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Doge 10 PADC: Anyone heard this amp?


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I was considering the Willeston R8 until someone mentioned the Doge 10 PADC amp.  Could not find a single review but the writeup on the website makes it sound like a real possibility for me.  Has anyone heard it or any other Doge amp?  

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At least once every week since 2008. Need to keep my toobies happy. 😁

I'll write up something as soon as I get mine and broken in.  It got to Denver (45 miles away) yesterday morning at 0810 but it hasn't moved since.  I expect I'll get it Monday.  I have a broken in Wi

Mine is in Guangzhou and is about to head to the US.  Should be here in a couple of days.    I don't think my ears are good enough to here all the difference Thomas hears but I am a big fan

I own the Doge 8 Clarity preamp (2017). Well built and sounds sublime with the right tubes. Tube rolling is a must. I am using Haltron 12 AX7s in the phono stage and Mullard CV4024s in the line stage.

 

The only caution is that resale value might not be high.

 

They ship using DHL and the packaging is first class.

Edited by Paul R
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Thanks for the reply Paul.  I'm still studying the options.  I expect resale could be a real problem....but if I like it better than my existing amp its no issue.  We'll see.

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1 hour ago, Rakalel said:

The Doge preamps get picked up pretty quickly when they appear in the classifieds, not sure if it's a good resale value but they don't last long.

 

Good to know that.  Not sure its the same over here.  

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I'm considering buying one too and have been in communication with Marc at Doge over the last few weeks. He has been great with communication and answering lots of questions. I feel very confident about ordering from him and their warranty.

 

I have the R8, but want to add another tube integrated into the arsenal since I'm going to sell my A-S2100, which is now a backup to the R8. The nice thing is that it can be ordered without tubes. I already have some nice KT88s plus sets of all the preamp tubes here in my collection, so it save about $180. I would definitely get some socket savers, though, since this appears to be PCB mounted sockets and you do not want to be rolling without them on this kinds of build. I hope they are at least ceramic (I just asked). I like the notion of having two tube integrateds: The R8 tuned withNOS pres and modern EL84s and Doge tuned with NOS pres and modern KT88s. Also, I would think that the Doge could be capable of providing the current to power some LRS speakers too. I hope Thomas covers that in his video.

 

I have a feeling with Thomas' upcoming review, that this could possibly turn into a situation like the R8, where it became hyped and backordered. Oh, I also asked Marc if he plans on offering the Doge in all black. He said possibly in 2022. Personally, I think black would look much nicer (check out the all black Doge preamps - they look pretty sweet).

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I'm ready to buy another amp and I would like to wait for Thomas' review but I'm not sure he'll post it real soon.  On my youtube comment I asked if he would post the Doge 10 review in the next few days and he ignored the question.  He responded to the comments  before and after mine, but not mine.  Oh well.....

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, echorec said:

I have a feeling with Thomas' upcoming review, that this could possibly turn into a situation like the R8, where it became hyped and backordered. Oh, I also asked Marc if he plans on offering the Doge in all black. He said possibly in 2022. Personally, I think black would look much nicer (check out the all black Doge preamps - they look pretty sweet).

 

This really bothers me.... Have you noticed all the reviewers pretty much review the same products? And they all "know" each other. Thomas, Z, Darko, Andrew, Steve, the Canadian sitting around bunch.

 

It's always Schiit Freya, Emotiva XPA, KEF LS50, Topping D90..... and now W R8...

 

And what they say is always the same: this thing performs as something else that costs this time as much.... if you chain them all together, you might just conclude that a $200 component is as good as a $1000 component, which is in turn as good as a $5000 product, which then competes with the $25k boys.

 

And I actually think there might be some truth in this. Scarily. Especially with the Chinese premium products these days.

 

And no reviewer ever says "meh, this is alright but nothing groundbreaking"; "can't really tell much of a difference" or "ok for the price but don't get your hopes up too much"... The reality is this is exactly how a lot of us feel after buying a "hyped" product.

 

I suspect these reviewers are all party to a marketing strategy by these same companies - companies directly, or the distributor, in Thoma's case.

Edited by Jinster
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34 minutes ago, Jinster said:

 

This really bothers me.... Have you noticed all the reviewers pretty much review the same products? And they all "know" each other. Thomas, Z, Darko, Andrew, Steve, the Canadian sitting around bunch.

