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https://www.whathifi.com/au/reviews/sony-wh-1000xm4

 

just released and I’ve seen it here:

 

 

https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/products/sony-wh-1000xm4-bluetooth-noise-cancelling-headphones-wh1000xm4?variant=32520221327456&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google Shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpteKxKiL6wIVO8EWBR0S9Ac8EAQYAyABEgLKPvD_BwE

 

like to see what the difference between these and the mx3.   But I guest COVID 29 and stage 4 restrictions I’m gonna wait for a while....  you either like them or hate them......

  
 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Addicted to music said:

https://www.whathifi.com/au/reviews/sony-wh-1000xm4

 

just released and I’ve seen it here:

 

 

https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/products/sony-wh-1000xm4-bluetooth-noise-cancelling-headphones-wh1000xm4?variant=32520221327456&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google Shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpteKxKiL6wIVO8EWBR0S9Ac8EAQYAyABEgLKPvD_BwE

 

like to see what the difference between these and the mx3.   But I guest COVID 29 and stage 4 restrictions I’m gonna wait for a while....  you either like them or hate them......

  
 

 

 

I'm tempted to take one for the team and grab them from work.... could do a head to head comparison and post impressions if enough people are interested.

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6 hours ago, TheWretchedWorld said:

could do a head to head comparison and post impressions if enough people are interested.

I'd like to hear that from someone who isn't blogging for $$

 

The xm3 held resale value very well, for a good long time, so odds on you could grab the xm4 and then sell it on if need be with little loss

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36 minutes ago, wikeeboy said:

Is it possible to use these headphones wired and turn off bluetooth/wireless?

Yes Bluetooth switches off when they are plugged in. But you definately want the headphone itself switched on even if you don't want noise cancellation as there is some post processing that takes place which makes them sound a lot better. They aren't really designed to be used passively (switched off) even with the wired connection.

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They look virtually identical and weigh the same. XM4 has slightly less headband padding and different textured plastic. The only major change cosmetic wise is this strange sensor like thing in the xm4 not sure what it's purpose is yet.

20200813_191820.jpg

20200813_191834.jpg

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54 minutes ago, TheWretchedWorld said:

The only major change cosmetic wise is this strange sensor like thing in the xm4 not sure what it's purpose is yet.

I take it thats the sensor inside the earcup? I'm pretty sure thats a proximity sensor, for autopausing when you take them off.

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OK initial impressions
XM4 have ever so slightly better NC it is noticable but not by a huge amount not worth losing sleep over as an XM3 owner (this was tested switching between them playing jetliner white noise from my studio monitors so best case scenario, the XM4 may pull ahead more when it comes to cancelling more random sounds but I haven't really tested this) I ran the acoustic optimiser on both right before using

They both have a very similar sound signature. XM4 have a little bit more sparkle and air and bass seems tighter and more controlled (this gives me the impression that there is actually less bass but switching back and forth id say the quantity is the same its just that XM3 its a little looser.) They sound a bit bit less congested as a result
I was able to feed the same audio to both of them at the same time. Samsung phones have this nifty dual audio feature so I quickly swapped between them playing the same tracks volume matched.

TLDR XM4 are an improvement all round with lots of new features one of the most overlooked ones being that they pause when you take them off your head. Better battery life also.
Microphone sounds the same between both (a lot of people complained about unit to unit variance in terms of mic quality on the XM3 mine have been fine)
Noise cancelling is only slightly better
Sound quality is improved but it still retains that similar bass heavy sound signature. Tighter bass and more air and sparkle in the high frequencies (more resolving for lack of a better word) so if you didnt like the XM3 you wont like the XM4. (My XM3 pads have slightly more wear so take this with a grain of salt)

Probably not worth the upgrade as an XM3 owner if you are paying retail for them..... But if curiosity gets the better of you there is a difference albeit not a huge one.

 

117397724_631855161066455_798808087539215210_n.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 13/08/2020 at 8:03 PM, TheWretchedWorld said:

Probably not worth the upgrade as an XM3 owner if you are paying retail for them..... But if curiosity gets the better of you there is a difference albeit not a huge one.

thanks Louis...

Really appreciate your taking the time to do that!

