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Hdfury Vertex2 - Dolby Vision for JVC x7900 Projector


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Hi, 

 

Thinking of getting a Hdfury Vertex2 for LLDV output from ATV4K (Netflix and Disney+ Dolby Vision content), Oppo 203 4K DV UHDs and Xbox Series X to JVC x7900 projector. 

 

Anyone have experience with this device (or any other HDfury device) for my intended purpose of outputting DV via projector ?

 

Wondering if there will be a noticeable difference between HDR10 vs Dolby Vision (outputted by ATV4K, Oppo 203 and Xbox Series X as SDR content to PJ).

 

I already have a good MadVR PC setup for 4KUHDs so just wondering if I will be benefit from Hdfury for DV for above sources ?

 

Many Thanks !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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So , does anyone have experience using Apple TV 4K with a Hdfury device to display LLDV (Dolby Vision) on a 4K projector (native or e-shift) ? Would greatly like to hear some feedback before I take the plunge !

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  • 1 month later...

I'm looking to pull the trigger on a Vertex2 unless someone tells me it's a waste of money.

 

I really would like to know if the Dolby Vision picture quality through ATV4K will be better than the regular HDR10 through my JVC projector ??

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On 20/02/2021 at 10:35 PM, agrif78 said:

I'm looking to pull the trigger on a Vertex2 unless someone tells me it's a waste of money.

 

I really would like to know if the Dolby Vision picture quality through ATV4K will be better than the regular HDR10 through my JVC projector ??

Sorry for the belated reply.

I've been using a Vertex for LLDV from my Oppo 203 and ATV4k for about the last 9 months through my JVC X7000.

Dolby Vision discs thru the Oppo show a marginal improvement over the HDR10 versions of the same movie.  Mainly in colour "volume" and dynamic range. Mind you I certainly wouldn't say the difference is "black and white ".

I spent many days reviewing content when I first tried this hack, and initially I wondered what all the fuss was about. 

One of the downsides to setting up LLDV as the default Macro setting in the Vertex is that DV removes the on screen menu for things like volume control and aspect ratio. 

If you haven't read it , here is a typical 150 page thread on the subject

 https://www.avsforum.com/threads/dolby-vision-including-hdr10-conversion-w-dtm-on-projectors.3097934/

Now I just leave things as set and forget. I figure that since I can't afford an N9 , a Lumagen or an Envy and can't be bothered with an HTPC , this is about as good as I could get it. 

I think your Madvr will do a better job .

Good luck. 

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Thanks @IMDave , all good :) 

 

Do you have Vertex or Vertex2 ?

 

Could you advise how exactly you have the Opportunity and ATV4K connected ? I am using AVR if that helps.

 

Is it necessary for me to flash the Vertex2 with some sort of custom JVC curves ? I think I read that somewhere but that was reported in late 2019 so may not be required these days and could be incorporated into ‘out of the box’ Vertex2 firmware ...

 

I have ripped my UHD collection to PC for MadVR and it is super excellent. As you say, will probably stick to MadVR for UHDs. But, to satisfy my curiosity I will try out a few UHD DV discs through the Oppo203 for comparison of LLDV versus HDR 10.

 

But .... I’m mostly getting Vertex2 for LLDV output on Netflix, Disney+ and Amazon Prime Video using ATV4K.

 

I’m expecting to be challenged to initially set up the Vertex2 upon arrival but am hopeful that all will work smoothly with some good ol’ trial and error lol 

 

Thanks for the link to the AVS thread. I did read about 10 - 15 pages and will no doubt delve deeper as there is a tonne of useful information from the experts there who have been doing this LLDV hack since late 2019 right !

 

Yeah, I would also love an N7 or N9 but should be happy enough with my x7900 until the next JVC models appear, whenever that might be !

 

I should get the Vertex2 next week and will happily report back my testing results.

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I tried one of these and did more harm than good to the PQ - in the end I decided it was all not worth the marginal improvement (if any), and to be it just seemed like one more link in the already complicated HDMI chain.