 

It's always Schiit Freya, Emotiva XPA, KEF LS50, Topping D90..... and now W R8...

 

And what they say is always the same: this thing performs as something else that costs this time as much.... if you chain them all together, you might just conclude that a $200 component is as good as a $1000 component, which is in turn as good as a $5000 product, which then competes with the $25k boys.

It seems to be that way, especially with the youtube reviewers.  They all support each other's channels and from time to time they seem to cycle through the same reviews...ie: dacs, then speakers, then onto the next thing etc.  I think its the expectation from followers that something new needs to be uploaded each week, which is kinda hard to achieve when you;re reviewing gear as part of a hifi channel.  And you're right @Jinster they always come to the same conclusion, its the best thing under $1k blanket statement etc, but it wont be up there with their high-end system of some sort.  Whilst there may some truth to this, horses for courses i say, which is what makes this hobby fun.  Eg:  I had a Schitt Freya mk1 for 4 months,  in Thomas's review, he thinks highly of it, it personally wasnt for me, maybe he managed to get it to sound good in his room/gear combo, but he's entitled to his opinion.  

 

45 minutes ago, Jinster said:

And no reviewer ever says "meh, this is alright but nothing groundbreaking"; "can't really tell much of a difference" or "ok for the price but don't get your hopes up too much"... The reality is this is exactly how a lot of us feel after buying a "hyped" product.

I suspect these reviewers are all party to a marketing strategy by these same companies - companies directly, or the distributor, in Thoma's case.

Its usually interesting if its declared upfront in a video, if the piece of gear reviewed was 'sent' by the manufacturer/distributor, or bought by the reviewer.  I suspect that in the case of the latter, you might hear a much fairer review.

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1 hour ago, chinook9 said:

I'm ready to buy another amp and I would like to wait for Thomas' review but I'm not sure he'll post it real soon.  On my youtube comment I asked if he would post the Doge 10 review in the next few days and he ignored the question.  He responded to the comments  before and after mine, but not mine.  Oh well.....

 

 

 

@chinook9 Well he did well to 'Doge'd that one :) 

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@Jinster They review these products because that is what their subscribers demand. Like many of the other products he tries, people have been begging Thomas to review the R8 on his community pages for months. IMO, Thomas is one of the most honest reviewers out there, taking a more philosophical and experience-based approach, and that is why a lot of people respect his opinions. I have followed him since the beginning of his journey and have learned a lot from his experiences. He doesn't speak fondly of every product.

 

The audio world is tough to navigate, especially for newer enthusiasts, and I believe many seek reviewers that they feel like they can trust. For me, Thomas' experiences with equipment I've owned mirrored my own experiences, so I feel like we are on the same page in terms of what we like out of audio.

 

The pandemic has many more people focused on improving their gear or perhaps building their first HiFi system. Gosh, I probably watch 10x more YouTube videos now than pre-pandemic. When there is almost no info or feedback on products like the R8 or Doge, for example, people seek anything they can to better understand what they are interested in buying or to validate their interests. I think this is a good thing.

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Agreed, Echorec and MrBurns.

 

I do find Thomas's review most enjoyable out of the whole bunch. He is more philosophical, more "reflective", and so the review itself makes for "soothing" viewing... like you have a buddy talking to you about your hobby. This is much the same effect the Top Gear guys imparted when they were still at BBC.

 

And one more thing about valve amps, not many people ever say "hey, this thing sounds spot on using the factory valves". Somehow, everyone is of the opinion that the manufacturer has gone to all the length to produce a good product to compete, only to leave the most obvious "gains" on the table for the tinkerers to easily grab - instead of supplying the "better" valves from factory to start with and price the product in a higher tier.

 

Like you, Echorec, I've been watching way too much youtube due to the pandemic. I've learnt lots, but also I am a bit over it. LOL

Edited by Jinster
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Got tired of waiting and ordered a Doge 10.   My birthday next week and Christmas is coming up so why not?

 

Ordered with cage and without tubes.  Now I can enjoy shopping for tubes.  I have reissure Mullard EL34s and Gold Lion 12ax7s I can use if necessary, but I want to try KT77s first.  Should be easy to find some good KT77s.

Edited by chinook9
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Good stuff and I agree why not! Good to lash out and spoil ourselves once in a while...

 

Let us know once it arrives and your thoughts 👍🏻

Edited by 08Boss302
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43 minutes ago, chinook9 said:

Got tired of waiting and ordered a Doge 10.   My birthday next week and Christmas is coming up so why not?

