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Doge 10 PADC: Anyone heard this amp?


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On 23/11/2020 at 8:57 AM, Paul R said:

I own the Doge 8 Clarity preamp (2017). Well built and sounds sublime with the right tubes. Tube rolling is a must. I am using Haltron 12 AX7s in the phono stage and Mullard CV4024s in the line stage.

 

Can you share some photos of the Haltron 12AX7/ECC83 valves and Mullard 12AT7/ECC81 valves you have? Haltron never manufactured valves but typically would purchase them from different manufacturers predominantly in the UK and EU and relabel them before onselling them as their own. Some treasures can be found in the Haltron range. Are the Mullard CV4024's Blackburn or Mitcham production?

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2 hours ago, xlr8or said:

 

Congratulations on the purchase - fun times ahead. ??? If you need any tube rolling advice feel free to reach out as these units respond very well to the touch of vintage human warmth livening things up. ???

 

What speakers will you be using with the 30 watt Class A and 60 watt Class AB power outputs?

 

I have Tekton Electrons, the upgraded version.  I also have some Wharfdale Evo 4.2  that I will try at some point.

 

I am very interested to see if there is duty on this amp.  I've never paid duty in the past but things can change.  If duty is particularly high

, this amp will have to be superb to warrant a flock of purchases from the US.  Shipping was $319 and duty could be more than that, going over $2000.  We'll see.

 

Now I'm in the market for KT88 and 12AT7 tubes. 

 

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21 hours ago, chinook9 said:

Now I'm in the market for KT88 and 12AT7 tubes. 

 

 

Is the amp arriving with or without tubes? If it's the former allow around 200 hours on the supplied KT88's and 12AT7's to identify their house signature sound. The golden period to evaluate a tube's sound is typically after 90 minutes from turning on the amp. When you first get the amp leave the tubes powered on for 48 hours with or without a signal passing through.

 

If it's the latter and it arrives without tubes, the Genalex KT88 Russian made tubes are good as are vintage mid-1950's Brimar 980 coded triple mica square getter 6060 or 12AT7WA tubes for the 12AT7 position.

 

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Edited by xlr8or
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I will say that Thomas is usually quite restrained with his comments and using words to oversell or overhype a product.  I will also say I that Jay (TNBT), Sean (ZF) and Thomas all seem to be close friends (relatively speaking in their industry) and they support each other's channel.

 

I suggest if you watch their reviews then use it as a data point to inform your own opinions.   I ended up buying Maggie LRS planar panel open baffle speakers because of their view.   But I sought out a dealer and did my own demo and came to my own opinion that was close to their take.  That for $650 USD I could not find any other speakers that could match their performance.  TNBT had a series of reviews on speaker placement and amp synergies which I can confirm were all correct.   I ended up buying a Hegel H160 SS integrated and sumiko S.9 sub to pair.   The synergies have been great and Jay's input on speaker placement was spot on.   

 

Needless to say I'm interested in getting an "entry" level tube amp to drive this highly inefficient speakers (2.8 ohms).  This I need a tube that provides sufficient power and low enough ohms to drive the maggies in a medium size room.   Thomas liked the Wilsenton R8 but in the live stream with Sean (ZF) Thomas said they would not work with my Maggies.   He's now responded on Doge 10 and said he will test it with the LRS today.

 

My key points are these reviewers are friends so they share similar products to review as there are only limited options that the market is demanding.   Most people cannot afford the $10k USD options that ZF just reviewed (Accuphase E-480) so the reviewers follow their "market demand" to give quality options that are passable to acceptable in a hifi-system at $1k - $3k USD prices which many more can afford.   I will also say that at least for me their takes have been accurate and they build credibility when they recommend a product in general but still tell you not to buy it because it doesn't fit your needs.

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3 hours ago, xlr8or said:

 

Is the amp arriving with or without tubes? If it's the former allow around 200 hours on the supplied KT88's and 12AT7's to identify their house signature sound. The golden period to evaluate a tube's sound is typically after 90 minutes from turning on the amp. When you first get the amp leave the tubes powered on for 48 hours with or without a signal passing through.

 

If it's the latter and it arrives without tubes, the Genalex KT88 Russian made tubes are good as are vintage mid-1950's Brimar 980 coded triple mica square getter 6060 or 12AT7WA tubes for the 12AT7 position.

 

 

Ordered the amp without tubes.   I have some Gold Lion 12AX7, and also GE 5751 black plate triple mica that may work.  I ordered some NOS Sylvania 12AT7WA (1961)  which should be good and also GE 5 Star 12AT7 triple mica black/gray plate which I thought I'd try because they were cheap and may be useful.   As far as KT88, I've always liked Gold Lion but I will do some research.  I have read that JJ KT88 blue glass are good and the price is good on them also.

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3 hours ago, chinook9 said:

 

Ordered the amp without tubes.   I have some Gold Lion 12AX7, and also GE 5751 black plate triple mica that may work.  I ordered some NOS Sylvania 12AT7WA (1961)  which should be good and also GE 5 Star 12AT7 triple mica black/gray plate which I thought I'd try because they were cheap and may be useful.   As far as KT88, I've always liked Gold Lion but I will do some research.  I have read that JJ KT88 blue glass are good and the price is good on them also.

 

Great start with those tube choices. Considering your 4 and 8 ohm nominal speaker loads and the tube selections shared above you may find the sound targeting a more clinical sound over warmth. You may to want balance it up with some older vintage front end Shuguang square getter 12AX7A tubes, which can also be found cheap. Let us know how you get along with your new thermionic buddies. ???

