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Stacking dac and amp - is it safe?


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Hey guys

i was wondering if it is safe (due to its weight and temperature) to put an amp on top of a DAC.

 

As shown on the photo, Schiit Mjolnir 2 on top of Schiit Yggdrasil

cheers :) 

65E416B5-5E93-4D33-9B69-84006256D05D.jpeg

BA23F7C8-DCD0-470F-A944-297815A42625.jpeg

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I would suggest having at least an inch between the components, more if they get warm to hot and/or have ventilation slots in the top of the case (esp. the one on the bottom). 

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other than ventilation issues, the other significant problem is magnetic field interference.

 

amplifiers with chunky linear power supplies, or tube amps with heavy output transformers tend to generate more intense magnetic fields, which in turn, induce surrounding audio components, and cablings that are in close proximity to generate opposing magnetic fields of their own, causing detriment to each other's timbral and soundstaging capabilities.

 

MFI can only be alleviated by increasing physical distances between components, the cablings and minimising the use of extraneous metallic objects around the audio components.

 

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50 minutes ago, audiofeline said:

I would suggest having at least an inch between the components, more if they get warm to hot and/or have ventilation slots in the top of the case (esp. the one on the bottom). 

Thank you so much for the reply.

is this ok now? Cheers :) 

i dont think it will fall hmmm...

B7494A9E-D3CB-45C2-9B56-87A193C0626F.jpeg

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4 minutes ago, jeromelang said:

other than ventilation issues, the other significant problem is magnetic field interference.

 

amplifiers with chunky linear power supplies, or tube amps with heavy output transformers tend to generate more intense magnetic fields, which in turn, induce surrounding audio components, and cablings that are in close proximity to generate opposing magnetic fields of their own, causing detriment to each other's timbral and soundstaging capabilities.

 

MFI can only be alleviated by increasing physical distances between components, the cablings and minimising the use of extraneous metallic objects around the audio components.

 

thank you for the reply.

can you please refer to what I did above?

would that minimize the issue/concern you shared?

thanks 

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12 minutes ago, Klaus220 said:

Thank you so much for the reply.

is this ok now? Cheers :)    i dont think it will fall hmmm...

[see above for the posted pic]

From a spacing point of view it looks OK now.  You might consider upgrading the plastic bottles so they are less likely to scratch, eg. by putting a piece of felt or cork on them (I assume they have the lid on).  A spray paint of black would also make them look less obtrusive (a light sandpapering first will stop the writing from being noticeable).

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Just now, audiofeline said:

From a spacing point of view it looks OK now.  You might consider upgrading the plastic bottles so they are less likely to scratch, eg. by putting a piece of felt or cork on them (I assume they have the lid on).  A spray paint of black would also make them look less obtrusive (a light sandpapering first will stop the writing from being noticeable).

thank you, I better stop using it now, then go to buy something proper (maybe another rack?) tomorrow. :) 

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Just now, Klaus220 said:

thank you, I better stop using it now, then go to buy something proper (maybe another rack?) tomorrow. :) 

What you have is OK, I've used similar workarounds before.  You can take your time to find a good spacer or to upgrade your "temp" to be more permanent.  A couple of strips or four blocks of wood can be alternate methods, painted black or stained and varnished. 

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1 minute ago, audiofeline said:

What you have is OK, I've used similar workarounds before.  You can take your time to find a good spacer or to upgrade your "temp" to be more permanent.  A couple of strips or four blocks of wood can be alternate methods, painted black or stained and varnished. 

oh ok, the jars/containers I am using has lids so I don't think they will scratch the unit but may leave some marks.

I wonder where I can go to buy a spacer, could you please recommend me one? (oh but I live in NSW....) 

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As well as the matter of magnetic interference there is the potential for other interference such as resonance.  The ideal objective would be to keep everything separate and on their own respective isolation devices.  However, that is not always possible due to various constraints such as space.  I have a Streamer on top of a DSP player on top of a DAC.  Not Ideal.

