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Alright, I'm an old boy who likes records, cassettes & cds. But I now have hundreds of music files. I have a laptop on home wifi and a couple of DACS to play with. I burn my files to CDR & play them through the CDP. I know there are a few clever fellas out there who listen to music from their own 'cloud'. Been hearing about these things called streamers  & NAS's. Would these things make my life easier & how much do I have to spend? Thank you in advance for your wise thoughts, mikey

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Good salesmanship and promotion.  Same reasons iphone users always recommend iphones.

Exactly.... The man asked for something simple....

I saw that Audio Connection had a 20% off sale on Bluesound so I pulled the pin on the Vault 2i. Thanks kindly to everyone for their help. What a great forum!

38 minutes ago, mikey d said:

Alright, I'm an old boy who likes records, cassettes & cds. But I now have hundreds of music files. I have a laptop on home wifi and a couple of DACS to play with. I burn my files to CDR & play them through the CDP. I know there are a few clever fellas out there who listen to music from their own 'cloud'. Been hearing about these things called streamers  & NAS's. Would these things make my life easier & how much do I have to spend? Thank you in advance for your wise thoughts, mikey

 

Budget $1k for the NAS (discs included) and be happy if you spend less. 

 

Streamer, well, sky's the limit. Best to set a budget.

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Yes, sky’s the limit for streamers (I’ve spent far more than I intended, but am enjoying it). Bluesound Node 2i seems best bang for buck at about a grand!

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16 minutes ago, mikey d said:

From where does one purchase said NAS? 

 

Any decent computer stockist - MWave is pretty decent. I'd get a two-bay Synology with a lot of grunt, and stretch to a four-bay unit if you can. Two hard disks, NAS-spec. 

 

16 minutes ago, mikey d said:

Are there audiophile grade items?

 

 

Only if you believe there are also audiophile internet connections i.e. that's not how networking works. 

 

If you want to do something 'audiophile' about your networking then there's kit that'll work, but you'll want it far upstream of your NAS and right next to your streamer. 

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7 minutes ago, mikey d said:

Does this type of rig compete with the physical media?

Hey Mickey, streaming music can be from a NAS or from the internet, both can compete with and sometimes better physical media. I’m just a short drive away if you want to hear what streaming can sound like 😃

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Just be aware that a NAS is normally just a repository for (in this case) digital music files, it can store other media if course. The point being you need a means of playing the files, or getting them off the NAS into a DAC then into amp/speakers/headphones. There are a number of ways to skin the cat, you could use some software like Audirvana to play the files. You could also use a streaming device, of which there are many options. You might choose to use server software like a generic UPnP /DLNA server which might come with the NAS or might be a third party application like MinimServer. Your streamer might be able to “serve” the files on its own without particular server software. 
in terms of a streamer, I mentioned the Bluesound Node 2i in an earlier post, this is a good value pretty good quality solution for about a grand. It has digital and analog outputs to feed either a DAC or an amp. There are other solutions at a lower price point and plenty at a much higher price point, like Cambridge, Lumin, Matrix Audio, Auralic etc.

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Of course, once you have the streamer setup, you normally have access to streaming music services such as Tidal and Qobuz, Roon is another software solution which is arguably complex and simple at the same time. Roon can serve your files and stream them to any compatible device, streamer, DAC or even wireless speakers.

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Best solution I can suggest is that to use a NAS which supports ROON, and you get quite good experience you can expect, you can find information below:

 

https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/roon-server-on-nas

 

but be mindful that you need a decent NAS to run it. To put it simple: NAS is just a computer with specially developped open source operating systems that support handy functions for Mass storage of data. So NAS is not the only option that you can choose as the more powerful NAS can cost a lot itself, and you need to buy the hard drives.

 

What I am doing now (just for your reference):

 

Running a Mac mini (totally silent, fanless) with ROON installed on it and linked it to my intranet, with a 8T external hard drive attached. (I have 6T, 6000 Gb HIFI music files, DSD, FLAC, etc. so more than 1 hard drive is overkill for me.

