DAC improvements - Your understanding of DACS in 2020

[muon*]

Depends what you need.

 

If you are into hi res, DSD or MQA stuff the DAC would need to be functional in those areas, but if not some of the very first DAC chips if implemented well might surprise you and even be preferred, even the first the Philips TDA1540 a 14 bit DAC can present a very detailed and natural sound.

 

Of course connect ability is another area you might need compatibility, and if the DAC itself doesn't meet this there are interfaces that can be added to accommodate.

[Guest rmpfyf]

On 27/12/2020 at 10:22 PM, odb123 said:

So I got into the idea of getting a good sound system a number of years ago. I ended up getting a decent set of speakers and a decent amp. Running them from computer onboard audio I knew I needed to get a dac. Researching speakers and amps came pretty straightforward those years ago, but dacs were sort of an unknown territory with a bit of hocus pocus. I ended up getting an affordable dac and putting it into my chain. The change from onboard audio was stark and at the time I was happy with it. Who wouldn't be with the upgrade from onboard audio to a DAC

 

So I'm wondering if people can give any recommendations about choosing a dac, perhaps dealing with the stuff they learnt over the years. Misconceptions and such.

 

If you're upgrading from onboard audio, it's always going to be stark. 

 

I'd not recommend 'don't go with an old DAC'. There's a ton of hardware out there that measures 'interestingly' and sounds amazing. If at the end of the day you're getting the sound you want at a price you can access, listen happily. 

 

Certainly there are good DACs around and newer stuff generally measures better in most (not all) domains though it's not sufficient as to be 'newer must be good'. Just listen. 

 

Whever you get will need to have the connections you want and any other reasonable features - e.g. if you're playing around with DRC or don't have an analogue volume control in there or whatnot, you'll probably want more than 16 bits unless you intend to do a ton of digital processing. 

 

I have a few DACs made of older (much) older IC's that sound glorious. Wouldn't trade them at all. I have a few Topping D10's around the place I use for development work and sound just fine. 

 

At any rate it's going to be hard to make a good system out of a marginal source. Just listen and let your ears guide you. 

[MLXXX]

4 hours ago, rmpfyf said:

If you're upgrading from onboard audio, it's always going to be stark. 

That may be your experience, rmpfyf. It isn't mine.  

 

If I find the time in coming weeks I might record the output of one of my pc's with its onboard sound and upload it (level-matched) and the source digital file, let's say with both at a 48kHz sample rate (a very common rate these days). I'd then invite forum members to express their opinions as to the extent of audible differences, e.g. "extreme", "stark", "mild", "barely noticeable".  That could be an interesting exercise.

[chewstation]

1 hour ago, MLXXX said:

That may be your experience, rmpfyf. It isn't mine.  

 

If I find the time in coming weeks I might record the output of one of my pc's with its onboard sound and upload it (level-matched) and the source digital file, let's say with both at a 48kHz sample rate (a very common rate these days). I'd then invite forum members to express their opinions as to the extent of audible differences, e.g. "extreme", "stark", "mild", "barely noticeable".  That could be an interesting exercise.

What about onboard audio vs external dac vs source file?

[MLXXX]

8 hours ago, chewstation said:

What about onboard audio vs external dac vs source file?

Yes that would provide an interesting set of comparisons.

_______

 

(Although motherboard sound can provide 5.1 or more analogue output channels, I think in my testing I'd limit myself to Front Left and Front Right.)

[Guest rmpfyf]

15 hours ago, MLXXX said:

That may be your experience, rmpfyf. It isn't mine.  

 

If I find the time in coming weeks I might record the output of one of my pc's with its onboard sound and upload it (level-matched) and the source digital file, let's say with both at a 48kHz sample rate (a very common rate these days). I'd then invite forum members to express their opinions as to the extent of audible differences, e.g. "extreme", "stark", "mild", "barely noticeable".  That could be an interesting exercise.

 

Plenty of measurements abound for this sort of stuff. I can only talk to the boards I've got around here - usual Realtek IC. Even then we're down in the usual flys**t of the audibility of measurements. 

 

Perceptibly and beyond the usual people hi-fiving comments in seeming opposition to what I'd write (you know who you are) it's a stark difference over here. Feels like it' quite a difference in noise. Not surprising given what the ICs and outputs are parked next to. 

 

This said I couldn't comment to what this could be on a motherboard with a dedicated attempt to make a decent rather than functional audio output. I'd imagine there are some that are quite good/on a par with decent PCI/PCIe hardware. I use the D10's instead over USB as they're cost-effective for what they do. If a PCI or onboard option of similar performance were available, I'd use that.