 

 

Besides separation I would suggest that the white plastic containers are probably close to useless in the context of isolation.  You could consider various isolation devices from the not expensive through to some that may cost more than you components.  Quality costs.  Start low and work up.

John

Edited by Assisi
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You probably can't buy one, but repurpose something else, or make them yourself.  The isolation devices sold in audio stores are more replacement feet than ventilation spacers. 

 

If you're not very "handy", you could ask a friend who is handy to make something for you or to improve what you have. 

But a tin of black matt spray is only a few dollars from Bunnings, and you can buy adhesive felt and other similar stuff in the "surface protection" section, to improve the aesthetics of your jars.  It's not rocket science.

And, if you don't really care what it looks like, you can live with what you have. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Assisi said:

As well as the matter of magnetic interference there is the potential for other interference such as resonance.  The ideal objective would be to keep everything separate and on their own respective isolation devices.  However, that is not always possible due to various constraints such as space.  I have a Streamer on top of a DSP player on top of a DAC.  Not Ideal.

 

 

Besides separation I would suggest that the white plastic containers are probably close to useless in the context of isolation.  You could consider various isolation devices from the not expensive through to some that may cost more than you components.  Quality costs.  Start low and work up.

John

Hello John,

 

thank you so much for your reply.

 

I see, I better look into them :) 

thank you!

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1 minute ago, audiofeline said:

You probably can't buy one, but repurpose something else, or make them yourself.  The isolation devices sold in audio stores are more replacement feet than ventilation spacers. 

 

If you're not very "handy", you could ask a friend who is handy to make something for you or to improve what you have. 

But a tin of black matt spray is only a few dollars from Bunnings, and you can buy adhesive felt and other similar stuff in the "surface protection" section, to improve the aesthetics of your jars.  It's not rocket science.

And, if you don't really care what it looks like, you can live with what you have. 

 

 

hey thank you for the support :)  

 

oh yep :( I think I may be one of the least handy person lol 

oh! Bunnings! yes! silly me lol

cool, I will try there tomorrow.

 

wouldn't white plastic jars leave marks on the unit though :( ?

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Just now, Klaus220 said:

hey thank you for the support :)  

oh yep :( I think I may be one of the least handy person lol 

oh! Bunnings! yes! silly me lol   cool, I will try there tomorrow.

wouldn't white plastic jars leave marks on the unit though :( ?

A lot of people who are not confident doing small jobs find that it's easier than they think when they start.  Especially now there is a DIY youtube for just about everything these days!  Don't be afraid to try, esp. on something small like this, you have very little to loose if you make mistakes (which is also how we learn).  An old friend of mine thought he was the "least handy person", and wanted an extra shelf in his TV cabinet.  He spent a lot of time telling me how and why he couldn't do it, but I gave him instructions and a few weeks later he came back telling me how easy it was and how great it looks!  Have some confidence in yourself! 

 

The plastic jars might create marks or scrape marks on the paintwork if the units are bumped, that's why I'm suggesting having some protection on it.  Another idea for surface protection is to cut eyeglass cleaning cloth, and double-sided tape it to your jars.  It doesn't matter what colour it is, it's not going to be seen.      

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2 minutes ago, audiofeline said:

A lot of people who are not confident doing small jobs find that it's easier than they think when they start.  Especially now there is a DIY youtube for just about everything these days!  Don't be afraid to try, esp. on something small like this, you have very little to loose if you make mistakes (which is also how we learn).  An old friend of mine thought he was the "least handy person", and wanted an extra shelf in his TV cabinet.  He spent a lot of time telling me how and why he couldn't do it, but I gave him instructions and a few weeks later he came back telling me how easy it was and how great it looks!  Have some confidence in yourself! 

 

The plastic jars might create marks or scrape marks on the paintwork if the units are bumped, that's why I'm suggesting having some protection on it.  Another idea for surface protection is to cut eyeglass cleaning cloth, and double-sided tape it to your jars.  It doesn't matter what colour it is, it's not going to be seen.      

that's very kind of you, very nice thing to say :) 

ok, I will watch some videos on Youtube and give it a shot :)  

oh yes! cleaning cloth, great idea, I will try this now hahaha

 

thank you so much!