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The ability to connect to multiple devices at once via Bluetooth is another reason to consider the XM4 over the XM3 for some. 

EDIT - I see some people above have already mentioned this! 

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On 28/08/2020 at 4:07 PM, commawaffle said:

The ability to connect to multiple devices at once via Bluetooth is another reason to consider the XM4 over the XM3 for some. 

EDIT - I see some people above have already mentioned this! 

I've read you lose the ability to listen using the higher quality codecs when they're paired with multiple devices... not ideal! 

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On 30/08/2020 at 1:29 PM, jkc91 said:

I've read you lose the ability to listen using the higher quality codecs when they're paired with multiple devices... not ideal! 

This is true can confirm

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On 30/08/2020 at 1:29 PM, jkc91 said:

I've read you lose the ability to listen using the higher quality codecs when they're paired with multiple devices... not ideal! 

What a weird limitation. I wonder why?

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5 minutes ago, commawaffle said:

What a weird limitation. I wonder why?

I reckon there’d be a technical limitation on available bandwidth. Having said that, wouldn’t be surprised to see a future software update with some additional smarts with how this is handled come into effect... or the WH1000xm5.

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6 minutes ago, jkc91 said:

I reckon there’d be a technical limitation on available bandwidth. Having said that, wouldn’t be surprised to see a future software update with some additional smarts with how this is handled come into effect... or the WH1000xm5.

I feel like this would be a software update - it's just upgrading an already present feature as opposed to adding something new. It would be hard to package as something desirable for a new model I'd wager, as opposed to a firmware update. Then again, it is  Sony...

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  • 3 weeks later...

i purchased a pair today..Was going to go with the B&W px7, but after 5 minutes on my head i had enough of them. Not because they sounded bad, but found them very uncomfortable,. 
The Sony's on the other hand are very comfy and the sound quality to me, was very close to the px7's. Id be hard pressed to tell them apart.

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Hi,

I am new to this forum. I am not an "audiophile" in the sense that I do not spend thousands on equipment. I am just a 77 year old guy who likes music - oldies, classical, opera.

I have my music on a PC, some mp3/320, some FLAC, and listen to music via a cable while playing Solitaire.

Recently with the Black Friday deals, I decided to splash out and buy the acclaimed Sony WH-1000XM3.  Not the latest model, but has aptX codecs including the Low Latency, should I wanted to use it with TV.

I was bitterly disappointed when I tried them playing my favorite opera pieces with Pavarotti and Joan Sutherland. It distorted some high tones, more than my other headphones - Audio Technica SR6BT.   Tried lots of other tracks, including pop and folk, and yes it is there and it is annoying.  I tried similar music on Spotify with the same results.

Due to my age I have to play back with a higher volume than young people would, but on the other hand, my hearing falls off on a slope after 1-2kHz, so the high tone distortion should not be so audible for me. But it is.

I can get rid of it by reducing 2-4kHz band by 10 dB in EQ.  But is it right to have to do that on headphones of this price and reputation?

What would be your opinion and advice?   Return it? Live with it and use the EQ to remove it?

How do I convince  Kogan technicians that it is a fault, and should not be there?

 

Thanks in advance

Joe

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I am running them both ways.  With bluetooth they run aptX. The distortion is a bit more noticeable with bluetooth.

My daughter has the same model, one year old. I hear the distortion with them too. She never noticed, because she plays different music.

 

I am starting to believe that the problem is with the recordings.  I am discussing it also on another forum, and one response was that it is a common problem. Good headphones show faults in recordings.  Most of my music would be pretty old recordings - say 50 yo - so who knows what they did then. 

 

I also bought Avantree Aria Me headphones to replace my broken TV headphones, and I can't hear the distortion there.

But I don't think they are higher quality headphone than the Sony XM3. More likely the other way - they aren't good enough to handle the high pitch ringing tone.

 

I think I will have to keep the Sony headphones. I don't like the idea of sending them back to Kogan or Sony, and arguing with them. I would have to show that it is a major fault, and that would be hard to argue.

 

 

 

 

 

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I’m returning my pair. The left channel was significantly louder than the right. I gave it to someone to do a blind test and they confirmed my suspicions. I turned off all the audio enhancements and doublechecked my phone L/R balance. Very disappointing. Not sure if I will go for another pair or try something else.

