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Upgrading old tt from 70's


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So I was given an old cec tt from a relative and I plugged it in and it sounded rather nice. The first time I have used a mc cartridge to be honest.

 

So I thought I'd upgrade the power cable and add some rca outputs as the rca cable is soldered to the tt internals and they are Abit kinked.

 

So I opened her up and cut the power cable, strangely enough both positive and negative were covered in black insulation. So with the new plug, do I solder the brown to the contact that goes to the switch? And the blue to the contact that goes to the transformer? Or the opposite way? I know it probably shouldn't matter as it's ac, but I would like it to be correct.

 

With the RCA's should I reuse the current rca cable, which is already solders on, to the rca terminals that I bought? Or should I change that also and solder new wiring from the direct contact to the rca terminals?? I'm going to drill holes in the back to accommodate the rca terminals, and buy a plate and drill holes through that that so it all sorts nice and flush and looks nice.

 

Anything else I can do to upgrade the old girl? Apart from the obvious cartridge change. 

I'm about to buy a sound smith mm cartridge for another tt. Apparently they **** all over the ortofon black's 

I wonder if I should hold off on that and buy a new mc cartridge, this one is called an mc-11 I can't find alot of information about it 

 

The stylus is fine. Now I'm going to have not so much fun putting it back together

 

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Depends on the circuit, but in 99% of cases it absolutely DOES matter where active and neutral go.   Active(brown) - fuse - switch - transformer (or motor if AC synchronous)   Neut

'Star Line' ... look like ETI clones, Ian?  Low mass is always good ... do you know if they use teflon insulation around the central pin?   Andy  

Sad, isn't it.     Andy  

I'll leave that AC one to someone else.

 

But with the signal cables I'd use appropriate quality wire everywhere you can if looking at this with improvement in mind.

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3 hours ago, muon* said:

I'll leave that AC one to someone else.

 

But with the signal cables I'd use appropriate quality wire everywhere you can if looking at this with improvement in mind.

Something like mogami or canare? Not too expensive but definitely an upgrade to the current wiring. 

 

The AC is what I am worried about. I asked a sparky mate but he said it shouldn't matter.

He said brown to switch and blue to transformer but to find the pinout from tranny first, which I have no idea what that means

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8 minutes ago, anewmission said:

Van damme silver series? On ebay it's about $30 a metre. Is that the one you mean?

Eek!

 

Try emailing Geoff at Aurealis Audio, he might be able to supply you with the same as he uses in his entry phono cables.

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7 minutes ago, muon* said:

Eek!

 

Try emailing Geoff at Aurealis Audio, he might be able to supply you with the same as he uses in his entry phono cables.

That is the price of what looks to be the budget stuff.

Somme of the van damme are 150+ per metre.

I don't think I need silver coated for this application. Maybe just good copper but If the prices are the same I don't see why not

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6 minutes ago, anewmission said:

That is the price of what looks to be the budget stuff.

Somme of the van damme are 150+ per metre.

I don't think I need silver coated for this application. Maybe just good copper but If the prices are the same I don't see why not

I'm not up on pricing, just that I noticed cheaper even on ebay when I searched.

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You can check any parameters of their cables in the tech' pdf's on the Van Damme site.

https://www.van-damme.com/vandamme_product/van-damme-pro-grade-classic-xke-pro-patch-cable/

 

If buying from ebay cross reference data with the info on the Van Damme site and make sure you are getting what you want.

 

My links were a bit random as they are just examples that are not 30 dollars a meter.

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6 minutes ago, muon* said:

You can check any parameters of their cables in the tech' pdf's on the Van Damme site.

https://www.van-damme.com/vandamme_product/van-damme-pro-grade-classic-xke-pro-patch-cable/

 

If buying from ebay cross reference data with the info on the Van Damme site and make sure you are getting what you want.

 

My links were a bit random as they are just examples that are not 30 dollars a meter.

That's true, although if I add shipping and only buy a metre or so then it's still about the same price.

 

These look like really decent cabling though

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Just now, anewmission said:

That's true, although if I add shipping and only buy a metre or so then it's still about the same price.

 

These look like really decent cabling though

That's why I suggested emailing Geoff.

 

No guarantee as acquiring stuff from overseas in many manufacturing areas lately has been hit an miss due to the covid thing.

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15 minutes ago, muon* said:

That's why I suggested emailing Geoff.

 

No guarantee as acquiring stuff from overseas in many manufacturing areas lately has been hit an miss due to the covid thing.

Oh I see what you mean, thankyou I'll contact him. Is he on sna?

 

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9 minutes ago, muon* said:

Cool thanks heaps.

I just sent an enquiry.

 

Now on to the ac side of things, does anyone know? It's just a quick solder to each point but I'm still confused.

So far I have been told (brown to the switch, and blue to the transformer)

 

But I don't want to solder until I am 100%

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3 hours ago, muon* said:

He doesn't sell by the metre but has redirected me to https://store.cliff.com.au/microphone-cables/203-vandamme-pro-grade-install-cable.html

 

I'm really happy with the prices, Im going to order several things so shipping won't be an issue.

 

These prices seem almost too good to be true.