 

THe mac mini is connected to the router which I also connect to my streamer.

 

Then streamter to Pre Amp, and Amp, etc. etc.

 

You can replace the Mac Mini with Nuc with AMD processor such as this one:

 

https://www.mwave.com.au/product/asus-vivomini-pb50-barebone-kit-amd-ryzen-5-3550h-ac27792

 

The Nuc,  which includes a AMD Ryzen 5 3550h, is a 4 cores 8 threads CPU, farily powerful, add $100 for 8 Gb ram and a second handed 64 Gb SSD for operating system.  

 

The benefit of this solution is that, you still get the storage and Roon, and the Nuc computer can easily handle a instance of Jriver media server also, furthermore it can support 4k 120 hz video output, so you can have a independent Media Center PC on it for Video.

 

 

 

 

Edited by thundom
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Thanks for your advice guys but I am easily confused. I am not really interested in streaming per say, eg spotify or tidal. I just want to be able to play my WAV & flac files simply. I was wondering whether something like this would suit my needs,  https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/collections/network-audio-streamers/products/bryston-bdp-pi-digital-player

Edited by mikey d
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11 hours ago, mikey d said:

Would these things make my life easier

 

Not really.   If you have enough storage space on your laptop, and are happy using it as the player..... then why change?

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9 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

 

Not really.   If you have enough storage space on your laptop, and are happy using it as the player..... then why change?

Hey Dave, I don't really have room on the lappie. I use a squeezebox, (into DAC), to play files through but am not happy with it. It connects wirelessly from my lappie using files on a USB drive. I was just figuring that if I had a player that I could plug my files into via USB then wired into DAC/amp. Trying to keep it simple.

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2 hours ago, mikey d said:

Thanks for your advice guys but I am easily confused. I am not really interested in streaming per say, eg spotify or tidal. I just want to be able to play my WAV & flac files simply. I was wondering whether something like this would suit my needs,  https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/collections/network-audio-streamers/products/bryston-bdp-pi-digital-player

 

Sure, though appreciate that a streamer can only do the following:

  • Let you pick your tunes
  • Try to get the bits representing them to the DAC with as little jitter as possible (though arguably the 'ultimate' place to do this is in your DAC)

 

Most tend to be some form of computer with some audiophile sprinkles. That Bryston box, f'rinstance, is a lot of money for a Raspberry Pi (what's inside). It really depends how much of this you want to do yourself - if you're comfortable getting your hands dirty, a simple PC will some adept configuration will do. 

 

The first part (picking your tunes) you've some flexibility whether you want to do it on the device (as in 'plug that thing into a TV/monitor, give it a keyboard and mouse and scroll through') or remotely (e.g. 'I log into my audiophile thing with a phone/tablet/other computer and control it that way'). Results are usually better working remotely, though there are ways to make the former work just fine.

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2 hours ago, mikey d said:

was just figuring that if I had a player that I could plug my files into via USB then wired into DAC/amp. Trying to keep it simple.

 

 

People do tend to make it confusing.  It's because so many have had different experiences, and all draw their own (not always correct for other people) conclusions about how to do it.

 

I run a simple computer with player software with attached USB storage.  It happens to be a raspberry pi running moode, but could be any computer and your favourite music player software.    I can mount a NAS drive and play music from that if I want. I don't call this streaming btw, but some seem to.  It's really just an externally mounted network-attached drive.  The disadvantage of the NAS is that power outages etc can sometimes cause the loss of connection, sometimes requiring reboots to get it all working again.

 

  Either way sounds the same  btw, so if you want to use a local USB drive - do it. 

 

This same setup can also stream internet radio, and act as upnp/dlna device, play music via bluetooth, and other things like spotify etc.

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It can be as simple as storing and serving your files from a NAS, and playing them direct to your amplifier, if it has network streaming integration. That's what I was doing before I had any dedicated streamers.

 

Or it can be as cheap as storing files on an external USB drive, and feeding it into a streamer/ DAC, like a Raspberry Pi setup, or a Pro-Ject Streambox, if your amp doesn't have digital input.

