Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted January 3, 2021 Volunteer Share Posted January 3, 2021 Saw this on another forum, it seems Neil Young has removed his catalog from Tidal (my underlining) "TIDAL is calling their files of my songs Masters. But Tidal’s MQA files are not my masters. I make my masters - not TIDAL. I don’t need some hocus-pocus file manipulation that claims to improve my work. I made my masters the way I wanted them to sound. If TIDAL referred to their titles as TIDAL MASTERS, I would have no problem, but they don’t. They call them Masters. I had my music removed from that platform. They are not my masters." https://neilyoungarchives.com/news/1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekyboy Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Bugger him, I was wondering why I kept getting the notification ‘Asset is not ready for playback’ on any of his albums! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 But aside from his personal feelings about it, I must admit I also thought that terminology was a bit misleading. I get what they are trying to say, but they could have found a new term instead of re-using an old one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted January 4, 2021 Author Volunteer Share Posted January 4, 2021 16 minutes ago, cheekyboy said: Bugger him, I think that’s rather harsh. If MQA makes the claim that they bring you closer to what the artist intended and the whole chain is “authenticated”, then they’d better actually do that. Neil Young says they aren’t, so I think he is absolutely entitled to arc up about it. 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy8 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 If only other artists follow his lead... Neil Young has a history of being outspoken and many people will just shrug and move on. P/s link not working... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirdDrawerDown Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 I'm with the artist here. It's bad enough the record companies not giving a flying fig for music quality ("here, have a a mp3 download with that"). Neil seems to be one of the few artists who is passionate about the listener hearing what he hears in the studio. Good on him! Few others care for the consumer. Seems like he's considered MQA as an emulation logarithm and found it lacking. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted January 4, 2021 Author Volunteer Share Posted January 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said: P/s link not working... The link doesn’t seem to work on my phone but does work on my computer. Not sure why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted January 4, 2021 Author Volunteer Share Posted January 4, 2021 7 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said: The link doesn’t seem to work on my phone but does work on my computer. Not sure why Here is his article: WHY I’M NOT ON TIDAL TIDAL is calling their files of my songs Masters. But Tidal’s MQA files are not my masters. I make my masters - not TIDAL. I don’t need some hocus-pocus file manipulation that claims to improve my work. I made my masters the way I wanted them to sound. If TIDAL referred to their titles as TIDAL MASTERS, I would have no problem, but they don’t. They call them Masters. I had my music removed from that platform. They are not my masters. TIDAL FALSELY LABELING MY RECORDINGS AS MASTERS Tidal’s master is a degradation of the original to make it fit in a box that collects royalties. That money ultimately is paid by listeners. I am not behind it. I am out of there. Gone. My masters are the original. AMAZON HD and Qobuz are good alternatives to TIDAL where the real music - exactly as made by the artists and producers - is played. They play my masters. I don’t care if I am the last of a dying breed. I am proud to stand up for the work I did with my friends over the last 55 years. I don’t need or want Tidal’s so called improvements. I have heard them. They are degraded from my masters. They are manipulated and not our original work. I don’t buy the TIDAL hype. MQA is the company supplying technology to TIDAL. In their own official descriptions they go into what they did to my original files. They altered them and charge a royalty. I feel that my master files are in no way improved. They are degraded and manipulated. I made them. I know the difference. I can hear it. Neil Young 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffen Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 That’s right, I want my tracks mastered by some 75yo muso who’s probably got less than 30% of his hearing left! That’s the only way of future proofing (I’m going to be 75 years old one day, too). That said, MQA is a scam, designed to shoehorn DRM back into the high-res music downloads and streaming market. It should be burned on a stake, not fawned over. It’s the HDCP of high-res music. Also, lossy compression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyse1 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Incredible to hear Neil Young being criticised by record lovers considering he has been critical of CDs as far back as the the time they were invented and has been relentless in his criticism of the format Not only that he actually makes the music Im not personally interested in the format wars but I’m inclined to believe musicians over stereo lovers on the subject of sound 8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekyboy Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, sir sanders zingmore said: I think