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Well after much to and froing I have finally set up a system which consists of a pair of secondhand Spendor 9,Prima Luna amp Auralic G1 streamer,Gieseler Kompact dac and  all of Mike Lenehans  best cables.Unfortunately the streamer is struggling because of what appears to be  a router that is to basic.I spoke to Gareth at Auralic and he has said that the standard Telstra router needs replacing.I know nothing about routers and JB Hi Fi have too many for me to make a choice.I do not wish to spend more than necessary .I would your love your help as the wonderful system is struggling to play.I am streaming completely on Wi Fi

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Couple of questions first. Are you on NBN and is the  Telstra “router” actually a  Telstra Smart Modem? How far is the router from your music gear? I’m just wondering if you are going to get a decent

Sounds like all the same issues I'd experienced with Bluesound for the first few years, once I invested in a Google mesh router network all those problems disappeared.   Whatever Wifi equipm

Well the Telstra Smart modem has arrived and hooked up and its a new ball game ,everything is now working perfectly. What a difference ,the upload speed prior was 35 and now 55.Interestingly up until

Couple of questions first. Are you on NBN and is the  Telstra “router” actually a  Telstra Smart Modem? How far is the router from your music gear? I’m just wondering if you are going to get a decent wifi signal for your gear (Auralic Aries G1 or what?). 
 

Modem and router technology is rapidly changing and you can pay serious money for either high powered units or mesh systems that talk to each other and give you wide coverage. Assuming you’re not that far from your gear, one good solution that is not too expensive would be something like a Netgear R7000 which can be had for well under $200. It’s a solid proven unit and with good speed (AC1900). You can connect this straight to the Telstra modem and create a wifi network separate from the Telstra unit.

 

If your gear is further away or behind brick walls, than you might need a different solution.

 

 

Edited by mjs
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Thanks mjs. I dont know if it is a smart modem.We bought this house 3 years ago and the nbn just went through this area.The modem/router is in the next room,very close.The streamer itself seems to  pick up the wi fi ok.It shows that it is connected on the front display of the unit.The connection problem is between a new apple i pad that I bought specifically to operate the Auralic G1.Apparently  ipad to G1 still has to be picked via the router according to Gareth who distributes Auralic in Australia.He also tells me it wont be  a problem because of a lack of signal,it is simply a crap router.I am 67 and only myself and wife live.Apart from the auralic there could be only one or to other devices using the router,so not a busy job for a router.

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@Ian Lyons I had an Auralic Aries G2.1 and had very similar problems to you.

 

I upgraded my Telstra smart modem by adding the Netgear AC1900 router; mentioned by @mjs above, as it is recommended by Auralic as a functional and cost effective pairing.

 

But TBH it never worked well via WiFi, it basically needs to be connected to the network via cable not wifi IME. This can be done by connecting from the Auralic to the Router by cable if it is close enough and physically viable. If it is not you can use an in line connector like this;

 

https://www.jbhifi.com.au/products/d-link-powerline-av500-mini-network-starter-kit

 

If you need more info pls don’t hesitate to send me a pm, they are pretty nice sounding units, but this  is definitely a functional issue that is only likely to be resolved via the physical connection to the network based on my experience.

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Not sure if this is relevant but I still have the original Aries Femto and it’s very stable on wifi and Ethernet. It wasn’t always so, originally I always connected via wifi and my IPad would ‘lose’ the Aries and it would require a lot of turning off and on etc. to get it back. Bought a better Asus router on the recommendation of Auralic. Better sound but no more reliable.

 A mate suggested trying Ethernet and the problem went away completely. The issue was a faulty wifi module, a known issue on some of the forums. It was fixed under warranty and since then it has been very stable connected either way. 

Before lashing out on a new modem I would suggest a trying a cheap Ethernet cable and see if the connectivity issue goes away or move the router closer to the Aries to see if it is a signal strength issue. Try and work out whether it is an IPad to router or Aries to router  issue. I am surprised a new IPad has trouble connecting to even a bog standard router. 

Has it ever worked or are you still in the setting up Lightning device stage?

The Auralic online support is also worth a shot, they respond quickly and well. 

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Hmmm, I am a bit perplexed as to why the iPad is not seeing the Auralic G1, they should be on the same wifi network. As @Pebbles said, it might be useful to see if you can connect via Ethernet (might require a long Ethernet cable). If it is a Smart Modem (white, approx 100mm x 100mm x 250mm high), I would be surprised that it doesn’t work. Have you got the right wifi network name. Anyway, the Netgear router that I suggested should work fine, there are others of course from other suppliers, 

 

I have an Auralic Aries G2.1 and a Vega G2.1. The Vega is ethernet only, but I have had the Aries on wifi as well as ethernet. Wifi is more convenient of course from lack of cabling required. These are excellent units and worth setting up correctly.