 

What amplifier are you currently using, that you want to play your music files through?

 

Edit:

This is admittedly not an audiophile approach, but what I have done so far.

 

My first setup
[files stored on original X-Box played via XBMC (KODI)]---analog-->[vintage Marantz amp]

Then
[files stored NAS]----->[Original X-Box played via XBMP]---analog-->[vintage Marantz amp]

Then
[files stored on NAS]----->[Yamaha RX-V1071] and also [files stored on NAS]----->[Yamaha RX-A820]

Then
[files stored on NAS]----->[Raspberry Pi with DAC]---analog-->[Yamaha RX-V1071]

Then
[files stored on NAS]----->[Raspberry Pi with Digital output board]---dig-->[Schiit Modi 3 DAC]---analog-->[Yamaha RX-V1071]

And
[files stored on NAS]----->[Pro-Ject Streambox DS+]---analog-->[Yamaha RX-A820]

Edited by bob_m_54
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Most of the time I just play CDs, with playback being via an OPPO 103 blu-ray player ==> CA DacMagic ==> Musical Fidelity M5si ==> VAF i91's.

 

The OPPO 103 is connected to my LAN (wired), so I also use it to play audio (and video) files stored on my PC. I also have a couple of hard drives connected to the OPPO via USB, which I play files from as well.

 

So, in this case the OPPO 103 is acting both as a CD transport and file server into my audio system. Fairly simple, and works well for me.

 

(I also use it to play Blu-Ray discs of course, but that is through a separate playback chain to different amp and speakers.)

 

I think one thing to bear in mind is not to get confused between the method of delivery and the method of reproduction. (I haven't delved into NAS devices and streamers though, so don't really have any experience with those.)

 

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3 hours ago, mikey d said:

Hey Dave, I don't really have room on the lappie. I use a squeezebox, (into DAC), to play files through but am not happy with it. It connects wirelessly from my lappie using files on a USB drive. I was just figuring that if I had a player that I could plug my files into via USB then wired into DAC/amp. Trying to keep it simple.

Try a BlueSound Vault then. Plug a USB drive into the back of it and you can then either use it as a network transport (with digital out to your DAC of choice) or as a streaming DAC

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2 hours ago, BugPowderDust said:

Try a BlueSound Vault then. Plug a USB drive into the back of it and you can then either use it as a network transport (with digital out to your DAC of choice) or as a streaming DAC

That does look like the sort of machine that would sort me out.

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6 hours ago, mikey d said:

Hey Dave, I don't really have room on the lappie. I use a squeezebox, (into DAC), to play files through but am not happy with it. It connects wirelessly from my lappie using files on a USB drive. I was just figuring that if I had a player that I could plug my files into via USB then wired into DAC/amp. Trying to keep it simple.

Hi Mikey, just check whether your DAC supports USB port for external hard drive. A lot of them does. Then all you need is a USB drive.

 

I am using lumin d2, you can also have a look at it if budget allows, or lumin t2, even better DAC in build with better sound stage and more forward treble.

 

also here is a good video for your reference.

 

https://youtu.be/fjomSV4snEY

 

Edited by thundom
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3 hours ago, bob_m_54 said:

It can be as simple as storing and serving your files from a NAS, and playing them direct to your amplifier, if it has network streaming integration. That's what I was doing before I had any dedicated streamers.

 

Or it can be as cheap as storing files on an external USB drive, and feeding it into a streamer/ DAC, like a Raspberry Pi setup, or a Pro-Ject Streambox, if your amp doesn't have digital input.

 

What amplifier are you currently using, that you want to play your music files through?

 

Edit:

This is admittedly not an audiophile approach, but what I have done so far.

