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Doge 10 PADC: Anyone heard this amp?


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1 hour ago, Bronal said:

Sorry to appear ignorant, but who is 'Thomas'?  I assume he runs a YouTube channel...

 

Search Thomas & Stereo on Youtube.

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At least once every week since 2008. Need to keep my toobies happy. 😁

I'll write up something as soon as I get mine and broken in.  It got to Denver (45 miles away) yesterday morning at 0810 but it hasn't moved since.  I expect I'll get it Monday.  I have a broken in Wi

Mine is in Guangzhou and is about to head to the US.  Should be here in a couple of days.    I don't think my ears are good enough to here all the difference Thomas hears but I am a big fan

3 hours ago, lotoboy21 said:

They probably won't give you the schematic, but check with them on whether the two 12ax7s are in parallel or series.

 

Anyway, Thomas mentioned that the amp is on the "cooler" and "lean class A" side. Some people think the Gold Lion is a little bright. In theory, it could be too much, but one never knows until one puts them together. Let us know how you like the Gold Lion 12ax7 in this amp.

 

 

Messed up the post and can't delete it.

 

Edited by chinook9
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4 hours ago, lotoboy21 said:

They probably won't give you the schematic, but check with them on whether the two 12ax7s are in parallel or series.

 

I will check with Marc on the schematic after I get my amp.   

 

I've always assumed that there are two KT88s, one 12AX7, and one 12AT7 per channel in order to keep the channels as seperate as possible.  I believe the 12AT7  or 12AX7 are the preamp tube and phase inverter but I'm not sure which is which. 

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5 hours ago, chinook9 said:

I've always assumed that there are two KT88s, one 12AX7, and one 12AT7 per channel in order to keep the channels as seperate as possible.  I believe the 12AT7  or 12AX7 are the preamp tube and phase inverter but I'm not sure which is which. 

 

From the image below it appears the input stage uses the 12AX7 and the 12AT7 is the phase splitter. Therefore, changing the 12AX7 will have the most influence.

DOGE_10_INSIDE_CARRE.jpg

Edited by xlr8or
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3 hours ago, xlr8or said:

 

From the image below it appears the input stage uses the 12AX7 and the 12AT7 is the phase splitter. Therefore, changing the 12AX7 will have the most influence.

 

 

Thank you Kirk.  

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On 25/11/2020 at 6:40 AM, Jinster said:

 

This really bothers me.... Have you noticed all the reviewers pretty much review the same products? And they all "know" each other. Thomas, Z, Darko, Andrew, Steve, the Canadian sitting around bunch.

 

It's always Schiit Freya, Emotiva XPA, KEF LS50, Topping D90..... and now W R8...

 

And what they say is always the same: this thing performs as something else that costs this time as much.... if you chain them all together, you might just conclude that a $200 component is as good as a $1000 component, which is in turn as good as a $5000 product, which then competes with the $25k boys.

 

And I actually think there might be some truth in this. Scarily. Especially with the Chinese premium products these days.

 

And no reviewer ever says "meh, this is alright but nothing groundbreaking"; "can't really tell much of a difference" or "ok for the price but don't get your hopes up too much"... The reality is this is exactly how a lot of us feel after buying a "hyped" product.

 

I suspect these reviewers are all party to a marketing strategy by these same companies - companies directly, or the distributor, in Thoma's case.

If you are after transparency in reviews Simon Price of 13th Note Reviewer it is. Stereo companies hate his truth. He even critiqued Darko on his take on some of Darko's reviews. Price is brutally honest.

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Mine is in Guangzhou and is about to head to the US.  Should be here in a couple of days. 

 

I don't think my ears are good enough to here all the difference Thomas hears but I am a big fan of air and soundstage.  I listen to quite a few recordings solely because they are great recordings and with soundstage and air.  

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I have Audio Analogue integrated amplifier and looking for a long time to buy a tube amplifier. The ones that I have looked to is the Primaluna, Cayin and also the Willsenton R8. I'm not an expert, but It seems that this Doge 10 tube amplifier has everything mounted on the PCB including the tube sockets.  Due to the heat from the tubes and every time you take the tubes in and out of the sockets (tube rolling), you will flex the PCB. This could have a negative impact as PCB's can deteriorate over time due to the heat as the tube sockets are mounted on them. Even if the Doge 10 is sounding great how long will this last before hardware failure due to the points I just mentioned? Maybe the MTBF is high and no issues have been reported in the past, but reading a lot on tube amplifiers with point 2 point wiring for me it looks a better solution. Point 2 point wiring tube amplifiers are more  expensive to manufacture than PCB's one, but would point 2 point wiring not be more reliable? What are your thoughts on this? Rgds, Francisco

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52 minutes ago, alvarf said:

I have Audio Analogue integrated amplifier and looking for a long time to buy a tube amplifier. The ones that I have looked to is the Primaluna, Cayin and also the Willsenton R8. I'm not an expert, but It seems that this Doge 10 tube amplifier has everything mounted on the PCB including the tube sockets.  Due to the heat from the tubes and every time you take the tubes in and out of the sockets (tube rolling), you will flex the PCB. This could have a negative impact as PCB's can deteriorate over time due to the heat as the tube sockets are mounted on them. Even if the Doge 10 is sounding great how long will this last before hardware failure due to the points I just mentioned? Maybe the MTBF is high and no issues have been reported in the past, but reading a lot on tube amplifiers with point 2 point wiring for me it looks a better solution. Point 2 point wiring tube amplifiers are more  expensive to manufacture than PCB's one, but would point 2 point wiring not be more reliable? What are your thoughts on this? Rgds, Francisco

good point though..but how often does one tube roll....

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4 hours ago, 08Boss302 said:

 

 

 

No disrespect to Thomas but i tend to lose faith in youtube reviews that make claims it is the 'bestest' amp etc..   And kudos to him acknowledging this in the vid that this may not appeal to a lot of ppl.  

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26 minutes ago, MrBurns84 said:

 

 

No disrespect to Thomas but i tend to lose faith in youtube reviews that make claims it is the 'bestest' amp etc..   And kudos to him acknowledging this in the vid that this may not appeal to a lot of ppl.  

Seemed well argued reasons by Thomas as to why he see's the Doge as the 'bestest' amp...

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If you have the speakers for it and are looking for excellent “soundstage” and “air”, the Decware Zen Triode is where it’s at. 
 

American made, quality parts, and excellent reviews for its fast, airy qualities. 

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1 hour ago, crtexcnndrm99 said:

If you have the speakers for it and are looking for excellent “soundstage” and “air”

Soundstage and air are easier to acheive, if it gives a really good perception of depth... 👍

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I messaged Doge through Facebook messenger today asking if the 10 pacd has a pre out.  They messaged to say not yet but they are updating the spec on the website tonight for pre orders with a 10 pacd with pre out. 

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10 hours ago, MrBurns84 said:

good point though..but how often does one tube roll....

 

At least once every week since 2008. Need to keep my toobies happy. 😁

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Update on shipping time of Doge 10.  Ordered my Doge 10 on November 25.  Doge got it shipped in a couple of days, but, now, December 2nd (in US) it has been processed through to Hong Kong.  Next step should be flight to US but not holding my breath.  It seemed to take 5 days to get through Guangzhou to Hong Kong....Mainly processing because the distance is very short.

 

My Willsenton R-35i (by FedEx) was held on Lantau Island (where HKG is located) for 5 or 6 days.  There were a couple of Chinese holidays over that period but I'm not sure what part of the delay they caused. 

Edited by chinook9
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40 minutes ago, oksauce said:

Any listener reviews would be more than welcome.

 

I'll write up something as soon as I get mine and broken in.  It got to Denver (45 miles away) yesterday morning at 0810 but it hasn't moved since.  I expect I'll get it Monday.  I have a broken in Willsenton R-35i with EL34s.  I won't be able to give a good description of the differences but I will be able to tell you if I like it any better or not as much with the music I play.

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On 01/12/2020 at 11:45 AM, alvarf said:

I have Audio Analogue integrated amplifier and looking for a long time to buy a tube amplifier. The ones that I have looked to is the Primaluna, Cayin and also the Willsenton R8. I'm not an expert, but It seems that this Doge 10 tube amplifier has everything mounted on the PCB including the tube sockets.  Due to the heat from the tubes and every time you take the tubes in and out of the sockets (tube rolling), you will flex the PCB. This could have a negative impact as PCB's can deteriorate over time due to the heat as the tube sockets are mounted on them. Even if the Doge 10 is sounding great how long will this last before hardware failure due to the points I just mentioned? Maybe the MTBF is high and no issues have been reported in the past, but reading a lot on tube amplifiers with point 2 point wiring for me it looks a better solution. Point 2 point wiring tube amplifiers are more  expensive to manufacture than PCB's one, but would point 2 point wiring not be more reliable? What are your thoughts on this? Rgds, Francisco

Kevin Deal has been using this topic of not fixing valve sockets to the PCB for years to sell his Primaluna valve gear.

 

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On 05/12/2020 at 7:50 PM, chinook9 said:

 

I'll write up something as soon as I get mine and broken in.  It got to Denver (45 miles away) yesterday morning at 0810 but it hasn't moved since.  I expect I'll get it Monday.  I have a broken in Willsenton R-35i with EL34s.  I won't be able to give a good description of the differences but I will be able to tell you if I like it any better or not as much with the music I play.

