires MP3s. This is often best achieved by a basic manual turntable. Pro-ject Elemental, Primary, and Essential lines, and Regas, starting with the Rega Planar 1. Since you mention the Rega Planar 3, yes certainly OK. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mloutfie Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Fangzie said: I'm interested in what a decent "beginner" turtable would be. what's your current digital setup? cos if you have a good digital setup a beginner turntable might be not as good 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangzie Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 1 hour ago, mloutfie said: what's your current digital setup? cos if you have a good digital setup a beginner turntable might be not as good Currently using a CD-S1000 as my cd player 2 hours ago, aussievintage said: It is different things to different people Yeah, I understand it's not universal as a term so I guess what I specifically am looking for is a turntable that is useable for a new-comer to vinyl - I understand there can be some with tricky suspension or finicky tone-arms. I'm trying to avoid these. I'm looking for a turntable that will be newbie friendly but won't provide underwhelming sound quality (like I suspect I might find on the budget options). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantan Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 18 minutes ago, Fangzie said: . I'm looking for a turntable that will be newbie friendly but won't provide underwhelming sound quality (like I suspect I might find on the budget options). This is a nice balance between ease of use and set up without breaking the bank. https://klappav.com.au/collections/music-hall/products/mmf-3-3-turntable-black 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mloutfie Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 21 minutes ago, Fangzie said: Currently using a CD-S1000 as my cd player Yeah, I understand it's not universal as a term so I guess what I specifically am looking for is a turntable that is useable for a new-comer to vinyl - I understand there can be some with tricky suspension or finicky tone-arms. I'm trying to avoid these. I'm looking for a turntable that will be newbie friendly but won't provide underwhelming sound quality (like I suspect I might find on the budget options). If you're coming from a $2000 SACD player expect a step down in detail retrieval to a $1000 deck but it might still give you a better or "different" experience still over CD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NADbooffa Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 5 hours ago, Fangzie said: I've never really dipped my toe into vinyl. I've been a physical disk kind of person, but have always opted for CD. There's been a few reasons for this which I won't get in to, but now I'm looking at possibly, just maybe, looking at a turntable. Not immediately. Late this year would likely be the earliest. But I do want to start investigating the possibility. Welcome to the vinyl world ! I started doing the same thing about 10 months ago and just loving it. Dusted off my old record collection and bought a middle of the range new turn-table to go with my system. Have to say that, I am enjoying vinyls (mostly the 70's and 80's pressing) a lot more than digitally recorded music. Cheers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Fangzie said: I understand there can be some with tricky suspension or finicky tone-arms. I'm trying to avoid these. I'm looking for a turntable that will be newbie friendly but won't provide underwhelming sound quality (like I suspect I might find on the budget options). All the ones being talked about willfit the bill. Nothing finicky or tricky. Just simple manual operation. All will sound good as they come, and even improve with a cartridge or even maybe a stylus upgrade later if you desire. You mentioned the Rega 3. I think I would rate that as a step up from the basic beginner level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyW Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 (edited) You can do a lot worse than sourcing a vintage Victor TT-Y5 from Japan. $800 for the table, $330 for a full recap and installation of quality RCA sockets and a banana plug for earth (I provided the sockets and banana plug) + a 240 to 110V step down transformer and you'd be doing very well to better it's performance ever. There are various tweaks like SDS IsoPlatMat, deadening the plinth etc that you can do to improve it still further. I'm rapt with mine. Far better performance for the cost than it possible with new tables. Edited January 18, 2021 by MattyW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunxsword Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 6 hours ago, andyr said: NO!! Shoot that damn rabbit! Do not follow it down the rabbit hole (or you will regret it). Andy Seconded. I'm already in too deep to dig myself out. On a more serious note I think I can set some expectations on what to expect from a turntable connected to the same amp and out gear compared to digital. Bass on the TT will be softer, less impactful. More thud than thump so to speak. You will also get well acquainted with a high noise floor from things such as surface noise and distortion. Treble will start to match that from digital with cartridges roughly $200 and up. Magic will happen in sound staging and positioning. There's more air, more precision, and a bit of that surreal floating feeling you get when you're drunk without being drunk. MM carts are easy to handle. MC gets a bit technical with load matching from the phono. Turntable setup isn't that difficult in my experience. Alignment needs a small flathead screwdriver, an alignment protractor (from the internet), a steady hand and a bit of fiddly back and forth. Tracking force with MM is fairly lenient. Some can do +/- 0.5g and still work as expected. Though I heard MC will be more finicky. Some people say VTA isn't as important but I wouldn't get one without it. VTA makes a noticeable difference to the sound and TT without it will have to resort to changing