Guest Suzyj Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Way back, I wanted to build some amplifiers to drive a lovely old pair of Infinity RS-5B speakers that my PhD supervisor gave me. I found the original articles for the AEM6000, and set to updating that to use available (at the time) transistors. Since then I've done some other versions of this amp, mostly working to shrink the PCB somewhat, optimise the layout, and achieve respectable noise, THD, and slew rate specs while keeping the quiescent current under control. This latest version uses one pair of Exicon ECX10N20/10P20 lateral MOSFETs, for around 50W RMS into 8Ω. It has reasonably good distortion, of around 0.0005% at 1KHz, and features rather lower quiescent power consumption than a lot of lateral FET amplifiers, because I care about that. It also does just 8nV/√Hz input referred noise, so you can enjoy your music without hiss. It's a nice little amplifier, easily my favourite. I've built a bunch of them and use them for all sorts of stuff. All the files for making one, including gerbers and a comprehensive construction guide, are available on my Google drive. It requires surface mount assembly (MELF and SOT-23) but don't you think it's time you tried that? All the components are available now. AEM6000 Based 50W Amp Construction Notes.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janus77 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 I read through the attachment Suzy, too technical for me though I'd love to try something like this one day. What are the cost of the parts roughly out of interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Suzyj Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 The build price is dominated by the MOSFETs, at around $15 each, and the JFET, at around $8. I’d guess something like $60-80 per amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeyboi Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 11 hours ago, Suzyj said: Way back, I wanted to build some amplifiers to drive a lovely old pair of Infinity RS-5B speakers that my PhD supervisor gave me. I found the original articles for the AEM6000, and set to updating that to use available (at the time) transistors. Since then I've done some other versions of this amp, mostly working to shrink the PCB somewhat, optimise the layout, and achieve respectable noise, THD, and slew rate specs while keeping the quiescent current under control. This latest version uses one pair of Exicon ECX10N20/10P20 lateral MOSFETs, for around 50W RMS into 8Ω. It has reasonably good distortion, of around 0.0005% at 1KHz, and features rather lower quiescent power consumption than a lot of lateral FET amplifiers, because I care about that. It also does just 8nV/√Hz input referred noise, so you can enjoy your music without hiss. It's a nice little amplifier, easily my favourite. I've built a bunch of them and use them for all sorts of stuff. All the files for making one, including gerbers and a comprehensive construction guide, are available on my Google drive. It requires surface mount assembly (MELF and SOT-23) but don't you think it's time you tried that? All the components are available now. AEM6000 Based 50W Amp Construction Notes.pdf 1.82 MB · 11 downloads Very nice work Suzy and well documented too. Very tempted to build a pair of these. Cheers, Alan R. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rrobot Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) Fantastic work Suzy! The name David Tilbrook took me back to my youf - dad built a pair of large Philips equipped 3-ways from ETI in 1980 that were my first intro to hif as a very young child. Tilbrook was the designer there too. He seems to have been quite prolific in the 1980s. Looking at all those SMDs gave me chills but it looks like a very fun and rewarding project. Extremely thoroughly documented - you've probably covered this in other posts but have you attempted to sell these as kits or finished units? They look really well designed. Thanks for sharing this with the community! Edited December 10, 2020 by Rrobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsparks Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 On 08/12/2020 at 4:06 PM, Suzyj said: Are there any pcb's available to buy ? AEM6000 Based 50W Amp Construction Notes.pdf 1.82 MB · 20 downloads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Suzyj Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 The idea is you send the Gerber files to a pcb manufacturer, and they send you pcbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Suzyj Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 (edited) On the basis that more is always better, here’s a 100W version: 100 watt design files Same thing, but with twice as many MOSFETs. I’ve only built a few of these, as the little one makes more sense for my usual active crossover speakers, but they perform quite well. Edited December 11, 2020 by Suzyj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsparks Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 9 hours ago, Suzyj said: The idea is you send the Gerber files to a pcb manufacturer, and they send you pcbs. That was my "BAD" i didn't see the part that you attached the gerbers till the end sorry about that sir ! I downloaded them already. 8 hours ago, Suzyj said: On the basis that more is always better, here’s a 100W version: 100 watt design files Same thing, but with twice as many MOSFETs. I’ve only built a few of these, as the little one makes more sense for my usual active crossover speakers, but they perform quite well. Thanks for the 50 & 100 watt versions im going to order a few boards to build! Are the smaller transistors all still available ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leinster Lad Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 17 hours ago, Suzyj said: On the basis that more is always better, here’s a 100W version: 100 watt design files Same thing, but with twice as many MOSFETs. I’ve only built a few of these, as the little one makes more sense for my usual active crossover speakers, but they perform quite well. Hiya Suzy, was wondering when this bigger version would show up Really great that you decided to share with the DIY community Just one quick question please. The connectors used for the pwr and speakers ?? I've looked on mouser but there are so many that are