 

I finally got my Doge 10 yesterday 14 days after I ordered it.  Doge got the order out in a couple of days, the rest of the time it was in the hands of DHL.  Good news, there were no duties requiring payment.   The amp was amazing well packed with a wooden plywood frame around the cardboard carton.  It took a while to get it off. 

 

I installed my own tubes, (JJ Blue Glass KT88,  Shuguang 12AX7, and 5 Star GE 12AT7WA) read the instructions quickly,  and fired it up.  The signs from the beginning were very good, however, after another look at the instructions I realized that the amp is actually semi-automatic biasing.  Before listening I should have gone through the process of checking (button on the remote)  the bias and the resetting (another button on the remote)  it.  When changing from Class A to Class AB, it is necessary to check and reset the bias again.  This morning I when through the biasing process and have had the amp running for a few 2 hour periods with soft music.  I've never heard elevator music sound so good. 

 

Tonight I will do more listening and put together some thoughts.

Edited by chinook9
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Latest Thomas 3-way comparison including Doge 10. Very informative and well done review in my opinion. It is a shame he is closing his channel down soon for a five month work related break.

 

 

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On 01/12/2020 at 6:30 PM, Janus77 said:

I messaged Doge through Facebook messenger today asking if the 10 pacd has a pre out.  They messaged to say not yet but they are updating the spec on the website tonight for pre orders with a 10 pacd with pre out. 

I just checked their website and there is no mention about pre-outs on the 10 pacd. Wonder if they are still at it?

Edited by ertorque
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Hi chikook9,

I bought a doge 10 a week ago and I’m selling it because I thought it was compatible with KT120. But that’s not the case. If you are interested in, tell me.
Anthony (from France)

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1 hour ago, Anthony A. said:

Hi chikook9,

I bought a doge 10 a week ago and I’m selling it because I thought it was compatible with KT120. But that’s not the case. If you are interested in, tell me.
Anthony (from France)

 

Sorry but I received mine a few days ago.  I haven't had a lot of time to break it in and listen but initially I would say it sounds very good.  I have the KT88 and may try some 6550 later.  I will also compare to my Willeston R-35i EL34 tubed amp.

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On 09/12/2020 at 9:07 AM, TerryO said:

Latest Thomas 3-way comparison including Doge 10. Very informative and well done review in my opinion. It is a shame he is closing his channel down soon for a five month work related break.

 

 

Think he realised what he stated and backtracked.. feels like he stepped on to many toes... IMHO

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6 hours ago, chinook9 said:

 

Sorry but I received mine a few days ago.  I haven't had a lot of time to break it in and listen but initially I would say it sounds very good.  I have the KT88 and may try some 6550 later.  I will also compare to my Willeston R-35i EL34 tubed amp.

can't wait to hear what you've got to say about the comparison!

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On 09/12/2020 at 8:35 AM, chinook9 said:

 

...........  Good news, there were no duties requiring payment.............

I'm glad this happened although how the heck did this happen?

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6 hours ago, Mauro said:

I'm glad this happened although how the heck did this happen?

Not sure.  I purchased a Willsenton amp from China HiFi and there was no duty on it either.  

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On 09/12/2020 at 5:20 PM, Anthony A. said:

Hi chikook9,

I bought a doge 10 a week ago and I’m selling it because I thought it was compatible with KT120. But that’s not the case. If you are interested in, tell me.
Anthony (from France)

 

Sorry but I received mine a few days ago.  I haven't had a lot of time to break it in and listen but initially I would say it sounds very good.  I have the KT88 and may try some 6550 later.  I will also compare to my Willeston R-35i EL34 tubed amp.

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Sorry I haven't posted any type of review but I have been trying so many different tube and setting combinations that I have not made any firm conclusions yet except that the Doge 10 is a superb amplifier with a great deal of flexibility in settings.  I also want to try a few different sound levels because this can have a significant effect also.

 

I believe I like class A better but I have not spent a lot of time with class AB.  I have tried a couple of different feedback settings but have not reached any definite conclusions on which I like the most.  A couple of things clear about this amp are that the soundstage is very deep, wide,  and airy.  If you have good recordings with echos, such as "The Wind That Shakes the Barley" by Dead Can Dance, you may be in awe.  I have heard sounds, or what I think of as texture, that I have not heard with any other amp.  The soundstage can be very deep with precise placement and , even with KT88s, the vocals sound like those I have heard from my EL34s.  I will compare to my EL34 amp in the near future.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just sharing my initial impression and echoing Mr. Chinook9's assessment of the Doge 10 that it is a very high quality built and nice sounding amplifier.  