 

Ordered with cage and without tubes.  Now I can enjoy shopping for tubes.  I have reissure Mullard EL34s and Gold Lion 12ax7s I can use if necessary, but I want to try KT77s first.  Should be easy to find some good KT77s.

Did you order the Doge 10 or Doge 5? Did they tell you that the Doge 10 can take EL34 and KT77? Website only says 6550, KT88, and KT120.

Did they tell you how to pay the 25% tariff (US)? via DHL or Doge?

You don't have to pay it with Chinahifi, but with Doge, I think you have to pay for it since Doge declares the real value per their website, and anything above $800 is subjected to tariff.

 

I'm sure it's great as they say. Give us a review once you put enough hours into it. 

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41 minutes ago, lotoboy21 said:

Did you order the Doge 10 or Doge 5? Did they tell you that the Doge 10 can take EL34 and KT77? Website only says 6550, KT88, and KT120.

Did they tell you how to pay the 25% tariff (US)? via DHL or Doge?

You don't have to pay it with Chinahifi, but with Doge, I think you have to pay for it since Doge declares the real value per their website, and anything above $800 is subjected to tariff.

 

I'm sure it's great as they say. Give us a review once you put enough hours into it. 

When I bought the Doge 9 PAB, DHL's customs agent called me to arrange payment of GST + associated fees. Pretty straightforward and a receipt with a full breakdown of the transaction was attached to the Doge packaging.

Good question regarding the valve options for the Doge 10. The autobias is very precise so if EL34's aren't included in the circuit design, the autobias indicators will stay red. This setup also detects and rejects old or faulty valves once they get outside the processors bias parameters.

 

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5 hours ago, Jinster said:

And one more thing about valve amps, not many people ever say "hey, this thing sounds spot on using the factory valves". Somehow, everyone is of the opinion that the manufacturer has gone to all the length to produce a good product to compete, only to leave the most obvious "gains" on the table for the tinkerers to easily grab - instead of supplying the "better" valves from factory to start with and price the product in a higher tier.

Its pretty much a given these days as we love a good tweak...its simply irresistible to chase more for your dollar with a few simple tweaks here and there :)    I'm a fan of the MP gear which allows you to roll tubes and caps... a proverbial nightmare for the common listener or an OCD's dream.  But there's an element of truth to all these tweaking journeys...sometimes they come about 360 and end up back at the start, and the stock tubes and caps are a good 'acceptable' choice and the reality of there's no free lunch to these things.

Edited by MrBurns84
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My mistake, it does not take EL34s, however that should not be a problem.  I will have KT88 by then.  As far as customs/duties, it is what it is.  

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This amp will be hot selling soon, Thomas and Stereo building some real excitement about it this past week or so.   I love the Class A and Class A/B option, thats a real strong point IMO. 

I actually was not aware of this amp when I was choosing between the Willsenton R8 and the Muzishare X7, Its a bit dearer but I would have most certainly considered it.

I am happy with the R8 which I ultimately chose but the "class" switch option is great on this.

 

I'll watch the review once its out, Thomas is stating it is able to do things nothing else in class or above class he's reviewed can do so there will be some eager ears and credit cards on this amp soon I think.  Knowing the wave that occurred with the R8 and X7 earlier this year and is still continuing one can only assume the 10 PADC will be in that discussion too.

 

Did they provide you any timeframe for delivery?

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6 minutes ago, 08Boss302 said:

This amp will be hot selling soon, Thomas and Stereo building some real excitement about it this past week or so.   I love the Class A and Class A/B option, thats a real strong point IMO. 

I actually was not aware of this amp when I was choosing between the Willsenton R8 and the Muzishare X7, Its a bit dearer but I would have most certainly considered it.

I am happy with the R8 which I ultimately chose but the "class" switch option is great on this.

 

I'll watch the review once its out, Thomas is stating it is able to do things nothing else in class or above class he's reviewed can do so there will be some eager ears and credit cards on this amp soon I think.  Knowing the wave that occurred with the R8 and X7 earlier this year and is still continuing one can only assume the 10 PADC will be in that discussion too.

 

Did they provide you any timeframe for delivery?

 

I asked Marc about delivery about a week ago and my recollection is that it should be around 10 days total, depending on how buys DHL is. 