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Sorry I hope I didn't put you off - Vertex2. I've thrown it in a cupboard now out of frustration.

I was using it with a Sony 4K PJ. I found the interface near on impossible to navigate, the actual information even harder to obtain/follow.

Then it also introduced some artefacts and HDMI issues for me. Sounded good in theory, but whether it was my lack of knowledge and/or patience, I struggled. I do hope you get better results and will follow this thread to see how you go.

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Nah mate, all good !

 

I've made the Vertex2 investment now so I'm gonna do everything possible to achieve my goal to get superior lldv video output from Netflix/Amazon/ATV+ for ATV4K.

 

Could be a gamble but better to try and fail than not give it a crack I reckon 🤣

 

My MadVR setup for my digital UHD collo will probably still give better results than lldv output from Oppo 203 but I'm gonna test that out too.

 

I'm expecting a steep learning curve but I love tech so I'm up for the challenge.

 

Hopefully my results can help others too.

 

Will update this thread as I move forward into the Matrix !

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If you crack the code and get good results I'll give it another shot based on your learnings :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have been able to successfully get LLDV content to playback from Oppo 203 UHDs and ATV4K for Netflix, Disney+ and ATV+. Results are seriously impressive and comparable to MadVR !

 

I will upload screenshots of my Vertex2 settings over the weekend.

 

Definitely recommend taking the punt on the Vertex2 if the rest of your equipment is able to take advantage of its LLDV output capabilities.

 

 

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there is some chatter going on with regards stacey spears discovery with regards DV on disc actually uses SDR BT709 ! rather than HDR BT2020. and its actually better to use the HDR10 version than DV - this is courtesy of phil nick in the jvc n series owners thread,

 

"Interesting stuff from the Oppo UDP-203 forum.

Someone posted a link to a post at Blu-ray dot com by Stacey Spears (in the discussion under his Spears & Munsil disk) in which he concludes that DolbyVision on disk uses SDR (BT.709) not HDR (BT.2020) and that it's better - regardless of player - to use HDR10 instead of DV.

So we can count ourselves lucky that our projectors are HDR10 with built-in on-the-fly tone mapping to do - tuned to our projector's capabilities - what DV pre-cooks based on average display capabilities."

 

am with the sentiment above though that the earlier fury product I tried in my  system introduced hdmi related gremlins. something i have not seen likes of in years now since its removal. makes my reluctance to try anything of theirs since ! 

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On 10/03/2021 at 9:02 PM, betty boop said:

there is some chatter going on with regards stacey spears discovery with regards DV on disc actually uses SDR BT709 ! rather than HDR BT2020. and its actually better to use the HDR10 version than DV - this is courtesy of phil nick in the jvc n series owners thread,

 

Some great insight from Stacey about the timelines of cal discs and what we lost when oppo stopped applying pressure to the chipmakers . Good to see finally a 4k cal disc on the verge of release ; lets hope it causes plenty of pressure on the player ce's 

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=18700260&postcount=764

 

Quote

We worked with anther company to build a disc for them. They told us to make them look good and everyone else look bad. Just two examples of different approaches companies take.

Any guesses ? Stacy is too much of a professional to say 😉

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Hey guys, here are my Vertex2 settings below (most important ones for LLDV anyway) and will drop some screen pics from Netflix LLDV output from the movie 6 Underground via ATV4K. Cannot comment on quality of movie script but LLDV video looks ACE !

 

I have Pioneer LX901 AVR. LLDV sources are connected into Vertex2 and output is then fed into Pioneer LX901. Pio is then connected to output of PJ JVC x7900.

 

Credit to user Markswift2003 in the following link for putting me on the right path towards getting this LLDV to work ! 