 

My set up consists of 3 Rotel amps and a preamp driving a B&W 7.2 theater system. This is my first tube amp that has more than 2 watts of power.  I also have a X10 tube buffer prior.   Using the unit with factory tubes - class A and normal feedback mode powered a pair of B&W 802D plus a Topping D10 DAC via usb streaming and a Oppo 105D as the CD/SACD transport .  The Doge 10 power was more than adequate.  The volume knob is set mostly between 9 (comfortable) and 11 (loud) o' clock.  Big differences between initial (the sound was "harsh" and veiled) and after 60+ hours  of burn-in.   My feedback is similar to Thomas's (Youtube Reviewer) description:  "airiness", deep and  spacious sound stage.  Took a few minutes to figure out the “check” and “bias” settings and switched between class A and AB. Had to read the manual.  The sound is not overly "tubish".  That is a good thing IMHO as it can introduce fatigue if it is too much once the initial euphoric is worn off. This is definitely not a in-your-face amp.    

 

I used 3 tracks (first 2 via D90, third via 105D) test. 1) Listening to Keiko Matsui Water Lily (Piano) https://youtu.be/7O4bvGsOzOQ, the bright piano sounded more natural than the Rotel;  the notes seem to linger in the air longer.  Only a tube amp can produce such pleasant reverberation. 2) Vocal:  Pink Martini (1969) - Wasuretainoni (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceBxWe9yj4Q),  Sarori Yuki's voice control and  texture were simply an oh-my-kimchee experience. The bells - oh my the bells. I don't recall my decade old 802Ds sounded this good with bells before.  3)  "Best Audiophile Voices" JVC xrcd2 track #3 -  "So Nice" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzwHzAh7iyU) This simple quiet song illustrates positioning and layering. The Dodge did very well. The fullness of Tomlinson's tenor saxophone is at full display. The amp is dead _quiet_.  The only hum that I can hear is when I place my ear near the transformer.  As expected, the Rotel amps have much more raw "kicks'' while the Doge is all about finesse.  Since I have been mostly listening to streaming via the D90, I don't have enough empirical data but it does seem the Doge 10 (or is it the D90 - also new and don't have enough listening time yet) pushes the vocal a few feet behind. Courtesy of the 3 feedback modes and 2 difference classes, lots of options to experiment ahead during the holiday.


I also ordered the PSVane TII tube upgrades and may yield even better performance but won’t know until I get them.  Wanted to note that Marc@ Doge has been providing fantastic support; he answered  all of my questions quickly.  The next product (next Xmas LOL)  I am considering is the Doge 7 Clarify DAC. Would love to hear your assessment of the Doge products also.  

Doge 10.PNG

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On 25/12/2020 at 10:55 AM, Purple And Gold said:

Just sharing my initial impression and echoing Mr. Chinook9's assessment of the Doge 10 that it is a very high quality built and nice sounding amplifier.  


I also ordered the PSVane TII tube upgrades and may yield even better performance but won’t know until I get them.  Wanted to note that Marc@ Doge has been providing fantastic support; he answered  all of my questions quickly.  The next product (next Xmas LOL)  I am considering is the Doge 7 Clarify DAC. Would love to hear your assessment of the Doge products also.  

 

 

Looking forward to hearing your impressions of the Doge 10, especially after you receive your Psvane TII.

 

I purchased my Doge 10 without tubes.  I started with JJ blue Glass KT88 and right now thats the only power tubes I have.  I have a quad of used Svetlana SED Winged C 6550C on the way.   I have tried a few 12AX7.  One of these was the Genelex Gold Lion which I really like but I recently received a new set of Psvane TII.  The TII blew me away immediately but I hesitate to say too much because there are so many variables (A/AB, Feedback,  OS/NOS with Denafrips Ares II)  and I am not consistent with my settings. I plan to switch between the Psvane and the Gold Lion and see if I can describe the differences.  My immediate perception was that the Psvane was clear and "pristine" with quiet black background unlike any tube I had previously heard. 

 

I had a couple of used NOS 6201 that I used in the 12AU7 slot but I recently replaced these with new set of 1950s Sylvania 12AT7WA.  Except for the used tubes, most of mine still have quite a way o go to burn in. 

 

I am really interested in your experience with the Psvane TII...I'm assuming these are power tubes.  I had a chance to buy a quad of these for $150 and didn't do it. ...maybe a big mistake.

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9 hours ago, Wayne Clements said:

just curious, i see on the website compatible with your country voltage, i don't see a box to select though, i presume the company will the postage address and pack according ?

I have purchased q couple of chinese components where I specified the voltage but in the case of the Doge 10 I believe you are right.  If there was a space on the order form I would still specify the voltage however.  I have read anecdotes of buyers receiving the wrong voltage.

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