 

My first setup
[files stored on original X-Box played via XBMC (KODI)]---analog-->[vintage Marantz amp]

Then
[files stored NAS]----->[Original X-Box played via XBMP]---analog-->[vintage Marantz amp]

Then
[files stored on NAS]----->[Yamaha RX-V1071] and also [files stored on NAS]----->[Yamaha RX-A820]

Then
[files stored on NAS]----->[Raspberry Pi with DAC]---analog-->[Yamaha RX-V1071]

Then
[files stored on NAS]----->[Raspberry Pi with Digital output board]---dig-->[Schiit Modi 3 DAC]---analog-->[Yamaha RX-V1071]

And
[files stored on NAS]----->[Pro-Ject Streambox DS+]---analog-->[Yamaha RX-A820]

What I suggest is to transfer music through network by roon on nas, roon has its own way of transferring music data, which provide much better quality , too much distortion transferring data through wifi.

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23 minutes ago, thundom said:

What I suggest is to transfer music through network by roon on nas, roon has its own way of transferring music data, which provide much better quality , too much distortion transferring data through wifi.

 

Do you mean wifi or ethernet?  I thought that's what Roon used.

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2 hours ago, aussievintage said:

 

Do you mean wifi or ethernet?  I thought that's what Roon used.

You can use either, but of course Ethernet is better. :)

 

roon detect service by ip not correction type.

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26 minutes ago, thundom said:

You can use either, but of course Ethernet is better. :)

 

roon detect service by ip not correction type.

 

 

So how can you say roon is better and has less distortion than wifi, when roon uses wifi?

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8 hours ago, mikey d said:

Alright, I'm an old boy who likes records, cassettes & cds. But I now have hundreds of music files. I have a laptop on home wifi and a couple of DACS to play with. I burn my files to CDR & play them through the CDP. I know there are a few clever fellas out there who listen to music from their own 'cloud'. Been hearing about these things called streamers  & NAS's. Would these things make my life easier & how much do I have to spend? Thank you in advance for your wise thoughts, mikey

 

before you can use NAS you need streamer (unless you wanna use your laptop as music player) so I would start with that...

something like Auralic aries mini if you can find one or Bluesound node 2i (no usb out) followed by Lumin U1 mini (relatively expensive) considering you wanna use your external DACs, otherwise streamers with built in DACs are available as well such as CXN V2 etc...

all of them support external USB hard drives, some of them even internal so first check what's size of your music collection, in case your collection is already large enough only then start to think about NAS, of course NAS provide much more features like music/movies server, network shared storage and many more but also cost some investments 

 

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8 hours ago, thundom said:

What I suggest is to transfer music through network by roon on nas, roon has its own way of transferring music data, which provide much better quality , too much distortion transferring data through wifi.

I think you are quoting the wrong person.

I'm not using WiFi to transfer files.

Edited by bob_m_54
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Wondering what the exact problem is

 

Quote

I use a squeezebox, (into DAC), to play files through but am not happy with it. It connects wirelessly from my lappie using files on a USB drive. I was just figuring that if I had a player that I could plug my files into via USB then wired into DAC/amp. Trying to keep it simple.

 

I've just shipped a Squeezebox Touch to the UK for a friend whose Squeezebox Touch died. It's a perfectly satisfactory device that has endured a decade.  I'm not seeing the problem:

     - You make no mention of dropouts or timing issues, or distortion, or other musical issues. So no problem there. This is not a clock or timing or synchronization or buffer issue.

     - Your laptop is working fine as the head to the headless Squeezebox Touch. So no problem there. This is not a software or integration issue.

 

My best guess

 

It seems to me you just want the Squeezebox Touch to be able to access more files than is available on a USB drive's limited storage.

 

Is this the problem?

 

What is the current USB storage, eg are you using a 3 terabyte portable hard drive and is it too small?

 

Where is the current USB storage plugged into - the laptop, the squeezebox touch, or somewhere else?

 

 

It might be this

 

Or do you want to stop using the laptop for music-related purposes, and therefore are considering removing the laptop from the chain of components? If so, why?

 

Maybe it could be

 

Or are you wanting to get rid of the Squeezebox Touch? Again, if so, what does success look like?

 

 

At the moment, you appear to be saying you have a storage problem and as a result you are not happy with the streaming device. You have received advice in this thread about changing your streamer, but that advice might not solve your storage problem.

 

Edited by ThirdDrawerDown
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7 hours ago, ThirdDrawerDown said:

You are not clear on your problem.