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11 minutes ago, Klaus220 said:

Hello John,

 

thank you so much for your reply.

 

I see, I better look into them :) 

thank you!

There are two matters under consideration.  Do you just want to separate the components or also maybe improve the sound quality.  If it is the latter than you need to consider isolation devices.  I have boxes of "things" that I have tried.  It can be long and interesting journey but if you get the synergy right the benefits can be significant.

John

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20 minutes ago, Assisi said:

There are two matters under consideration.  Do you just want to separate the components or also maybe improve the sound quality.  If it is the latter than you need to consider isolation devices.  I have boxes of "things" that I have tried.  It can be long and interesting journey but if you get the synergy right the benefits can be significant.

John

thank you for the reply again John.

 

can you please show me some photos of the isolation devices?

 

thank you :) 

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18 minutes ago, Klaus220 said:

thank you for the reply again John.

can you please show me some photos of the isolation devices?

thank you :) 

There are hundreds of isolation devices, ranging from cheap to very expensive, and ranging in effectiveness from snake oil to miracle-making - noting that effectiveness does depend on your equipment and situation, and the interaction with the (hopefully quality) isolation device.

 

A cheap isolation device that has made improvements for many (but not all) is the White's anti-vibration pads, in Bunnings for a few dollars.  For the price it's worth getting some to try, and you can try them under other components and speakers. 

 

There is a thread on SNA on them.  Then there are DIY and marketed products like spring-based devices, rubber compounds (incl. sorbothane) , spikes ( coupler? I get the names confused), squash balls, inner tubes, and so on.  There are lots of threads here and on other audio forums, and many opposing and passionate opinions come out. 

 

It's a minefield, and the only way to determine what's best for you is to try, which is why John probably has so many.  I'll leave it to him to elaborate.

 

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10 minutes ago, audiofeline said:

There are hundreds of isolation devices, ranging from cheap to very expensive, and ranging in effectiveness from snake oil to miracle-making - noting that effectiveness does depend on your equipment and situation, and the interaction with the (hopefully quality) isolation device.

 

A cheap isolation device that has made improvements for many (but not all) is the White's anti-vibration pads, in Bunnings for a few dollars.  For the price it's worth getting some to try, and you can try them under other components and speakers. 

 

There is a thread on SNA on them.  Then there are DIY and marketed products like spring-based devices, rubber compounds (incl. sorbothane) , spikes ( coupler? I get the names confused), squash balls, inner tubes, and so on.  There are lots of threads here and on other audio forums, and many opposing and passionate opinions come out. 

 

It's a minefield, and the only way to determine what's best for you is to try, which is why John probably has so many.  I'll leave it to him to elaborate.

 

wow nice, I will look into them.

 

the rack I have is an audiophile rack, so I think it helps a bit though.

 

thank you so much for your help I really appreciate it :) 

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Love the plastic jars in a go-for-it DIY solution to a problem, but there are better and easier ways that are very cheap.   Go to Bunnings and buy the White's black rubber squares ( anti-vibration pads used under washing machines that cost about $6 for a 4 pack )and then to Ikea to get the Amazingly cheap BAMBOO cutting board ( the 35mm@45mm that is 30mm thick ). Put the pads down then the cutting board on top. I would go 1 step further and put some stick-on small cone feet on the bottom of both components and bed these into perspex offcuts.   Please go to the SNA Forums here on DIY isolation for some amazing tips and advice..... it really is a lot of fun and can VERy SIGNIFICANTLY improve the sound of your system.......   the cheapest and quite often the best audio upgrade you can do.. I have perspex / acrylic and sharp cones under everything ..... amp, streamer, DAC, power supplies and especially my speakers on an old wooden floor. 

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Isolation to me is about the reduction of physical vibrations or resonance or RFI and EMI.  The problems can be everywhere in a system and you can hear it in the final result coming out of your speakers.  Good isolation products can provide significant improvement in the listening experience with the resulting reduction in noise floor.  Once you hear and appreciate a reduction in noise all you want is more of the same.   For me an example of resonance is what happens when the power goes through the power plugs.  I have devices to mitigate the problem and I consider that there is a minor SQ benefit.