 

http://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?threads/hdfury-vertex2-dynamic-dv-content-from-lldv-source-on-any-hdr10-display.82831/ 

 

Here below are screenshots of my Vertex2 settings:

 

In HDR/AVI tab, once you have made the relevant changes to settings, make sure you click "Create IF" and then "Send HDR" so the settings get sent to Vertex2.

 

Make sure to also follow my OSD settings so that you get correct LLDV OSD.

 

1486900144_Vertex2INFOedit.PNG.a5e99768580d31195e71b3ab68c011a0.PNG1658663800_Vertex2EDIDedit.PNG.86aad857e2d2d2ca8373f86507609037.PNG1429477616_Vertex2SCALERedit.PNG.8418ed743ab40bce9c079236b09517d6.PNG260682478_Vertex2HDR_AVIedit.PNG.c1dd51ae4b91ded271d09644e07d9748.PNG1364447014_Vertex2DVedit.PNG.ff5156bf74d9fb1997fe4e3e9ff4e345.PNG1872713295_Vertex2OSDedit.PNG.a24fd5b450453d9e02820cf2358841db.PNG

 

Hope this helps others. Page 1 of the linked Zidoo forum post has some great info about how to get this all working so please refer there for further guidance also if you get stuck setting this up. 

 

This Vertex2 LLDV hack has far exceeded my expectations and I really happy I took the gamble !

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Here are some LLDV screen pics of 6 Underground which is both Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos on Netflix via ATV4K. Screen pics with Pixel 2XL camera phone doesn't do the image quality true justice ! Trust me, the native images are spectacular. PJ in HDR mode.

 

Oppo 203 LLDV looks totally awesome too, close to MadVR. ATV+ and Disney+ LLDV output also special :) 

 

 

 

1.thumb.jpg.517e6d8d2a807bf3772b2d1e10d598d3.jpg2.thumb.jpg.001488486ea5af5b95767f6b9576d5d3.jpg3.thumb.jpg.cf469bdb9bfb52c1e30d142f85261ed5.jpg4.thumb.jpg.80d0d3908d5896a4505a9d26dee8ca1e.jpg5.thumb.jpg.5682d2d7d6ca219bbb2a0cc72ba2c95d.jpg6.thumb.jpg.d31e90b7bc78d6e321f4e16e82f887f4.jpg7.thumb.jpg.0ae8db5f32a45cfcb5b6e6abce92b93e.jpg8.thumb.jpg.dd578bde92e359516e11d2a200edd45e.jpg9.thumb.jpg.64865209b02b0555e877a60f534f78b7.jpg10.thumb.jpg.d993e604dff0778caad8ee923b8e4dbf.jpg

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On 10/03/2021 at 9:02 PM, betty boop said:

there is some chatter going on with regards stacey spears discovery with regards DV on disc actually uses SDR BT709 ! rather than HDR BT2020. and its actually better to use the HDR10 version than DV - this is courtesy of phil nick in the jvc n series owners thread,

 

"Interesting stuff from the Oppo UDP-203 forum.

Someone posted a link to a post at Blu-ray dot com by Stacey Spears (in the discussion under his Spears & Munsil disk) in which he concludes that DolbyVision on disk uses SDR (BT.709) not HDR (BT.2020) and that it's better - regardless of player - to use HDR10 instead of DV.

So we can count ourselves lucky that our projectors are HDR10 with built-in on-the-fly tone mapping to do - tuned to our projector's capabilities - what DV pre-cooks based on average display capabilities."

 

am with the sentiment above though that the earlier fury product I tried in my  system introduced hdmi related gremlins. something i have not seen likes of in years now since its removal. makes my reluctance to try anything of theirs since ! 