 

You need to say what your problem is.

 

 

I've just shipped a Squeezebox Touch to the UK for a friend whose Squeezebox Touch died. It's a perfectly satisfactory device that has endured a decade.  I'm not seeing the problem:

     - You make no mention of dropouts or timing issues, or distortion, or other musical issues. So no problem there. This is not a clock or timing or synchronization or buffer issue.

     - Your laptop is working fine as the head to the headless Squeezebox Touch. So no problem there. This is not a software or integration issue.

 

My best guess

 

It seems to me you just want the Squeezebox Touch to be able to access more files than is available on a USB drive's limited storage.

 

Is this the problem?

 

What is the current USB storage, eg are you using a 3 terabyte portable hard drive and is it too small?

 

Where is the current USB storage plugged into - the laptop, the squeezebox touch, or somewhere else?

 

 

It might be this

 

Or do you want to stop using the laptop for music-related purposes, and therefore are considering removing the laptop from the chain of components? If so, why?

 

Maybe it could be

 

Or are you wanting to get rid of the Squeezebox Touch? Again, why?

 

 

At the moment, you appear to be saying you have a storage problem and therefore are not happy with the streaming device. You have received advice in this thread about changing your streamer, but that advice might not solve your storage problem.

 

 

I have not been able to get the full potential out of the Sqeexebox Touch. I used to be able to put a USB syick into the back of it & play files that way. Can't any more for some reason. I can use the stick into the lappie & wifi to the ST. That works fine. But yes, I do want to take the lappie out of the chain.

 

My ideal would be a Antipodes Audio server but it's a bit out of my price range.

 

I've figured that the NAS & streamer is probably not the way I want to go.

 

The suggestion of a Bluesound Vault 2i looks more like the machine that would serve my purposes.

 

I'm not really interested in streaming from the internet although being able to listen to Bandcamp stuff before I buy & download would be cool.

 

I thank everyone for their thoughts & wish all a happy & peaceful yuletide.

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Vault 2i looks like it integrates storage (inbuilt NAS) and provides a player (in-system streaming) function. It also allows for external NAS to be connected, which means you won't run out of storage room in the 2TB memory. Looks a good option.

 

Cheapest option would be to use an old laptop devoted to music only, and use your existing configuration. You could plug several portable hard drives of storage into the laptop.

 

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6 hours ago, mikey d said:

My ideal would be a Antipodes Audio server but it's a bit out of my price range.

They have some new entry units. Is this out of your price range?  What is max budget?

https://sonicpurity.com.au/store/music-servers-and-streaming/antipodes-s30

 

6 hours ago, mikey d said:

I've figured that the NAS & streamer is probably not the way I want to go.

I suspect you do not want the added complexity of setting up a NAS?  You can still go streamer with USB stick/drive.

6 hours ago, mikey d said:

The suggestion of a Bluesound Vault 2i looks more like the machine that would serve my purposes.

BluOS (from BlueSound) is probably the easiest to set up and use, with an excellent App first phone and tablet. It is also regularly updated.

 

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On 24/12/2020 at 5:45 PM, aussievintage said:

 

 

So how can you say roon is better and has less distortion than wifi, when roon uses wifi?

Please read documents on roon website.  I don't want to bother to just repost as I believe you are not illiterate.

 

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Just now, thundom said:

 

Huh.  I was never confused, but you are obscuring the issue and confusing technologies.

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12 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

 

Huh.  I was never confused, but you are obscuring the issue and confusing technologies.

No you don't understand what you are talking about, I understand.

 

Merry Christmas and stop the naive reply.

Edited by thundom
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Just now, thundom said:

No you don't understand what you are talking about, I understand tho, old x can't learn new things.

 

Merry Christmas and stop the naive reply.

 

OK, I DID tell you to forget it.

 

Remember the rule of holes....

Edited by aussievintage
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8 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

 

OK, I DID tell you to forget it.

 

Remember the rule of holes....

Yeah and I did tell you Merry Christmas, you didn't greet back.

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