 

 

Many of the comments above from both @audiofeline and @mfforever    have some merit.  However, when one wants to get serious about isolation and components, what one can get from the likes of Bunnings, Clark Rubber or Ikea and others will in my experience provide little or no benefit.  Nevertheless, it can be beneficial to try some of what has been mentioned so that you can have a bench mark on which to develop the knowledge of what will or not work for you.  As I said I have boxes of stuff from all of these companies. 

 

 

As well as what has been mentioned you can try amongst other things squash balls, super balls, small partially inflated inner tubes, pieces of sorbathane, ball bearings and bamboo pucks, corks and or springs.  Interestingly properly set up and calibrated springs can provide a serious outcome.  The set up with right spring oscillation is the trick though.

 

 

There are threads on SNA that discuss the more serious products.  Also, on SNA in the FS forum often isolation products are offered for sale.  Many audio companies manufacture isolation products ranging from the low-end Herbies to the very serious and expensive Still Points or Finite Elemente.  My advice is start simple get experience and work up as funds permit.  All my components are on at least one isolation device and in some cases 2 or even 3.

 

John

Edited by Assisi
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6 hours ago, mfforever said:

Love the plastic jars in a go-for-it DIY solution to a problem, but there are better and easier ways that are very cheap.   Go to Bunnings and buy the White's black rubber squares ( anti-vibration pads used under washing machines that cost about $6 for a 4 pack )and then to Ikea to get the Amazingly cheap BAMBOO cutting board ( the 35mm@45mm that is 30mm thick ). Put the pads down then the cutting board on top. I would go 1 step further and put some stick-on small cone feet on the bottom of both components and bed these into perspex offcuts.   Please go to the SNA Forums here on DIY isolation for some amazing tips and advice..... it really is a lot of fun and can VERy SIGNIFICANTLY improve the sound of your system.......   the cheapest and quite often the best audio upgrade you can do.. I have perspex / acrylic and sharp cones under everything ..... amp, streamer, DAC, power supplies and especially my speakers on an old wooden floor. 

LOL haha thank you.

White's black rubber squares? do you know the exact name for them? I can't find them online somehow :(  

thank you so much!

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3 minutes ago, Assisi said:

Isolation to me is about the reduction of physical vibrations or resonance or RFI and EMI.  The problems can be everywhere in a system and you can hear it in the final result coming out of your speakers.  Good isolation products can provide significant improvement in the listening experience with the resulting reduction in noise floor.  Once you hear and appreciate a reduction in noise all you want is more of the same.   For me an example of resonance is what happens when the power goes through the power plugs.  I have devices to mitigate the problem and I consider that there is a minor SQ benefit.

 

 

Many of the comments above from both @audiofeline and @mfforever    have some merit.  However, when one wants to get serious about isolation and components, what one can get from the likes of Bunnings, Clark Rubber or Ikea and others will in my experience provide little or no benefit.  Nevertheless, it can be beneficial to try some of what has been mentioned so that you can have a bench mark on which to develop the knowledge of what will or not work for you.  As I said I have boxes of stuff from all of these companies. 

 

 

As well as what has been mentioned you can try amongst other things squash balls, super balls, small partially inflated inner tubes, pieces of sorbathane, ball bearings and bamboo pucks, corks and or springs.  Interestingly properly set up and calibrated springs can provide a serious outcome.  The set up with right spring oscillation is the trick though.

 

 

There are threads on SNA that discuss the more serious products.  Also, on SNA in the FS forum often isolation products are offered for sale.  Many audio companies manufacture isolation products ranging from the low-end Herbies to the very serious and expensive Still Points or Finite Elemente.  My advice is start simple get experience and work up as funds permit.  All my components are on at least one isolation device and in some cases 2 or even 3.

 

John

nice, it's always good to learn from wise audiophile fellows :)  

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1 hour ago, Klaus220 said:

LOL haha thank you.