similar, but not quite the same. I've measured with calipers and get 2.8mm x 0.9mm x 10.4mm long. I cannot for the life of me find the connector to suit ( the female one that would have the cables connected to it ) Could I trouble you for a part number please ? The little input ones as well if possible? cheers heaps David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Suzyj Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 Hi David, They're a connector I quite like, a Faston 110. They're a shrunk version of a Faston 250 (general purpose spade connector). The particular flavour I use is 2.8x0.81. Here's a link to the relevant Mouser page for terminals: https://au.mouser.com/Connectors/Terminals/110-FASTON-Series/_/N-5g5u?P=1ywwwf4Z1yphpxn The uninsulated ones generally have a U shaped part where the wire goes in. A Hero FRH-07 crimp tool is just the ticket for crimping them (or of course you can just solder to them). I got mine from Eastern Beaver (and still chuckle whenever I read the name): https://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Tools/tools.html Make sure you put some heatshrink over the top. The little ones are a Harwin M20, which is a 2.54mm pitch connector with 0.64mm square pins. Three pin socket housing: https://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Harwin/M20-1060300?qs=Jph8NoUxIfWw8TD5O8shNw%3D%3D And crimp terminals: https://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Harwin/M20-1180042?qs=pYcASEcTDE4r0B52MhViPw%3D%3D I use a Hozan P-706 crimper to crimp these little guys. (also available from Eastern Beaver) Cheers, Suzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leinster Lad Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 Thanks heaps Suzy, now to start planning ! ( well I am a between jobs (SAP) planner ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsparks Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 20 hours ago, Suzyj said: On the basis that more is always better, here’s a 100W version: 100 watt design files Same thing, but with twice as many MOSFETs. I’ve only built a few of these, as the little one makes more sense for my usual active crossover speakers, but they perform quite well. I'm ordering a pile of these boards for my self ! I LOVE smd amplifier boards ! Do you have any recommendations for good PSU ? Schematic ? Funny my Aleph turbo Is all SMD and used bottom mounted fets also ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Suzyj Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 I did a write-up of some of the development process: http://www.suzyj.net/2017/01/measuring-mosfet-power-amplifier.html In testing, I used a 2x40VAC 300VA toroidal (MT2140 from Jaycar) for the supply, with a BY224 (4.8A) bridge rectifier, and 2 x 6800µF 63V electrolytics for the rails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Suzyj Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 13 hours ago, itsparks said: That was my "BAD" i didn't see the part that you attached the gerbers till the end sorry about that sir ! I downloaded them already. Thanks for the 50 & 100 watt versions im going to order a few boards to build! Are the smaller transistors all still available ? Yup, all the parts are available. See the parts list. Also, I'm not a sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereo coffee Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Suzy and I have been having a discussion within messages, concerning the circuit description she provides. The description I understand, being at odds with the term cascode. (1), (2) (3) and (4) History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascode#cite_note-3 The use of a cascode (sometimes verbified to cascoding) is a common technique for improving analog circuit performance, applicable to both vacuum tubes and transistors. The name "cascode" was coined in an article written by Frederick Vinton Hunt and Roger Wayne Hickman in 1939, in a discussion on the application of voltage stabilizers.[3] They proposed a cascode of two triodes (the first one with a common cathode setup, the second one with a common grid) as a replacement for a pentode, and so the name may be assumed to be an abbreviation of "casc(aded triode amplifier having characteristics similar to, but less noisy than, a single pent)ode".[4] Suzy's circuit description partial. “Referring to the amplifier schematic, Q1 forms a differential pair, with the amplifier input connected to one side and the feedback point (divided by 16 via R48 and R49) on the other. Q7 and Q8 form a 5mA current sink to bias the input stage. 800μA flows through each JFET, and the balance is used to bias a cascode, comprising Q3 and Q4. The cascode stage ensures the input JFETs only have 12V across them regardless of supply voltage, and also speeds the input stage up, by virtue of reducing miller capacitance effect. The current source comprising Q5 and Q6 source current into the cascode bases.” Certainly there is stabilization at Q3 and Q4 bases, and by virtue then at Q3 and Q4 emitters by use of the zener diode ZD1, in my opinion zeners are poor regulators (3) – however a cascode as we know it, I consider is wrongly termed for Q3 and Q4 in Suzys description as neither (being located above Q1a and Q1b) are common base ( grid or gate ) form. As a result the proper use of the term cascode appears placed in error. Whilst some small bias is allowable in a cascode & is sometimes seen with RF implementations, accompanied by a bypass capacitor to ground for RF purpose (6 ) , the usual circuit is typified by base ( grid or gate ), effectively grounded by DC voltage source ( (4)This upper transistor is referred to as the cascode device. Because at high frequencies the cascode transistor's base/gate is effectively grounded by DC voltage source Bias ) Rather in your description and schematic, 12v positive is shared on both bases of Q3 and Q4, provided by current source at Q5 and Q6 to bias ZD1. There may be indeed some good attributes of the cascode present, by implementing stable voltage, as the emitter of Q3 and Q4 then assists the drain of the lower devices, however as I understand, should not be termed a cascode, as the circuit lacks the bases being effectively grounded by DC voltage source. Rather your circuit description referring to the schematic, provides a stable DC voltage source certainly, but is at 12v potential & not grounded by DC voltage source, neither is a capacitor present. I look forward to understanding ,why the term cascode is used ( rushed to perhaps ) in your circuit description. I note the original designer did not use the same implementation (5) (1) A cascode describes an amplifier stage consisting of a common emitter (source or cathode ) stage followed by a common base ( grid or gate ) stage. page 89 Designing with field effect transistors Siliconix Inc second edition (2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascode#cite_note-3, (3) https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/35821-noise-measurements-leds-zener-diodes.html (4) https://wiki-stage.analog.com/university/courses/electronics/text/chapter-10?s[]=cascode (5) https://archive.org/details/ETIA1981/ETI 1981-01 January/page/n23/mode/2up (6) Basic Radio Tepper 2nd revised edition 4-78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Suzyj Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 I suspect the whole diffamp thing is confusing you. Can you agree that the node at the junction of R4 and R5 is a virtual ground due to the symmetry of the differential amplifier? If you do that, then split the whole input diffamp down the middle and look at one side. Q1a source goes to virtual ground via a degeneration resistor. Q3's base is held at 12V wrt our virtual ground, due to the 12V zener. The node formed by the emitter of Q3 and the drain of Q1a is at 11.3V. Our load resistor (R6) hangs off Q3's collector. It's a straightforward, uncomplicated cascode. It's perfectly valid to do cascodes (and folded cascodes) in differential circuits. Here's a nice set of slides explaining how folded cascodes work for opamps: http://www.seas.ucla.edu/brweb/teaching/215A_F2014/opamps.pdf Regarding other assertions: Yes, zeners are noisy (indeed I've used them as RF noise sources professionally). When used as shown in the amplifier, it's noise contribution is negligible because it's common-mode, and the amplifier has high CMRR. The proof is in the pudding. The actual measured input referred noise of this amplifier is about the same as an OP134, at 8nv/√Hz. Why are you talking about the ETI477? It's a fine amplifier, but it's completely different to the AEM6000, which was published in Australian Electronics Monthly in 1986. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 4 hours ago, Suzyj said: The proof is in the pudding. You know your technical stuff, Suzy (much more so than I do! ) - but the aphorism is ... "the proof of the pudding is in the eating "! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Suzyj Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Oh no! I’m usually such a grammar nazi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereo coffee Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 17 hours ago, Suzyj said: I suspect the whole diffamp thing is confusing you. Can you agree that the node at the junction of R4 and R5 is a virtual ground due to the symmetry of the differential amplifier? If you do that, then split the whole input diffamp down the middle and look at one side. Q1a source goes to virtual ground via a degeneration resistor. Q3's base is held at 12V wrt our virtual ground, due to the 12V zener. The node formed by the emitter of Q3 and the drain of Q1a is at 11.3V. Our load resistor (R6) hangs off Q3's collector. It's a straightforward, uncomplicated cascode. It's perfectly valid to do cascodes (and folded cascodes) in differential circuits. Here's a nice set of slides explaining how folded cascodes work for opamps: http://www.seas.ucla.edu/brweb/teaching/215A_F2014/opamps.pdf Regarding other assertions: Yes, zeners are noisy (indeed I've used them as RF noise sources professionally). When used as shown in the amplifier, it's noise contribution is negligible because it's common-mode, and the amplifier has high CMRR. The proof is in the pudding. The actual measured input referred noise of this amplifier is about the same as an OP134, at 8nv/√Hz. Why are you talking about the ETI477? It's a fine amplifier, but it's completely different to the AEM6000, which was published in Australian Electronics Monthly in 1986. Thanks, indeed R4 and R5 are a virtual ground, mainly providing Q1a and Q1b sources potential & ZD1 's anode ability, at its cathode then, to zener at its avalanche voltage. The test I consider to validate cascode, is no signal phase inversion inferring cascode , or inversion not cascode at q3 and q4 collectors, relative to q3 and q4 emitters I might have to build the board to test, just to see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leinster Lad Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 On 12/12/2020 at 9:33 AM, Suzyj said: They're a connector I quite like, a Faston 110. They're a shrunk version of a Faston 250 (general purpose spade connector). The particular flavour I use is 2.8x0.81. Here's a link to the relevant Mouser page for terminals: https://au.mouser.com/Connectors/Terminals/110-FASTON-Series/_/N-5g5u?P=1ywwwf4Z1yphpxn Hi Suzy, I must be having an old bloke look, but for the life of me I cannot find the Faston 110 terminals that go into the board. Would it be possible to trouble you for the part number please ?? Thanks heaps David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsparks Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Leinster Lad said: Hi Suzy, I must be having an old bloke look, but for the life of me I cannot find the Faston 110 terminals that go into the board. Would it be possible to trouble you for the part number please ?? Thanks heaps David Just solder wires into the holes ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leinster Lad Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 1 hour ago, itsparks said: Just solder wires into the holes ? I like the flexibility that connectors give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsparks Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 Just now, Leinster Lad said: I like the flexibility that connectors give. I guess, im really not a fan of pin mechanical connectors my self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janus77 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 Jason, i went bungy jumping in Nanaimo once, nice place.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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