$3 for neutrik rca jacks.. amazing

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Yes, I think Geoff is concentrating on finished cables more these days, and mostly the higher quality lines like his Litz ones.

 

Good recommendation from him :thumb:

 

That's a realistic price for gold plated brass connectors.

 

Edit: i notice their Silver Series is less than half the cost of that on ebay :)

https://store.cliff.com.au/instrument-cable/323-vandamme-silver-series-lo-cap.html

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37 minutes ago, muon* said:

Yes, I think Geoff is concentrating on finished cables more these days, and mostly the higher quality lines like his Litz ones.

 

Good recommendation from him :thumb:

 

That's a realistic price for gold plated brass connectors.

 

Edit: i notice their Silver Series is less than half the cost of that on ebay :)

https://store.cliff.com.au/instrument-cable/323-vandamme-silver-series-lo-cap.html

I saw that too. Unfortunately they are out of stock at the moment. Geoff advised not to get that one and go for the twisted pair, mic cable.

 

I am however going to order some of the silver series for my guitar, pedals and patching my rack once they have them back in stock,

 

What is a better option than the hold plated brass for rca? I'm not going to spend too much until I'm ready to re-do every cable in my system.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, anewmission said:

I saw that too. Unfortunately they are out of stock at the moment. Geoff advised not to get that one and go for the twisted pair, mic cable.

 

I am however going to order some of the silver series for my guitar, pedals and patching my rack once they have them back in stock,

 

What is a better option than the hold plated brass for rca? I'm not going to spend too much until I'm ready to re-do every cable in my system.

 

 

Geoff gives good advice and It's based in knowledge and experience :thumb:

 

Unfortunately better connectors do cost more, I prefer ones that are a copper alloy like Tellurium Copper, Star Line would be the most affordable but you need to find a source with low shipping cost. Likely looking at around $30 for a set of 4 plugs.

 

They are low mass also which I find appealing.

 

Aliexpress has them at various pricing with various plating, some are cheap with free postage.

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24 minutes ago, muon* said:

 

Unfortunately better connectors do cost more, I prefer ones that are a copper alloy like Tellurium Copper, Star Line would be the most affordable but you need to find a source with low shipping cost. Likely looking at around $30 for a set of 4 plugs.

 

 

'Star Line' ... look like ETI clones, Ian?  Low mass is always good ... do you know if they use teflon insulation around the central pin?

 

Andy

 

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5 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

'Star Line' ... look like ETI clones, Ian?  Low mass is always good ... do you know if they use teflon insulation around the central pin?

 

Andy

 

Not sure about the Teflon, but you are right that they seem to be 'inspired' by the old ETI types.

 

Need to research the seller you buy from I expect as often I have found things to to different to what is advertised by some chinese sellers, like base metals not as they suggest.

 

But I haven't ordered any of these Star Line ones myself.

 

@andyr a few months ago I ordered some CMC sockets on ebay, they were advertised as a copper alloy tellurium, but after I placed my order I cross referenced the model on the CMC site to find they were actually brass, so I quickly cancelled that order.

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31 minutes ago, muon* said:

Need to research the seller you buy from I expect as often I have found things to to different to what is advertised by some chinese sellers, like base metals not as they suggest.

 

But I haven't ordered any of these Star Line ones myself.

 

@andyr a few months ago I ordered some CMC sockets on ebay, they were advertised as a copper alloy tellurium, but after I placed my order I cross referenced the model on the CMC site to find they were actually brass, so I quickly cancelled that order.

 

Sad, isn't it.  :(

 

Andy

 

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6 hours ago, anewmission said:

I thought instrument cables had alot higher resistance than hifi designed cables?

Instruments (ie guitars) are generally very high impedance. Cable for guitars is usually designed to have low capacitance, as cable capacitance destroys the high end on guitars.

 

Resistance wise it’s low, just like other cable.

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9 hours ago, anewmission said:

I thought instrument cables had a lot higher resistance than hifi-designed cables?

 

I'm curious as to why you thought this - where did you get this idea from?

 

2 hours ago, Suzyj said:

Instruments (ie guitars) are generally very high impedance. Cable for guitars is usually designed to have low capacitance, as cable capacitance destroys the high end on guitars.

 

Resistance wise it’s low, just like other cable.

 

Maybe, Suzy, he was thinking about 'lab instrument' cables?

 

Andy

 

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3 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

I'm curious as to why you thought this - where did you get this idea from?

 

 

Maybe, Suzy, he was thinking about 'lab instrument' cables?

 

Andy

 

All the expensive guitar cables in my store ie: pig hog. Say low resistance on the packaging.. so I just guessed that the cheapies aren't low resistance.

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Remember than any audio cable connected to a turntable should be low capacitance. 

 

I don't see the point of installing RCA sockets on the back of a turntable, it invites the use of standard (higher-capacitance) cables, and an additional connection point.  I think it's better to have RCA plugs one end and the other end directly connected to the tonearm. 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, audiofeline said:

Remember than any audio cable connected to a turntable should be low capacitance. 