White's black rubber squares? do you know the exact name for them? I can't find them online somehow :(  

thank you so much!

 

Whites 50 x 50 x 12mm Anti Vibration Squares - 8 Pack ... $4.40 (Dec 2020)

https://www.bunnings.com.au/whites-50-x-50-x-12mm-anti-vibration-squares-8-pack_p3961977

 

The Whites anti-vibration rubber comes in other sizes as well.  You will need about four or five pads to build up to the height of your pill containers. 

 

5a783afb-1c59-41a5-97dd-fc1259ff2d09.png

 

Edited by audiofeline
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On 17/12/2020 at 10:56 PM, audiofeline said:

 

Whites 50 x 50 x 12mm Anti Vibration Squares - 8 Pack ... $4.40 (Dec 2020)

https://www.bunnings.com.au/whites-50-x-50-x-12mm-anti-vibration-squares-8-pack_p3961977

 

The Whites anti-vibration rubber comes in other sizes as well.  You will need about four or five pads to build up to the height of your pill containers. 

 

5a783afb-1c59-41a5-97dd-fc1259ff2d09.png

 

 

I use one row of these in between the DAC/ amp that's plenty for ventilation and serves the purpose for isolation as well as preventing scratching the top of the component, I've also found these work quite well under speakers in between their stands might not be doing anything but I read that speaker boxes that resonate should be allowed to do so on all of their sides including the bottom and it does seem to change the sound for the better probably the cheapest tweak at $4 a packet I've ever tried and happy with it.

Edited by BATMAQN
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4 minutes ago, BATMAQN said:

 

I use one row of these in between the DAC/ amp that's plenty for ventilation and serves the purpose for isolation as well as preventing scratching the top of the component, I've also found these work quite well under speakers in between their stands might not be doing anything but I read that speaker boxes that resonate should be allowed to do so on all of their sides including the bottom and it does seem to change the sound for the better probably the cheapest tweak at $4 a packet I've ever tried and happy with it.

I'm not sure where you read that speaker boxes should be able to resonate, as this is the hallmark of a poorly built cabinet.  When I had cheaper speakers I would dismantle them and insert internal bracing to minimse this.  But putting speakers on stands, pads, spikes, etc. are proven methods to improve the sound from the boxes.  I'm pleased to hear that you feel that you have got your value from the Whites pads.  Improving hifi performance doesn't always need to break the bank! 

 

 

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Does anyone where can I get custom wooden rack for this size of amp?

Most of hifi racks I've seen are for home theater amp and therefore too large for headphone amps.

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12 hours ago, lycos said:

Does anyone where can I get custom wooden rack for this size of amp?

Most of hifi racks I've seen are for home theater amp and therefore too large for headphone amps.

Check Selby, they may have something of appropriate size in their range.

 

You could make something yourself, if you are handy.  I'm not sure the size of your amp, but you might be able to get a bamboo chopping block in an appropriate size from Ikea or Bunnings.  If you find something too big at Bunnings they can cut it to size for you, then sand and put a couple of coats of polyurethane on it.  Some furniture legs could be bought and cut down to size, or you might even be able to find door stops that are the right length that can be used as legs. 

 

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You can test and experience isolation solutions by yourself with a simple phone app Seimograph, it is not high sensitive for very high frequency pickup as lab equipment but can give u a good idea if isolation item works.

 

an example that I run 31.5hz at high volume, you can see the difference on phone measurements between phone on floor (close to speaker) verus phone on hifi rack. Those example is not on the microphonic level but we can test a few things, especially in very low frequency range. The higher, the more sensitive equipment we need.

 

 

 

 

 

56CD1A72-D46B-4B50-A222-CBA182D193DE.jpeg

EE7D9D83-606A-4A7B-A108-92539A0A7AB4.jpeg

Edited by ikhuong
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10 hours ago, audiofeline said:

If you find something too big at Bunnings they can cut it to size for you, then sand and put a couple of coats of polyurethane on it. 

Thanks. I didnt know they can do that. Will give it a try!

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