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Don't run them off the cable. It bypasses all the DSP wizardry, and they sound dreadful.

 

Can you try them with the Noice Cancelling level set to minimum too?

 

The NC process may not sit well with your ears and hearing loss. I know it messes with my hearing.

 

Linked me to a song you hear it on, and I'll test on my system. See if it's the recording.

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Do you stream Spotify from your phone to the headphones?  If so, try running the setup app on your phone, if you haven’t already done that.  I have those same headphones myself.  If you post a track you hear distortion on I’ll listen and let you know what I can hear.

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@ Bengineer - I don't need NC in my study.   But I tested it - it works very well.  I am retired, I don.t need it, but thought it would be nice to have just in case we decided to fly somewhere post-covid.

The other wizardry - I only use the EQ, but there is an EQ in the music app I use, so again, not much use for it. 

Mine XM3's sound better when connected with the cable. No wizardry, no digital signal processing. Analog to analog.

 

@Stereophilus -

I don't use my phone to stream anything. I have plenty of my own music on it. I only listen to music from my phone when on a walk. 

But I do have Spotify app on my PC and use it quite often to look for something new.  Noemally I use the Windows Groove music.

Thanks for offering to try something on your XM3's.

 

This one is pretty bad, probably the worse I so far encountered.  The vocals are distorted from the beginning, but at 0:18 sec it is bad -

 

It is a Supraphon recording which had a good name in the LP days. But after privatisation - who knows?

 

This one - spots of distortion from the start, but at 0:45 real bad

 

 

These are the worst that I have at hand.

Thanks

 

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No real distortion. Listened on the Hifiman Arya ($2000+) off a CMA Twelve DAC/Amp ($2000+). The first track vocals are near my limit of peircing, but they aren't distorted. There is the occasional crackle or fuzz, but seems mostly independant of the vocals. There are some background strings that I can't imagine you can really hear on cheaper gear though, quite faint.

 

The idea of "keeping it analogue" only really works if that was their intent with the headphone. It means they designed the cup size, shape, driver selection and dampening to sound good with a anaoluge signal in.

 

They didn't do that. Instead of correcting with cup volume, dampening etc, they just correct it with the built in DSP. Keeps the cup size down, keeps it cheaper. Electronics is in there for the ANC anyway.

 

You listen to whatever sounds best to you, but its night and day difference. I have a pair. They sound like crap with analogue in, and passable when in wireless mode.

 

I can charge them later and see if the above tracks distort on them.

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Very interesting comments about how they design headphones.  I thought that since at the end of DSP they have to convert to analog, feeding them analog in the first place must be better.

 

And my situation is like that. When I listen to the track in wired mode at normal volume, I only hear the bad distortion at 18 sec. In BT connection, at the same volume, I hear it all the time when they sing.

 

So what do you think? Do I have a bad 'copy' of the XM3, or is it that I bought the wrong type of headphones for my type of music?

I was thinking of perhaps buying the wired-only Sennheiser HD 599 which is supposed to be a good entry audiophile level, but can I be sure that they will handle tracks like this one without problems?

These days it is not possible to go to JB Hi Fi and try headphones, and Amazon does not offer no-questions-asked returns.

 

Thank you very much for your help.

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You'll notice they work in wired mode even when off. Indicates they have no electronic conversions or DSP working in such a mode. Given they sound like crap when wired, lead me to think all the acoustic "design", or most of it, is done electronically. Not conventionally through dampening, cup volume, material, diffusion etc.

 

I think the XM3 is the wrong type of headphone for music enjoyment. Purely bought mine to have *some* music (some is better than none) with travel. Portable, ANC, wireless, small case. Has a lot going for them.

 

Maybe look at something lower end (the "better" the headphone, the more it'll reveal these flaws) but tuned well. Any headphone that is tuned well is enjoyable, IMO. Technical performaner or not.

 

With that in mind;  AKG K361 or K371 (or if you need wireless, the BT versions of each). Pick one that suits budget, isn't much between them. Might just be the right level of technical performance to enjoy the music, and not too much to start annoying you on poorly recorded music.