 

I don't see the point of installing RCA sockets on the back of a turntable, it invites the use of standard (higher-capacitance) cables, and an additional connection point.  I think it's better to have RCA plugs one end and the other end directly connected to the tonearm. 

 

 

I understand your theory, however it's a totally different design, the rca plug is not going directly to the tone arm. I will take some photo's . I will be making two pairs of RCA's with exactly the same cabling and if it doesn't sound as good as it did before I did the upgrades, then yes I will solder directly to the tt internals.

 

My project carbon is soldered directly to the tone arm. But this is a very old design on the cec. 

 

Any Tech's here able to chime in regarding the ac connection??

Before the thread gets hijacked haha

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If you have a two-pin power plug, I don't think it matters which way you connect the power cord.  At worst, the motor will turn in the opposite direction which will indicate that the connections are the wrong way around (but being AC I don't think that will occur).  However, I'm not a technician or an electrician. 

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If you have the US/Japanese style 2 pin plug, that plugs into the rear of some vintage amps (eg, switched outlets) then doesn't really matter, however I would suggest for consistency, brown wire (active) connects to switch. Blue wire (neutral) connects to the return wire from transformer.  Inspect the cap across the switch (snubber, aka spark killer) some of the early RIFA caps were prone to failure,leave alone if looks ok.

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On 14/12/2020 at 6:50 AM, mbz said:

If you have the US/Japanese style 2 pin plug, that plugs into the rear of some vintage amps (eg, switched outlets) then doesn't really matter, however I would suggest for consistency, brown wire (active) connects to switch. Blue wire (neutral) connects to the return wire from transformer.  Inspect the cap across the switch (snubber, aka spark killer) some of the early RIFA caps were prone to failure,leave alone if looks ok.

Cheers thankyou very much

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On 13/12/2020 at 6:58 PM, andyr said:

 

Sad, isn't it.  :(

 

Andy

 

What about the neutrik's pro-fi jacks? Any good? 

I need some to accommodate quite a large cable.

Any benefit to using silver solder or will I be wasting more bucks?

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1 hour ago, anewmission said:

What about the neutrik's pro-fi jacks? Any good? 

I need some to accommodate quite a large cable.

Any benefit to using silver solder or will I be wasting more bucks?

Actually I just pulled the rubber grommits out of the last pair of reans I bought and it's a good size fit.

 

This current setup I have been describing is my second room setup .

So I think reans should be ok, but as I am ordering such a small amount of cabling from cliff I may as well order some more rca sockets.

Anyone have a preference on cliffs website?

I should really order today so it's here before xmas

 

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3 hours ago, anewmission said:

Actually I just pulled the rubber grommits out of the last pair of reans I bought and it's a good size fit.

 

This current setup I have been describing is my second room setup .

So I think reans should be ok, but as I am ordering such a small amount of cabling from cliff I may as well order some more rca sockets.

Anyone have a preference on cliffs website?

I should really order today so it's here before xmas

 

They only list one RCA socket and it is a chassis mount one details as seen here.

 

https://www.neutrik.com/en/product/nf2d-9

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21 hours ago, anewmission said:

What about the neutrik's pro-fi jacks? Any good? 

I need some to accommodate quite a large cable.

Any benefit to using silver solder or will I be wasting more bucks?

It's not actually silver solder, which commonly refers to hard solder used in brazing.

For electronics soldering, a silver loaded solder can be beneficial to prevent silver "scavenging" when soldering to silver plated parts. It also has good mechanical strength, and usually improves whetting. I like Multicore 1.2mm Sn62/Pb36/Ag2 solder personally, for soldering anything other than very small pitch solder pads.

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6 hours ago, bob_m_54 said:

It's not actually silver solder, which commonly refers to hard solder used in brazing.

For electronics soldering, a silver loaded solder can be beneficial to prevent silver "scavenging" when soldering to silver plated parts. It also has good mechanical strength, and usually improves whetting. I like Multicore 1.2mm Sn62/Pb36/Ag2 solder personally, for soldering anything other than very small pitch solder pads.

Cheers thanks.

I will look into that.

I made an order with cliff but the neutrik's were on back order so I just said give me whatever you have in stock. 

Kind of looks exciting to see what turns up

 

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On 13/12/2020 at 9:02 PM, audiofeline said:

If you have a two-pin power plug, I don't think it matters which way you connect the power cord.  At worst, the motor will turn in the opposite direction which will indicate that the connections are the wrong way around (but being AC I don't think that will occur).  However, I'm not a technician or an electrician. 

Depends on the circuit, but in 99% of cases it absolutely DOES matter where active and neutral go.

 

Active(brown) - fuse - switch - transformer (or motor if AC synchronous)

 

Neutral (Blue) - transformer (or motor if AC synchronous)

 

REMEMBER, neutral and earth are equipotential at the M.E.N. which should be at the fuse box.  Meaning that neutral conductors are referenced to earth.

If you swap the active and neutral wires, something does wrong and the internal fuse blows, the chassis of the device will still be active !!!

 

If you are not confident, don't touch !

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29 minutes ago, Leinster Lad said:

Depends on the circuit, but in 99% of cases it absolutely DOES matter where active and neutral go...

Thanks, nothing beats an informed opinion.

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