that’s rather harsh. If MQA makes the claim that they bring you closer to what the artist intended and the whole chain is “authenticated”, then they’d better actually do that. Neil Young says they aren’t, so I think he is absolutely entitled to arc up about it. FFS, stuff him then!! I’m a Neil Young tragic and love his music an I understand his stance...........I’ve got family visiting from Melbourne and Tidal playing out on our back deck has been getting a real workout, but tried to put a playlist of Neil Young on the other day and it wouldn’t play. The bugger him comment was meant in jest and I’m pretty sure you new that anyway. Cheers, Keith (PS) Back to vinyl I guess for Neil, but hard to get that outside on the back deck. Edited January 4, 2021 by cheekyboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted January 4, 2021 Author Volunteer Share Posted January 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, cheekyboy said: The bugger him comment was meant in jest and I’m pretty sure you new that anyway. It wasn’t clear to me that it was in jest. I read the post, complete with angry face, as being... well...... angry. Working out what people really mean is hard enough in person..., 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekyboy Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, keyse1 said: Incredible to hear Neil Young being criticised by record lovers considering he has been critical of CDs as far back as the the time they were invented and has been relentless in his criticism of the format Not only that he actually makes the music Im not personally interested in the format wars but I’m inclined to believe musicians over stereo lovers on the subject of sound I know Neil Young can be outspoken and is protective of his own material, but I’ve not read too much criticism of him by record lovers for his stance? I have a big collection of NY albums on vinyl, but I will still listen to him on CD and as I often do, on Tidal too. When I couldn’t get his albums to play the other day on Tidal, I speculated to my girls that he probably cracked the sh1ts with Tidal and withdrew his catalogue. Cheers, Keith Edited January 4, 2021 by cheekyboy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat-with-one-t Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Neil Young has always been hell bent on reproduction authenticity, and always sticks by his methods and loyalties. I admire that. Also, once you've produced a repertoire and following such as his, and have maintained integrity to the music first and foremost, you most certainly earn the right to opinion! This highlights a real concern in this modern age. Are you getting what you think you're getting, and more importantly, are the artists getting paid for their material? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekyboy Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said: It wasn’t clear to me that it was in jest. I read the post, complete with angry face, as being... well...... angry. Working out what people really mean is hard enough in person..., Still going!..........I did not mean the term in a literal sense, FFS, which I presume you know what it means. I was annoyed that I couldn’t play my saved playlist of Neil Young albums on Tidal is all, but let me repeat, I understand and support his stance, I’ll just need to go put a vinyl album on or heaven forbid a CeeDee instead!! Hope that clears it up. Cheers, Keith Edited January 4, 2021 by cheekyboy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy8 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, sir sanders zingmore said: Here is his article: WHY I’M NOT ON TIDAL TIDAL is calling their files of my songs Masters. But Tidal’s MQA files are not my masters. I make my masters - not TIDAL. I don’t need some hocus-pocus file manipulation that claims to improve my work. I made my masters the way I wanted them to sound. If TIDAL referred to their titles as TIDAL MASTERS, I would have no problem, but they don’t. They call them Masters. I had my music removed from that platform. They are not my masters. TIDAL FALSELY LABELING MY RECORDINGS AS MASTERS Tidal’s master is a degradation of the original to make it fit in a box that collects royalties. That money ultimately is paid by listeners. I am not behind it. I am out of there. Gone. My masters are the original. AMAZON HD and Qobuz are good alternatives to TIDAL where the real music - exactly as made by the artists and producers - is played. They play my masters. I don’t care if I am the last of a dying breed. I am proud to stand up for the work I did with my friends over the last 55 years. I don’t need or want Tidal’s so called improvements. I have heard them. They are degraded from my masters. They are manipulated and not our original work. I don’t buy the TIDAL hype. MQA is the company supplying technology to TIDAL. In their own official descriptions they go into what they did to my original files. They altered them and charge a royalty. I feel that my master files are in no way improved. They are degraded and manipulated. I made them. I know the difference. I can hear it. Neil Young Yes, was using phone. Thank you for cut and paste! But could not read in dark mode on phone! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted January 4, 2021 Author Volunteer Share Posted January 4, 2021 More incentive to move to Qoboz - if we ever get it here that is 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esoterica Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Very interesting pov from Young. Makes me want to look into Amazon HD. If it wasn't for the free, or very cheap plan I'm on now, I wouldn't use Tidal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ehrmantraut Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Well the "old man" with a "heart of gold" sure knows how to get us "rockin in the free world" It's all very well for NY to spit the dummy and a fair call for any artist of integrity. It's us 'audiophiliacs' who have to pick up the pieces though for being poorly served by the music industry that we pay for. The simple fact is (and maybe NY is exempt from this - though we all remember Pono) that DSD, re-mastering, HD, MQA and Hi-Res are all marketing ploys to get more $$ out of the catalogues that music companies own. You pay your money and you take your choice and we buy as much hyped and reviewed HiFi as we can afford to listen to our favourite artists, who, by the way are not all blameless. There are so many formats that it is very difficult in our modern lives to have it all in one place. CDs, vinyl, NAS, streaming, Apple Music, Amazon, etc. Then, you need all of the kit to listen to it. One man's Redbook is another's hi-res FLAC. I'll trade your MP3 for an AAC etc. In summary, we've become used to having as much of what we want in one place (or several, like Netflix, Stan, Amazon, Binge, Disney, Apple, Foxtel!!) and we want choices. Where I disagree with NY is that as an "artist", he is restricting my choices to listen to what I've paid for. He is dictating to me how I should listen to his music - or don't! For those of you that are about to launch into how - DSD is better than PCM and MQA is fake news, I urge you to read articles like this: https://www.mojo-audio.com/blog/the-24bit-delusion/ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, BlueOceanBoy said: DSD, re-mastering, HD, MQA and Hi-Res are all marketing ploys to get more $$ out of the catalogues that music companies own. You pay your money and you take your choice and we buy as much hyped and reviewed HiFi as we can afford to listen to our favourite artists, who, by the way are not all blameless. There are so many formats that it is very difficult in our modern lives to have it all in one place. CDs, vinyl, NAS, streaming, Apple Music, Amazon, etc. Then, you need all of the kit to listen to it. One man's Redbook is another's hi-res FLAC. I'll trade your MP3 for an AAC etc. I saw it all coming. Cassettes were the first rip-off format. I went straight back to my vinyl records. Only bought some CDs for portability, use in cars etc, now converted to mp3/flac and still only for convenience. I keep trying streaming and it just leaves me unenthusiastic. Still playing my vinyl (and buying more). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ehrmantraut Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 PS - disclosure - I only listen to Tidal via Roon and NAS FLAC (HD of course!). So I'm sure that NY would feel I'm a devil worshiper and maybe I am! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Marc Posted January 4, 2021 Administrator Share Posted January 4, 2021 50 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said: More incentive to move to Qoboz - if we ever get it here that is Not long now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders3 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, aussievintage said: I saw it all coming. Cassettes were the first rip-off format. I went straight back to my vinyl records. Only bought some CDs for portability, use in cars etc, now converted to mp3/flac and still only for convenience. I keep trying streaming and it just leaves me unenthusiastic. Still playing my vinyl (and buying more). As teenager growing up in the '80's, cassettes were not a ripoff, they were awesome. Were they better than vinyl - absolutely, in a car or in a walkman. The ability to take your music with you everywhere was where it was at especially when you got your first car which you and your mates ripped out the standard clunker and put in a fine pioneer, jvc or akai. I often think the indulgences we have today with almost anything available everywhere is similar. I am heavily invested in vinyl as I love it and I believe sounds the best. Still pretty useless though on a long car trip. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 minute ago, rodders3 said: As teenager growing up in the '80's, cassettes were not a ripoff, they were awesome. Were they better than vinyl - absolutely, in a car or in a walkman. The ability to take your music with you everywhere was where it was at especially when you got your first car which you and your mates ripped out the standard clunker and put in a fine pioneer, jvc or akai. I often think the indulgences we have today with almost anything available everywhere is similar. I am heavily invested in vinyl as I love it and I believe sounds the best. Still pretty useless though on a long car trip. I think I made the point about portability and use in cars as well. Commercially released cassettes were such poor quality, bad sound, wow & flutter from cheap mechanisms in the actual cassette (not the player), cheap shortcuts like foam pressure pads instead of metal springs with a felt pad, etc. Everything since vinyl has been more portable, but that's where the benefit ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaynin Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 2 hours ago, BlueOceanBoy said: though we all remember Pono That’s right. I’d forgotten all about those players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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