slip mats to adjust VTA. Slip mats make a real difference to sound. They're also overpriced for what they do. I have one. As for actual recommendations, I don't like Rega in general. I like to change carts around so a removable headshell is a must for me. I'd go for the Drop + Audio Technica Carbon VTA for less than 1/2 the price. It's the 'entry' TT I'd want because it cuts the right corners while adding the right premium construction and features. Full metal base, VTA adjustment, true bypass for internal phono, straight carbon fiber arm, removable headshell and a known quality belt drive. Records are expensive, large, and sometimes heavy. International shipping on records sometimes costs more than the record itself. Some of the records look darn pretty though. I've got more to say but I hope the rabbit hole is clear enough for all to see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyW Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 1 minute ago, gunxsword said: Seconded. I'm already in too deep to dig myself out. On a more serious note I think I can set some expectations on what to expect from a turntable connected to the same amp and out gear compared to digital. Bass on the TT will be softer, less impactful. More thud than thump so to speak. You will also get well acquainted with a high noise floor from things such as surface noise and distortion. Treble will start to match that from digital with cartridges roughly $200 and up. Magic will happen in sound staging and positioning. There's more air, more precision, and a bit of that surreal floating feeling you get when you're drunk without being drunk. MM carts are easy to handle. MC gets a bit technical with load matching from the phono. Turntable setup isn't that difficult in my experience. Alignment needs a small flathead screwdriver, an alignment protractor (from the internet), a steady hand and a bit of fiddly back and forth. Tracking force with MM is fairly lenient. Some can do +/- 0.5g and still work as expected. Though I heard MC will be more finicky. Some people say VTA isn't as important but I wouldn't get one without it. VTA makes a noticeable difference to the sound and TT without it will have to resort to changing slip mats to adjust VTA. Slip mats make a real difference to sound. They're also overpriced for what they do. I have one. As for actual recommendations, I don't like Rega in general. I like to change carts around so a removable headshell is a must for me. I'd go for the Drop + Audio Technica Carbon VTA for less than 1/2 the price. It's the 'entry' TT I'd want because it cuts the right corners while adding the right premium construction and features. Full metal base, VTA adjustment, true bypass for internal phono, straight carbon fiber arm, removable headshell and a known quality belt drive. Records are expensive, large, and sometimes heavy. International shipping on records sometimes costs more than the record itself. Some of the records look darn pretty though. I've got more to say but I hope the rabbit hole is clear enough for all to see. Then there's low output moving iron.... The Grado Statement Master 1 is by far the best performing, most natural sounding cart I've ever heard. Not a fan of the high output versions as those don't strike me as natural at all. That said, LOMI carts simply do not work with step up transformers. You need quality active amplification such as the MC section of a phone stage or a MC head amp such as the Aksa Paris to get it to work correctly. Sadly the MC section of most phono stages leaves a bit to be desired so you're better of with a stand alone head amp with the phono stage. Correct loading is critical for the best with these carts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Sorry, I think we are getting to deep into it. The OP asked for a decent beginner table. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromelang Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Fangzie said: Currently using a CD-S1000 as my cd player Yeah, I understand it's not universal as a term so I guess what I specifically am looking for is a turntable that is useable for a new-comer to vinyl - I understand there can be some with tricky suspension or finicky tone-arms. I'm trying to avoid these. I'm looking for a turntable that will be newbie friendly but won't provide underwhelming sound quality (like I suspect I might find on the budget options). It will be very easy for any decent turntable to beat this yammy. The yammy's elder brothers: CD-S3000, CD-S2100, CD-S2000 were all found to have absolute polarity inverted on both RCA (and XLR if available) outputs. It is entirely possible that the S1000 was similarly wired. If that is the case, as long as the cartridge is correctly wired, you should be able to hear a more weighty and tangible presence, clearer imaging outlines and greater dynamic impact from even entry-intermediate level turntables. And if i may, i would buy new, and go for something better than entry level straightaway. The Technics SL1210 is worth considering. I like how easy it is to adjust the VTA without having to lighten/tighten any locking screws, and the whole arm stem only moves when the big vta adjustment wheel is turned. The s-shape arm generally sounds more natural. I use it with a otofon 2m bronze and the sound is superb for the money. Edited January 18, 2021 by jeromelang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromelang Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 A few things to watch out for in advance: Always remember to switch off digital components around the proximity when you are playing records. Although a clamp is always recommended to prevent record slippages, but do not use any metallic stabilizer/weights. The clearaudio plastic clever little clamp is cheap and does its job very well without exerting unnecessary magnetic field interference onto the cartridge and wires. Grounding wire for your phone cables are directional. If you happen to get a detached single wire for grounding, remember to try it both ways for confirmation - more recessed, wider and taller soundstage is always the correct one. Dun buy aussie pressings unless it is a release by an aussie artiste under the copyright of an aussie label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangzie Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 Thanks for all the info and suggestions! In regards to VTA, is there a reason some turntables don't include it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 6 minutes ago, Fangzie said: In regards to VTA, is there a reason some turntables don't include it? In regards to allowing VTA adjustment - it's simply mfrs' (such as Rega's) cost-reduction measures that cause this essential feature to be skipped. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Fangzie said: Thanks for all the info and suggestions! In regards to VTA, is there a reason some turntables don't include it? It's VTA adjustment actually, that is not provided. They have a fixed VTA. In an effort to create a lower end or beginners turntable, most manufacturers provide a fixed headshell arm with their chosen cartridge already mounted and setup. Provided you don't alter something, like the mat thickness, then VTA will be correct. In the same way, some even have fixed or preset anti-skate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Hey, OP Did you see this review? Seems like what you were asking for. " I'm talking about a suspended subchassis and overly-complex tonearm arrangements that demand hours of pin-point aligning accuracy. If that's your thing, then more power to you – but this deck showed us that there was a larger audience out there who simply wanted to enjoy their LP records…" https://www.stereo.net.au/reviews/pro-ject-debut-carbon-evo-turntable-review Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangzie Posted January 20, 2021 Author Share Posted January 20, 2021 20 hours ago, aussievintage said: Hey, OP Did you see this review? Seems like what you were asking for. " I'm talking about a suspended subchassis and overly-complex tonearm arrangements that demand hours of pin-point aligning accuracy. If that's your thing, then more power to you – but this deck showed us that there was a larger audience out there who simply wanted to enjoy their LP records…" https://www.stereo.net.au/reviews/pro-ject-debut-carbon-evo-turntable-review I actually just saw it when I jumped on today, but thanks for bringing it to my attention! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebowski Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 On 18/01/2021 at 10:05 AM, Fangzie said: I've never really dipped my toe into vinyl. I've been a physical disk kind of person, but have always opted for CD. There's been a few reasons for this which I won't get in to, but now I'm looking at possibly, just maybe, looking at a turntable. Not immediately. Late this year would likely be the earliest. But I do want to start investigating the possibility. I'm interested in what a decent "beginner" turtable would be. The Rega Planar 3 looks to get good write ups (although maybe not the cartridge?). Are there other options that I should consider at around (or cheaperthan!) the same price? If I was to go with the Rega, shoudl I be looking at a different cartridge, and if so which one? it is going to be connected to a Yamaha A-S1000 amp's intergrated MM phono stage. If there are potential issues here as well, I'd love to know. I know a little, but not much, about turntable in general so am open to any and all suggestions! (Also suggestions on how to quickly build a collection of vinyl when living in Melbourne) I suggest you get uninterested quickly 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
April Snow Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 "Hello my name is Alice - welcome to the Rabbit Hole !!" (OK my name not really Alice...............I may be lying about that part) I was not sure if I would like vinyl or not - so I brought an Audio Technica LP120 at the time - not very expensive but reliable enough for a newbie & the reviews are good for that as a starter turntable. A lovely member from here set it up properly for me. I used it for about 2.5 months to test the hobby out. I used that table to get used to the vinyl & using a turntable and found out I loved the hobby and then brought a Technics 1200GR as I was committed to the hobby. I then was able to sell the ATLP120 on Gumtree to another person wanting to test the hobby out and only lost $100 on the purchase price. I did not jump in too expensive without being sure I would like the sound of vinyl first though because it is different - but now I prefer it over digital. I did not want to make a big financial commitment to a turntable without being sure I would actually get the benefit of the outlay. That was just over 1 year ago ...............and many noodle meals since coz I spent so much on Records in 2020. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 I don't think you will go too far wrong with the entry level/step up models being recommended here. But before you jump in think about the records you want and how much you want to spend on them. It will likely be more, possibly a lot more, than the turntable itself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantan Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Monty said: . But before you jump in think about the records you want and how much you want to spend on them. It will likely be more, possibly a lot more, than the turntable itself. This really is something to consider and I know that many (most?) people have record collections which are vastly higher in cost than the turntable which spins them. As an approximate, let us assume an average ( new and used) price for LPs at $35 each and a collection of 150 records. This amounts to $5200, which I venture to suggest is far in excess of what many people spend on a TT and cart. I am in no way saying it is not worth it, but just making a point that the hardware is often the least expensive part of playing and loving a good vinyl album collection. Edited January 20, 2021 by rantan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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