 

Also, I forgot on my previous post but I did get a response from Thomas and he hopes to have the review up by Monday.  If there is a rush, I guess I have beat it.

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I could be wrong, but I don't think this Doge 10 will be selling like hotcakes. Sure, there will be an initial rush right after the review, but Doge is still a relative unknown company out of China with internet direct model. It's a $2k amp, and there are quite a few better known and reputed companies, LM, Cayin, even Primaluna EVO 100, in that space. Finally, people who need/want a tube amp have been buying the R8s and X7s since March, and they don't have the money to buy another more expensive amp so soon.

 

Doge will sell the 10 more than before, though, but not at the R8 rate.

 

 

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On 23/11/2020 at 8:57 AM, Paul R said:

I own the Doge 8 Clarity preamp (2017). Well built and sounds sublime with the right tubes. Tube rolling is a must. I am using Haltron 12 AX7s in the phono stage and Mullard CV4024s in the line stage.

 

The only caution is that resale value might not be high.

 

They ship using DHL and the packaging is first class.

With resale, You lose LESS money on the  Chinese items than exotic brands because their buy price is so much cheaper in the first instance. Want to rip up some money?.. Go and buy some New Martin Logan ESL and sell them used. Same with cars.. Best Car for retaining value = Small Kia.. Worst = Lamborghini. 

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7 hours ago, chinook9 said:

My mistake, it does not take EL34s, however that should not be a problem.  I will have KT88 by then.  As far as customs/duties, it is what it is.  

 

Congratulations on the purchase - fun times ahead. 👍👍👍 If you need any tube rolling advice feel free to reach out as these units respond very well to the touch of vintage human warmth livening things up. 😁😁😁

 

What speakers will you be using with the 30 watt Class A and 60 watt Class AB power outputs?

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On 23/11/2020 at 8:57 AM, Paul R said:

I own the Doge 8 Clarity preamp (2017). Well built and sounds sublime with the right tubes. Tube rolling is a must. I am using Haltron 12 AX7s in the phono stage and Mullard CV4024s in the line stage.

 

Can you share some photos of the Haltron 12AX7/ECC83 valves and Mullard 12AT7/ECC81 valves you have? Haltron never manufactured valves but typically would purchase them from different manufacturers predominantly in the UK and EU and relabel them before onselling them as their own. Some treasures can be found in the Haltron range. Are the Mullard CV4024's Blackburn or Mitcham production?

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2 hours ago, xlr8or said:

 

Congratulations on the purchase - fun times ahead. 👍👍👍 If you need any tube rolling advice feel free to reach out as these units respond very well to the touch of vintage human warmth livening things up. 😁😁😁

 

What speakers will you be using with the 30 watt Class A and 60 watt Class AB power outputs?

 

I have Tekton Electrons, the upgraded version.  I also have some Wharfdale Evo 4.2  that I will try at some point.

 

I am very interested to see if there is duty on this amp.  I've never paid duty in the past but things can change.  If duty is particularly high

, this amp will have to be superb to warrant a flock of purchases from the US.  Shipping was $319 and duty could be more than that, going over $2000.  We'll see.

 

Now I'm in the market for KT88 and 12AT7 tubes. 

 

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21 hours ago, chinook9 said:

Now I'm in the market for KT88 and 12AT7 tubes. 

 

 

Is the amp arriving with or without tubes? If it's the former allow around 200 hours on the supplied KT88's and 12AT7's to identify their house signature sound. The golden period to evaluate a tube's sound is typically after 90 minutes from turning on the amp. When you first get the amp leave the tubes powered on for 48 hours with or without a signal passing through.

 

If it's the latter and it arrives without tubes, the Genalex KT88 Russian made tubes are good as are vintage mid-1950's Brimar 980 coded triple mica square getter 6060 or 12AT7WA tubes for the 12AT7 position.

 

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Edited by xlr8or
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I will say that Thomas is usually quite restrained with his comments and using words to oversell or overhype a product.  I will also say I that Jay (TNBT), Sean (ZF) and Thomas all seem to be close friends (relatively speaking in their industry) and they support each other's channel.