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Well Christmas over and I have time now to fix my wi fi problems.I  about to buy the Ac 1900 router,but before I did I decided to look into the Telstra router that I have .It is a Gen 1 modem so they are now sending me a new Smart modem.Apparrantly after a little research there are two different smar.t modems the Technicolor and the Arcadyan.The technicolor  is supposedely the better of the two.Dont know which one I will get.At this stage I would like to stick to wi fi.Wi fi is to me an interesting topic and one that creates debate.From what can gather both have pros and cons .So for now I will wait for the new smart modem and will post my results.Cheers

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@Ian Lyons

 

If your iPad works fine for everythig else (e.g. web surfing etc) then the problem isn't there. Would recommend checking. Head to https://www.speedtest.net/, let it run on the iPad and send on the results. 

 

Getting devices mounted close to walls (like hifi gear) to work on WiFi is always inherently more of a technical challenge. Performance will vary on a number of factors that can be improved with a 'better' (many dimensions to that) wireless solution, though for the sake of clarity here - can you run (or have run) an Ethernet cable? If you can and are serious about audio, I would do so - and then never worry again.

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Even if the OP connects the Aries via Ethernet he will still need to the IPad to control it using the Auralic app over wifi. Auralic recommend wifi as the best connection, or they did for the first Aries but YMMV. 

I am surprised the IPad can’t find the Aries, this seems like a total fail rather than intermittent weak signal, is this the case?

 This may be a stupid and hopefully not offensive question but you have downloaded The Lightning DS app to your IPad and gone through the set up process? Hope you get it working.

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Sounds like all the same issues I'd experienced with Bluesound for the first few years, once I invested in a Google mesh router network all those problems disappeared.

 

Whatever Wifi equipment your provider gives you will be the absolute minimum in quality & performance to get you going, invest in a quality setup and forget about those problems.

 

You can also run two ethernet cables out from each Google mesh router, I have one router where the modem is, another in the hi-fi/tv rack so I can hardwire the streamer & tv.

 

https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B072BZ62QS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_rQZ6Fb7EHY5GF?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

https://www.jbhifi.com.au/products/d-link-covr-1103-ac1200-dual-band-mesh-wi-fi-system-3-pack?ab_version=A&gclid=CjwKCAiAxKv_BRBdEiwAyd40N_pcPBKPOVgBrBlDYP-TeRKfbeUJxvYjpCsOvhqhEaRIVB2-ZAhWiBoCq7oQAvD_BwE

 

 

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I totally agree with the above statement about provider routers being basic. Buying a quality router is a good investment. Mesh systems work well if you have double brick construction or a lot of walls for the signal to get through. We didn’t  need a mesh system so

I bought  a Netgear AX12 and it covers our whole house (about 500m2) without drama. 
We had a Netgear R7000 before the AX 12 and it was also a very reliable router with strong coverage but the AX 12 is better with a lot of connections and it’s range is better.

Edited by flamjam
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As already suggested by other,  I would first try to run a long Ethernet cable (eg 10m ) to the auralic from the current Telstra router and see if issue goes away.   
 

Then if you are not able to use a permanent Ethernet connection due to the house setup, I would then use a mesh router which has Ethernet ports in the back and place a satellite router near the auralic so you can run a short Ethernet cable and the wifi is then offloaded to the capable mesh router.

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3 hours ago, Demondes said:

As already suggested by other,  I would first try to run a long Ethernet cable (eg 10m ) to the auralic from the current Telstra router and see if issue goes away.   
 

Then if you are not able to use a permanent Ethernet connection due to the house setup, I would then use a mesh router which has Ethernet ports in the back and place a satellite router near the auralic so you can run a short Ethernet cable and the wifi is then offloaded to the capable mesh router.

 

@Ian Lyons what this guy said and a little extra. 

 

Don't try run the streamer wireless. Yes it can do it though you really don't want wireless activated at all on it from an SQ perspective. 