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1 hour ago, chinook9 said:

Anyone know which of the tubes will make the most difference in the sound?  I assume its the 12AX7 or 12AU7 but not sure which are the main preamp tubes.

 

The first 12ax7, probably the one on the left. It has the most gain. They probably won't give you the schematic, but check with them on whether the two 12ax7s are in parallel or series. If they are in series, i.e., each of the L and R signals goes through half of the 2 12ax7s, you can put the GE 5751 in the first position and the Gold Lion 12ax7 in the second position, instead of 2 Gold Lions in both positions and vice versa. 

 

Anyway, Thomas mentioned that the amp is on the "cooler" and "lean class A" side. Some people think the Gold Lion is a little bright. In theory, it could be too much, but one never knows until one puts them together. Let us know how you like the Gold Lion 12ax7 in this amp.

 

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For those interested, Thomas mentioned that the 10 is one or two levels up from the Willsenton R8........ at almost twice the price.  Good to read that.  I was well aware of the price difference when I ordered mine.  

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3 hours ago, lotoboy21 said:

They probably won't give you the schematic, but check with them on whether the two 12ax7s are in parallel or series.

Doge supplied a schematic for the Doge 9 monoblocks to help me with my valve rolling decisions.

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3 hours ago, lotoboy21 said:

They probably won't give you the schematic, but check with them on whether the two 12ax7s are in parallel or series.

 

Anyway, Thomas mentioned that the amp is on the "cooler" and "lean class A" side. Some people think the Gold Lion is a little bright. In theory, it could be too much, but one never knows until one puts them together. Let us know how you like the Gold Lion 12ax7 in this amp.

 

 

Messed up the post and can't delete it.

 

Edited by chinook9
Mistake
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4 hours ago, lotoboy21 said:

They probably won't give you the schematic, but check with them on whether the two 12ax7s are in parallel or series.

 

I will check with Marc on the schematic after I get my amp.   

 

I've always assumed that there are two KT88s, one 12AX7, and one 12AT7 per channel in order to keep the channels as seperate as possible.  I believe the 12AT7  or 12AX7 are the preamp tube and phase inverter but I'm not sure which is which. 

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5 hours ago, chinook9 said:

I've always assumed that there are two KT88s, one 12AX7, and one 12AT7 per channel in order to keep the channels as seperate as possible.  I believe the 12AT7  or 12AX7 are the preamp tube and phase inverter but I'm not sure which is which. 

 

From the image below it appears the input stage uses the 12AX7 and the 12AT7 is the phase splitter. Therefore, changing the 12AX7 will have the most influence.

DOGE_10_INSIDE_CARRE.jpg

Edited by xlr8or
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3 hours ago, xlr8or said:

 

From the image below it appears the input stage uses the 12AX7 and the 12AT7 is the phase splitter. Therefore, changing the 12AX7 will have the most influence.

 

 

Thank you Kirk.  

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On 25/11/2020 at 6:40 AM, Jinster said:

 

This really bothers me.... Have you noticed all the reviewers pretty much review the same products? And they all "know" each other. Thomas, Z, Darko, Andrew, Steve, the Canadian sitting around bunch.

 

It's always Schiit Freya, Emotiva XPA, KEF LS50, Topping D90..... and now W R8...

 

And what they say is always the same: this thing performs as something else that costs this time as much.... if you chain them all together, you might just conclude that a $200 component is as good as a $1000 component, which is in turn as good as a $5000 product, which then competes with the $25k boys.

 

And I actually think there might be some truth in this. Scarily. Especially with the Chinese premium products these days.

 

And no reviewer ever says "meh, this is alright but nothing groundbreaking"; "can't really tell much of a difference" or "ok for the price but don't get your hopes up too much"... The reality is this is exactly how a lot of us feel after buying a "hyped" product.

 

I suspect these reviewers are all party to a marketing strategy by these same companies - companies directly, or the distributor, in Thoma's case.

If you are after transparency in reviews Simon Price of 13th Note Reviewer it is. Stereo companies hate his truth. He even critiqued Darko on his take on some of Darko's reviews. Price is brutally honest.

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Mine is in Guangzhou and is about to head to the US.  Should be here in a couple of days. 

 

I don't think my ears are good enough to here all the difference Thomas hears but I am a big fan of air and soundstage.  I listen to quite a few recordings solely because they are great recordings and with soundstage and air.  

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I have Audio Analogue integrated amplifier and looking for a long time to buy a tube amplifier. The ones that I have looked to is the Primaluna, Cayin and also the Willsenton R8. I'm not an expert, but It seems that this Doge 10 tube amplifier has everything mounted on the PCB including the tube sockets.  Due to the heat from the tubes and every time you take the tubes in and out of the sockets (tube rolling), you will flex the PCB. This could have a negative impact as PCB's can deteriorate over time due to the heat as the tube sockets are mounted on them. Even if the Doge 10 is sounding great how long will this last before hardware failure due to the points I just mentioned? Maybe the MTBF is high and no issues have been reported in the past, but reading a lot on tube amplifiers with point 2 point wiring for me it looks a better solution. Point 2 point wiring tube amplifiers are more  expensive to manufacture than PCB's one, but would point 2 point wiring not be more reliable? What are your thoughts on this? Rgds, Francisco

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