 

I suggest if you watch their reviews then use it as a data point to inform your own opinions.   I ended up buying Maggie LRS planar panel open baffle speakers because of their view.   But I sought out a dealer and did my own demo and came to my own opinion that was close to their take.  That for $650 USD I could not find any other speakers that could match their performance.  TNBT had a series of reviews on speaker placement and amp synergies which I can confirm were all correct.   I ended up buying a Hegel H160 SS integrated and sumiko S.9 sub to pair.   The synergies have been great and Jay's input on speaker placement was spot on.   

 

Needless to say I'm interested in getting an "entry" level tube amp to drive this highly inefficient speakers (2.8 ohms).  This I need a tube that provides sufficient power and low enough ohms to drive the maggies in a medium size room.   Thomas liked the Wilsenton R8 but in the live stream with Sean (ZF) Thomas said they would not work with my Maggies.   He's now responded on Doge 10 and said he will test it with the LRS today.

 

My key points are these reviewers are friends so they share similar products to review as there are only limited options that the market is demanding.   Most people cannot afford the $10k USD options that ZF just reviewed (Accuphase E-480) so the reviewers follow their "market demand" to give quality options that are passable to acceptable in a hifi-system at $1k - $3k USD prices which many more can afford.   I will also say that at least for me their takes have been accurate and they build credibility when they recommend a product in general but still tell you not to buy it because it doesn't fit your needs.

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3 hours ago, xlr8or said:

 

Is the amp arriving with or without tubes? If it's the former allow around 200 hours on the supplied KT88's and 12AT7's to identify their house signature sound. The golden period to evaluate a tube's sound is typically after 90 minutes from turning on the amp. When you first get the amp leave the tubes powered on for 48 hours with or without a signal passing through.

 

If it's the latter and it arrives without tubes, the Genalex KT88 Russian made tubes are good as are vintage mid-1950's Brimar 980 coded triple mica square getter 6060 or 12AT7WA tubes for the 12AT7 position.

 

 

Ordered the amp without tubes.   I have some Gold Lion 12AX7, and also GE 5751 black plate triple mica that may work.  I ordered some NOS Sylvania 12AT7WA (1961)  which should be good and also GE 5 Star 12AT7 triple mica black/gray plate which I thought I'd try because they were cheap and may be useful.   As far as KT88, I've always liked Gold Lion but I will do some research.  I have read that JJ KT88 blue glass are good and the price is good on them also.

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3 hours ago, chinook9 said:

 

Ordered the amp without tubes.   I have some Gold Lion 12AX7, and also GE 5751 black plate triple mica that may work.  I ordered some NOS Sylvania 12AT7WA (1961)  which should be good and also GE 5 Star 12AT7 triple mica black/gray plate which I thought I'd try because they were cheap and may be useful.   As far as KT88, I've always liked Gold Lion but I will do some research.  I have read that JJ KT88 blue glass are good and the price is good on them also.

 

Great start with those tube choices. Considering your 4 and 8 ohm nominal speaker loads and the tube selections shared above you may find the sound targeting a more clinical sound over warmth. You may to want balance it up with some older vintage front end Shuguang square getter 12AX7A tubes, which can also be found cheap. Let us know how you get along with your new thermionic buddies. 👍👍👍

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Anyone know which of the tubes will make the most difference in the sound?  I assume its the 12AX7 or 12AU7 but not sure which are the main preamp tubes.

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1 hour ago, chinook9 said:

Anyone know which of the tubes will make the most difference in the sound?  I assume its the 12AX7 or 12AU7 but not sure which are the main preamp tubes.

 

The first 12ax7, probably the one on the left. It has the most gain. They probably won't give you the schematic, but check with them on whether the two 12ax7s are in parallel or series. If they are in series, i.e., each of the L and R signals goes through half of the 2 12ax7s, you can put the GE 5751 in the first position and the Gold Lion 12ax7 in the second position, instead of 2 Gold Lions in both positions and vice versa. 

 

Anyway, Thomas mentioned that the amp is on the "cooler" and "lean class A" side. Some people think the Gold Lion is a little bright. In theory, it could be too much, but one never knows until one puts them together. Let us know how you like the Gold Lion 12ax7 in this amp.

 

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For those interested, Thomas mentioned that the 10 is one or two levels up from the Willsenton R8........ at almost twice the price.  Good to read that.  I was well aware of the price difference when I ordered mine.  

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3 hours ago, lotoboy21 said:

They probably won't give you the schematic, but check with them on whether the two 12ax7s are in parallel or series.

Doge supplied a schematic for the Doge 9 monoblocks to help me with my valve rolling decisions.

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