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Well the Telstra Smart modem has arrived and hooked up and its a new ball game ,everything is now working perfectly. What a difference ,the upload speed prior was 35 and now 55.Interestingly up until about 10 days ago I was getting upload speeds of 90 and still fighting to stream music This smart modem has certainly helped  the upload speed but I dont believe the speed has anything to do with my problem .I believe that it is to do with the technology of the router .I had a 3YO old technology  router with  brand new streamer of new technology .Standards change from what I gather thats why these modems keep being upgraded.                                                                                                                                   Now regarding ethernet I was told by Auralic that it sounds better on wi fi maybe due to noise /cable situation I dont know.Equally I have learnt from what I have read on this forum of loss of bandwidth from wi fi so  maybe at some strange I will go to the trouble of running a decent ethernet cable judge for my self the real difference. From what I have read quality of  the cable matters so I will research. I thank everyone for their help.Cheers

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1 hour ago, Ian Lyons said:

Well the Telstra Smart modem has arrived and hooked up and its a new ball game ,everything is now working perfectly. What a difference ,the upload speed prior was 35 and now 55.Interestingly up until about 10 days ago I was getting upload speeds of 90 and still fighting to stream music This smart modem has certainly helped  the upload speed but I dont believe the speed has anything to do with my problem .I believe that it is to do with the technology of the router .I had a 3YO old technology  router with  brand new streamer of new technology .Standards change from what I gather thats why these modems keep being upgraded.                                                                                                                                   Now regarding ethernet I was told by Auralic that it sounds better on wi fi maybe due to noise /cable situation I dont know.Equally I have learnt from what I have read on this forum of loss of bandwidth from wi fi so  maybe at some strange I will go to the trouble of running a decent ethernet cable judge for my self the real difference. From what I have read quality of  the cable matters so I will research. I thank everyone for their help.Cheers

 

The tech likely hasn't improved, the top end Telstra gateways are simply more fully-featured and offer more bandwidth over wireless and a bit more signal strength. Infinite signal strength on your gateway does not automatically equal better performance; what's on your devces (including your streamer) doesn't change in strength - two people at talking volume 100m away won't be able to converse if only one of them is screaming.

 

It'll be as good as the number of devices using the available bandwidth, and the bandwidth is as good as what's available for neighbouring wireless networks and the like. Your performance may be useable but ultimately transient. A cable solves all and is a worthy, cost-effective upgrade. 

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I’m no expert, but I am much more inclined to think it’s the streaming software and settings, rather than the wifi transmission bandwidth or speed.

 

I say this because I have even had apparent speed restrictions when streaming on 1G Ethernet from NAS to Oppo, when it simply couldn’t be the transmission technology being the bottleneck.

 

Diagnosing, it, however, is beyond me.

 

cheers

Grant

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2 hours ago, Grant Slack said:

Standard CAT 5 Ethernet cable

CAT 5 is obsolete .. 5E is still available but CAT 6/6a is the go and pretty cheap ... and yes there is a CAT 7 ?

 

https://planetechusa.com/demystifying-ethernet-types-difference-between-cat5e-cat-6-and-cat7/

Edited by Rosco8
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57 minutes ago, rmpfyf said:

 

CAT6 10m costs half as much, will do the same.

 

When serious have it reticulated properly in-wall - put the money there.

 

Please have a read of the spec sheet, as to the difference to say cat6 or 5 for that matter. The OP is after 15m length as well. The cost difference between the 6 and 6a is negligible. So why not grab something that’s ever so slightly better overall. Yes, even 5e will work,  but if you can purchase a 6a with all the benefits it brings at non audiophile prices then why not. 
Prior to this I needed a long run of 20m, unfortunately due to technology constraints cables4u could not guarantee the spec beyond 10m for their cat 6a, it maxed out at 10m. So I bought comsol from officeworks which was cat6. 
Very recently I found out that now you can get the 6a in 20m or longer, so I purchased it straight away. There is a difference from comsol cat6 and cables4u cat6a that I perceive. All my network cables are cat 6a now from cables4u.
Considering the lengths and the prices cables4u charges for cat 6a, I would say a great price and should be at the very least be trialed in a system to appreciate it’s benefits. 
I’m not going to go into a debate one $60 cat6a or cat6 or even 5e but at those prices with certificates of it’s actual specifications and build, I say why not. 
Neo

Edited by Neo
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15 minutes ago, Neo said:

Please have a read of the spec sheet, as to the difference to say cat6 or 5 for that matter. The OP is after 15m length as well. The cost difference between the 6 and 6a is negligible. So why not grab something that’s ever so slightly better overall. Yes, even 5e will work,  but if you can purchase a 6a with all the benefits it brings at non audiophile prices then why not. 
Prior to this I needed a long run of 20m, unfortunately due to technology constraints cables4u could not guarantee the spec beyond 10m for their cat 6a, it maxed out at 10m. So I bought comsol from officeworks which was cat6. 
Very recently I found out that now you can get the 6a in 20m or longer, so I purchased it straight away. There is a difference from comsol cat6 and cables4u cat6a that I perceive. All my network cables are cat 6a now from cables4u.
Considering the lengths and the prices cables4u charges for cat 6a, I would say a great price and should be at the very least be trialed in a system to appreciate it’s benefits. 
I’m not going to go into a debate one $60 cat6a or cat6 or even 5e but at those prices with certificates of it’s actual specifications and build, I say why not. 
Neo

 

A 15m length of 5, 5e, 6 or 6a will deliver audio streaming within spec. There is nothing the OP's router can deliver with 6a that cannot be done with 6 or 5e.

 

There is a >$20 difference (approx double the price) between them at 4Cabling, which is not 'negligible'. It is not 'ever so slightly better', it is at best 'no better' for the purpose, and on some small technical points has some potential compromises in an audiophile application. I would be reluctant to recommend STP cabling (which 4Cabling's CAT6a is) for what the OP has disclosed. Having no idea how the OP is likely to run the cable, some consideration for minimum bend radii, treatment of shielding performance and the like, a best answer or 'I'd like to try cabling' is actually CAT5e, though 4Cabling is no long offering the requisite length. 

 

In an audiophile context cabling performance requirements differ when considering stuctural cabling and patching into end devices. If one is completely detailed about picking apart audiophile peformance of wireline standards over medium to long structural distances, just use fibre. 

 

5e is completely fine for someone starting a journey to compared wired and wireless. If the OP was local I'd say 'drop by and I'll cut and terminate you something off a roll'. A 15m length of 6a is not an endgame argument or one otherwise directionally associated.

 

And happy new year.

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Hi Ian,

 

What is not straightforward about the advice you have been given to just use standard Ethernet cable? Simply go to your local supplier and ask for the standard cable that is being used by electricians to run through the walls of houses today. If he hands you CAT 5E, take it. If he hands you CAT 6, take it.

 

cheers

Grant

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I'm no audiophile, so I'm not qualified to comment on the aspects of "blackness of blacks" or the dimensions of sound stage, but I have a 35M run of Cat5E from my NAS in the house, to my bar area in my shed, and have no problems streaming flac files whilst transferring data to and from my laptop, at the same time.

Edited by bob_m_54
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@Ian Lyons in a data context even CAT5 will do it fine in the rare event you could find some, and unless the cable is subject to extreme conditions, TCP/IP will ensure the data will get there in the right order. 

 

In an audiophile context there's concern around packet timing (to which many things contribute) and noise conducted along cabling whether in active or passive conductors, or in any shielding. If your system is sensitive to these factors (e.g. if the data route pre the DAC is not completely isolated and reclocked - which is true for most DACs) then there is much to do, though reclocking is best done close to the sink in question (e.g. as close to the network interface on your streamer as possible) - in a manner providing for significant isolation  from local noise/EMI sources (including parts of your streamer) - getting data to that point is largely a matter for structural cabling, and the key concerns inherent differ.

 

Engineering an 'audiophile' Ethernet solution over a 15m length is too compromised as to be a reasonable goal. Yes, there will be some performance difference between different cables though none as significant as actually doing the job properly, which is a world removed from the suggestions made thus far, which are a similar magnitude of performance potential removed from using WiFi. 

 

In all honesty this

 

3 hours ago, bob_m_54 said:

I'm no audiophile, so I'm not qualified to comment on the aspects of "blackness of blacks" or the dimensions of sound stage, but I have a 35M run of Cat5E from my NAS in the house, to my bar area in my shed, and have no problems streaming flac files whilst transferring data to and from my laptop, at the same time.

 

Is pretty common and a lightweight application for the cable in question. 

 

In the majority of home networks you'll lose more performance in residential-grade networking equipment (routers, switches, etc) than you will in structural cabling at any rate unless some extreme compromises are made in cable installation.

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Ask @Hydrology to quote you on a bespoke high quality ( not expensive ) ethernet cables, they are supra cat8 based with telegarter connectors which are strong and connect excellently.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Eagleeyes said:

Ask @Hydrology to quote you on a bespoke high quality ( not expensive ) ethernet cables, they are supra cat8 based with telegarter connectors which are strong and connect excellently.

 

Not to offend you @Eagleeyes, however this is an excellent example of what I'd suggested in a prior post. 

 

15m of CAT8 (a standard never intended to run such distances) is not how to do it.

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Doesn't Cat8 just become an expensive Cat6A beyond the 30M max bandwidth limit?

