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Another small sub question


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Now i know there is no replacement for displacement, but unfortunately I need a smaller sub (and my current one is only a 40cm cube approx - the Aslan CW12.

I am looking at something closer to 30cm cube. The best sub I can find in that range is the Sunfire xteq10
https://www.apollohifi.com.au/sunfire-xteq10-2700w-twin-10-inch-active-subwoofer.html
 

Its a tiny 10 inch active + 10 inch passive radiator coming in around 28cm cubed.
Are there any better options worth considering? This option is already top of my price range though.

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the size/volume (litres/mm^3) of the box doesn't relate well to the capability of a sub.

 

A sub's capability relates to the SPL required at your target frequency, and whether you have enough driver excursion and amp power to hit that target.

 

Smaller boxes = more power required

Smaller drivers = more excursion required

 

The same driver will have the same excursion in different sized boxes if matched to the same SPL, just different power required to get there...

...all things being equal, go for bigger drivers - they won't require as much excursion to hit the same SPL.

 

Mike

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Thank you. Yes for the same price as the XTEQ10 I could get the SVS SB3000 which would be ideal, unfortunately that is at least as big as the sub I already have, and need to physically downsize. The sunfire does claim really huge peak power. Not sure how accurate it is, but it should at least be fairly powerful. Good to know with the right power and excursion it is at least possible that it does what it claims!

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With that size requirement I think the Sunfire is going to be your best bet. I have never heard one but from my research a few years ago they seem to be well reviewed/respected and give impressive SPL for their diminutive size.

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12 hours ago, niterida said:

With that size requirement I think the Sunfire is going to be your best bet. I have never heard one but from my research a few years ago they seem to be well reviewed/respected and give impressive SPL for their diminutive size.

 

I have found mixed reviews, generally the consensus seems to be you can get better performance and a cheaper price from a bigger unit, but of course the price premium is in the size. For the size, as you said, its likely to be the best option i am finding. All the hifi dealers seem to recommend them, not sure if that is a good or bad thing 😂 

Edited by Andre28
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REL T5i, T7i or T9i is surprisingly small.

 

Is the T5i the right size for what you’re looking at?

 

I am amazed by what they can do with such a small box.

 

I have a JTR Captivator in the other room.

Edited by JT1
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  • 1 month later...


1 hour ago, Ray H said:

Geez, 11hz out of 2 x 6.5 in woofers, that’s some digital trickery !

More like "marketing" trickery 

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6 hours ago, Ray H said:

Geez, 11hz out of 2 x 6.5 in woofers, that’s some digital trickery !

 

5 hours ago, jamiebosco said:

More like "marketing" trickery 

The bigger KF92, released 6 months ago had similar frequency response. What HIFI tested it and their results were not that far off

https://www.whathifi.com/au/reviews/kef-kf92

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Dont know if I could buy a sub with drivers barely bigger than my bookshelves. The KF92 seems great, still pretty small drivers at 9", but also its out of my budget. I think I will just wait to find a great deal on the XTEQ10, which has 10" drivers, and is the smallest of the bunch (other than this new KEF62)

 

Edited by Andre28
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57 minutes ago, Andre28 said:

Dont know if I could buy a sub with drivers barely bigger than my bookshelves. The KF92 seems great, still pretty small drivers at 9", but also its out of my budget. I think I will just wait to find a great deal on the XTEQ10, which has 10" drivers, and is the smallest of the bunch (other than this new KEF62)

So anything bigger = better ???    :hmm: 

 

I think you have missed the advantage of the design with horizontally opposed drivers. I used to own Devialet Phantom Golds with a similar geometry, about the same size. Nothing out there could match the bass nor go louder....

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I mean with subs, usually bigger = better, yes. Not saying all big subwoofers are better than all small subwoofers, of course quality (and therefore cost) plays a part,  but just compare any subs in the same line, like this Kef62 compared to the kef92, and bigger = better.

Edited by Andre28
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When I mentioned "bigger is better", it was in reference to your perception that a bigger driver is better irrespective of technology

 

It is, of course, "bigger is better" when you compare the KF92 and the KC62. 

 

Best of luck in your search...

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No of course technology and quality plays a part. Maybe its just mental, but I just dont see any 6.5" sub being fulfilling enough for my HT duties, like it would have to be more than a revolutionary product.

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9 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

 

The bigger KF92, released 6 months ago had similar frequency response. What HIFI tested it and their results were not that far off

https://www.whathifi.com/au/reviews/kef-kf92

I'm definitely not saying it's a bad subwoofer,they've really maximized what they can do in such a small sealed box ---  but on Kef's website they claim a -3dB down point of 11Hz  on both the KF92 (dual 9") and KC62 (dual 6.5").

A -3dB point of a subwoofer is usually (or should be ) an anechoic or 2m groundplane measurement, as room gain and boundary gain can add significantly to the bottom octaves - and as all rooms vary greatly - it makes in-room rating a bit useless/pointless (unless you're in the exact room it was taken in)

 

yet when Newport Test Labs measured the larger KF92 , they measured it to be 12dB down by 10Hz - and that is an in-room measurement 

 

1437687997_ScreenShot01-22-21at03_44PM.PNG.0ad7b4668311030150e488f4f866852b.PNG

 

When they did an Anechoic measurement it looks to be closer to -18dB down by 10Hz - this is a pretty far cry from the claimed -3dB @ 11Hz - and that's the larger KF92 with a 40% larger cabinet and nearly double the  cone area of the KC62. 

2052901354_ScreenShot01-22-21at04_13PM.PNG.f36fb03b3ea6f2e567a4cb824b2043ef.PNG

 

 

 

 

Again..they  look like fine subs, especially if size and aesthetics are of primary concern, I just wish it was rated correctly by the manufacturer . From ~18Hz to 200Hz it looks very very  good

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44 minutes ago, jamiebosco said:

Again..they  look like fine subs, especially if size and aesthetics are of primary concern, I just wish it was rated correctly by the manufacturer . From ~18Hz to 200Hz it looks very very  good

Thank you for the posts, especially the measurements. Kef won't be the first, nor last vendor, to exaggerate things. Agree that they should have said 18 to 200.

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Yeah why gild the Lilly, 18 hz is pretty respectable.

 

Will be interesting to see what the smaller version can actually do, it’s truly tiny for a sub.

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Cubed ones:

SVS SB1000 - 345(H) x 330(W) x 355(D)

Rythmik L12 (might be a little too big?) - 355(H) x 355(W) x 393(D)

 

Slim rectangular:

Sigberg Audio INKOGNITO 12 - 170(H) x 540(W) x 650(D)

Sigberg Audio INKOGNITO 10 - 155(H) x 540(W) x 650(D)

s3-2.jpg.5f17e833fc54076da1a4123f32c4adfc.jpgSigberg-Audio-Inkognito-sofa.jpg.d31b605ab18650dac81229a1cc8e8b89.jpg

Paradigm MilleniaSub - 356(H) x 467(W) x 149(D)

 

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