 

This is very interesting feedback ! All I can say is that my personal experience with Vertex2 and latest FW has been VERY positive :) I now find myself watching a whole heap of streaming LLDV content that I never even knew existed whereas before when I was a pure MadVR PC UHD snob lol 

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11 minutes ago, agrif78 said:

This is very interesting feedback ! All I can say is that my personal experience with Vertex2 and latest FW has been VERY positive :) I now find myself watching a whole heap of streaming LLDV content that I never even knew existed whereas before when I was a pure MadVR PC UHD snob lol 

hi agri, dont let my post change your enthusiasm or appeal for what doing for you, my post more for awareness with regards stacey spears finding with regards DV and how tackled in sources... and where its player led which is what happens when going LLDV. so not really a vertex thing more how players and dolby are doing things he goes as far as calling it "amateur hour"  😮 and "player-led is not usable from a quality standpoint" but does also temper by saying the bugs are subtle.... :) 

 

see posts below quoting from link posted above,

 

Confirmed the issue is an OPPO bug and does not occur on Panasonic.

However, at this point in time, I think Dolby on BD is a real disappointment.
1. They appear to be using 709, instead of 2020, upsampling so there is a half pixel vertical delay between Y and C. Verified this on both OPPO and Panasonic.
2. The 4:2:2 to 4:4:4 conversion in the Dolby engine, on the display side, is very low quality and lacks chroma resolution compared to HDR10 on the same display.
3. Dolby has chroma ringing in their upsampling, similar to Panasonic. You can see it come and go on the OPPO when you switch between Dolby Vision and HDR10.

Maybe I will invest in a Lumagen or MadVR Envy and use HDR10 on all Dolby titles.

I also tested player vs. tv-led. Player-led has the same issues where black is crushed more and the top two boxes on the CSE pattern don't blend, all the time! At first I thought the OPPO bug might simply be playing in player-led, but that was not the case as player-led has some other differences as well.

I did find that if I let a pattern play until the player loops it, it actually resolves the bug on OPPO. Not sure why it does but nothing else but a power cycle does.
 
Stacey Spears
Co-Creator, Spears & Munsil UHD HDR Benchmark

 

The OPPO, from a usability standpoint. (Speed, source direct, etc...) is the best. It just has so many bugs around audio and video and that is due to lack of proper tools to test. Our disc came way to late. You don't want to use 4:4:4 out of the player due to nearest neighbor upsampling for example. This is 4:2:2 to 4:4:4. 

Panasonic has ringing in chroma due to the bicubic upsampling. It produces higher resolution chroma overall, just wish they could implement an anti-ringing algorithm. The Dolby issues are not their fault either since they are in the Dolby SDK. Wish they would apply pressure to Dolby.

I really hope that users and reviewers make a bunch of noise when the new disc ships. Maybe we can apply pressure to get Dolby to fix their bugs.

The Dolby tools that create the content do the proper downsample, its just the playback side that is borked. The professional side of Dolby Vision is done properly. The consumer playback side is amateur hour. Not only in the player, which has an almost zero chance of fixing, but also on the display side. I did a factory reset on my LG this weekend and I am using the factory Dolby cal because the display is flat out wrong after calibration. And as I have said before, player-led is not usable from a quality standpoint. Maybe this is hyperbole since the bugs are subtle, but Dolby is a premium format and should not have these amateur hour issues. Like they say, a few bad apples spoil the bunch and Dolby should toss those bad apples. They know who they are!

David and I are actually trying to see if we can work around the Dolby Vision issue when switching to HDR10 and back. We found one case where it does reset. The behavior may change once we actually have the menu in place with proper background videos. Should know more in a couple of weeks.
 
Stacey Spears
Co-Creator, Spears & Munsil UHD HDR Benchmark

 

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Yeah I did read all of that. Definitely food for thought.

 

I don't think I'll be using Vertex2 to [consistently] replace my PC MadVR UHD playback setup but it's certainly fun to have different options and to experiment.

 

However, for streaming services that offer LLDV output options via ATV4K, I think there there is a real & tangible benefit to adding the Vertex2 into the AV chain :) As always, different users may experience different outcomes, especially with the myriad types of AV equipment that exist, however, I can say that my personal experience, using my particular AV equipment, has been overwhelmingly positive ! :) Fun days ahead !

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