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18 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said:

Doesn't Cat8 just become an expensive Cat6A beyond the 30M max bandwidth limit?


Technically yes. It's designed for backbone work in switch racks and the like as a more workable alternative to DACs and the like. 

 

The ideal path is 'get as little EMI and minimum degradation into your structural cabling', then 'get max shielding and signal integrity into your patch cabling' with 'keep the paths short as possible after reclocking'. 

 

If you want to go all out structurally, fibre is best, not more than UTP 6a otherwise. If you want last-word 6a, Belden 10GX is impressive. This is all secondary to routing the cable as best possble.

 

Local patching can be CAT8 though if it's downstream of a reclocker keep it very short. Those with 1m of cabling downstream of an EtherREGEN... have missed the point.

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Hi,

Auralic may have overcome the typical downsides of using wifi.

 

If not, I am surprised no one has suggested:

 

1. Ditch wifi router in favour of a 'wired' connection and Access Point for wifi

 

2  Consider using fibre instead of copper.

 

3. Consider Ubiquiti Edgerouter X SFP or Microtik CRS switches

 

Best wishes

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3 hours ago, dbastin said:

Hi,

Auralic may have overcome the typical downsides of using wifi.

 

If not, I am surprised no one has suggested:

 

1. Ditch wifi router in favour of a 'wired' connection and Access Point for wifi

 

2  Consider using fibre instead of copper.

 

3. Consider Ubiquiti Edgerouter X SFP or Microtik CRS switches

 

Best wishes

 

Reading what others have posted might alleviate your surprise, and it's unlikely Auralic have found a way to make wireless networking work without radio.

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It would be interesting to hear from G1 and G2 owners if those benefit from audiophile switches or isolators.  And if wifi enabled on G1 or G2 really is better than wired connection via a network with good (ideally 'audio grade') cabling, router and switches.

 

I suspect G1 using wifi to connect to network will be better than a typical low quality wired network connection.  But not better than a good quality network assembled with sound quality in mind.  If I am wrong, Auralic have something special.

 

I hope to test these option on a G1 soon with help from a nearby SNAer who has a G1 and claims EtherRegen made no improvement to its SQ.

 

@rmpfyf, sorry I overlooked you mentioned fibre.  However, Ubiquiti or Microtik have not been suggested.

 

For $200 or less, a router from Ubiquiti or Microtik and an Access Point from TP Link will give a very good performance, and keep wifi transmitters away from the critical network path for audio, being ... nbn box > router > endpoint.  In this critical path I suggest use LPS for router and only add devices into this path if they provide isolation from noise on the network and use LPS to power them.

 

For long runs of cable, I gather fibre will be a cost effective low noise solution compared to wire cable options.

 

For the OP  this may be of interest.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, dbastin said:

It would be interesting to hear from G1 and G2 owners if those benefit from audiophile switches or isolators.  And if wifi enabled on G1 or G2 really is better than wired connection via a network with good (ideally 'audio grade') cabling, router and switches.

 

I suspect G1 using wifi to connect to network will be better than a typical low quality wired network connection.  But not better than a good quality network assembled with sound quality in mind.  If I am wrong, Auralic have something special.

 

I hope to test these option on a G1 soon with help from a nearby SNAer who has a G1 and claims EtherRegen made no improvement to its SQ.

 

@rmpfyf, sorry I overlooked you mentioned fibre.  However, Ubiquiti or Microtik have not been suggested.

 

For $200 or less, a router from Ubiquiti or Microtik and an Access Point from TP Link will give a very good performance, and keep wifi transmitters away from the critical network path for audio, being ... nbn box > router > endpoint.  In this critical path I suggest use LPS for router and only add devices into this path if they provide isolation from noise on the network and use LPS to power them.

 

For long runs of cable, I gather fibre will be a cost effective low noise solution compared to wire cable options.

 

For the OP  this may be of interest.

 

 

 

@dbastin

 

Others also mentioned using wireless endpoints, as has network optimisation been mentioned.

 

Your mention of 'typical low quality wired' makes no sense. Wired networks are typically high quality connections compared to wireless connections. If a G1 offers indifferent performance pending network connection type, it'll have little if anything to do with the network connection. To suggest anything else is poor experimental design. I'd be keen to see quantified how a typical wired network is 'low quality' relative to a wireless connection.

 

I have Mikrotik hardware in my house and would not recommend it to the OP at this stage. Nor would Mikrotik or Ubiquiti harwdare - given their inherent design - be ultimately useful in an audiophile context with or without a LPS.

 

 

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