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You must have misunderstood or did not read my last post carefully. The headphones do not sound crap when wired. or with BT on most tracks. They sound good.

They give the distorted bits on some tracks.  And in the wired mode it is much less than in the BT mode.

 

I agree with you that I got sucked into the hype of the XM3.  I may never use the NC, hands-free phone, etc.  I should have bought a wired-only type.

But it is too late. I have to live with it. The only way would be to hassle with Kogan and/or Sony that the headphone I have is faulty. And I don't think I would be able to convince them. I don't want to have the headphones passed around the country and then at the end of the day to accept them back.

I will use EQ, or fix some of the faults with Adobe Audition, or find better quality recording.

 

Eventually I may buy a wired pair of HPs, but it would be the bottom of the audiophile class - say the Sennheiser HD 599. That's all I can afford.

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Sorry, didn't misunderstand. "Sound like crap when wired" is my view of them, they are very flat sounding and muffled, compared to something more hifi focussed in the same price range. For less money you can get a Senny HD6xx, which is worlds better, for example.

 

Anyway! Those AKG models are cheap. You can audition a pair at one of the DJ stores I'm sure. DJ City or StoreDJ etc. Might be worth a trip.

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From rtings.com - "The Sennheiser HD 600 and Sennheiser HD 599 are very similar headphones in performance, and the HD 599 might offer better overall value. Their sound profiles are fairly similar, but the HD 599 are noticeably more comfortable and don’t feel as tight as the HD 600. On the other hand, they don’t feel as well-built as the HD 600. Some may find the HD 600 sound a bit more neutral."

 

I am thinking seriously about the HD 599 - currently for $302 on Amazon. The HD 600 are $448. I can't justify that for my use having bought the XM3 already. I will keep the XM3. I paid $290 for them at Kogan and we will find some use for them.

Had a look at AKG - too many models, very weird, mix of cheap and expensive, mostly closed back. Everything Studio and Pro, even for $50.  Not for me.

Sennheiser is a known brand and the HD 599 reviews are good.

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You don't actually seem to want help mate.

 

The HD6XX is the HD650. Not HD600. Don't buy a HD600.

 

In order of price, my recommendations for cheap headphones would be;

 

AKG K372 - HD560S - HD6XX

 

But it feels like you're just going to buy a 599 anyway.

 

If AKG is weird. Then so is Sennheiser. A mix of very cheap, very expensive, very very old unchanged models, rebadged models, models that are "crippled" versions to offer variety, retuned very old versions, Studio, aviation and hifi options. I didn't recommend the AKG because they are crap or studio headphones. They have been praised for their tuning and pricepoint. Ignore it, research it yourself, dismiss it and buy the brown/cream things, I don't mind.

 

And AKG and Sennheiser both founded around the same time in the same parts of the world. I'd actually say they are equally as known as each other ;)

 

 

 

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"The Sennheiser HD 599 and Sennheiser HD 560S are closely-matched in regards to neutral sound. The HD 599 are more comfortable, have a better-balanced treble range, and a more spacious soundstage. The HD 560S offer a more stable fit, a more neutral bass and mid-range, better stereo imaging performance, and demonstrate slightly less distortion at high volumes."

 

Why would you recommend the HD 560S ($320 ) over the HD599 ($400) ?

 

I also have a similar discussion on another forum, and there is a guy there who has the HD598 (same as HD599), and he will test the tracks for me.

So if that goes OK, obviously I would be very focussed on the HD 599.

 

The above review mentions better-balanced treble range on the HD 599. It is trebles where I find the problems. I don't like the look of the HD 599, but have to sacrifice that.

Edited by aussie43
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@aussie43 Yes, I hear the issue when I use my WH-1000XM3 ear phones.  I use Bluetooth connection from my iPad and play the links.  I hear audible tweeter distortion in the right channel with the first track you posted.  It occurs with tidal too, so it’s not an mp3 issue.

 

When i stream the track through my main hifi for comparison, there is no tweeter breakup, but the track is clearly dynamically compromised.  So it’s a recording that has some issues, and it is causing audible tweeter breakup in the WH-1000XM3.

 

I must say, with the second recording, I didn’t hear any tweeter breakup like the first track.  So maybe there is a further issue with your particular headphones...?

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