Jump to content

Is this OK? New cart requiring maximum VTF


Recommended Posts

I recently organised somebody to fit a Kiseki Purple Heart to my Rega P6.  Thought I would test the limits of this turntable/arm and purchase a cart that I could use on my next TT purchase.

 

What I have found is that I get distortion in one of the channels unless the tracking force is set to the maximum allowable (2.6g).  It seems other people seemed to have good sound using the recommended tracking force (around 2.4g)

 

Is this normal/OK?  I've checked and the point where the stylus runs across the record is level.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 119
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

The one good use for a CD, Chris - use the shiny side as a mirror!    (Put the CD on a thin LP, shiny side up ... and then, with the stylus on the CD, look front on at the headshell.  You are hoping t

It's been a long day.  After housework duties, Geoff from HeyNow HiFi and Paul came along for a few hours and we tirelessly listened to records to replicate issues.  While none of Paul's own personal

I thought I told you to go annoy someone else? Anyhow, I'm pleased you're not going to be responding to anymore of my posts and I'll let you get back to doing what you're obviously very good at.......

37 minutes ago, qik_shift said:

 

What I have found is that I get distortion in one of the channels unless the tracking force is set to the maximum allowable (2.6g).  It seems other people seemed to have good sound using the recommended tracking force (around 2.4g)

 

Is this normal/OK?

 

 

Have you got the correct bias setting?

 

Andy

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

Have you got the correct bias setting?

 

Andy

 

 

As I've organised somebody to set it up for me, I'm not entirely sure.  I've checked that the record is dead level along the arc of the stylus.

 

From doing a blank record check, towards the end of a record, it slowly makes its way to the spindle (which from what I understand it tells me bias isn't "majorly" off.

 

Actually I'm noticing mild distortion in the left speaker even with the maximum tracking force.  It seems if I go another ~0.1g the distortion goes away but I'm reluctant to do this for obvious reasons.

 

I wonder if the only way to cure my OCD in this space is to have somebody else verify that everything has been set OK by looking at the unit in my home to make sure all is OK in my current setting.

Edited by qik_shift
Link to post
Share on other sites


11 minutes ago, Billy Shears said:

Is it level?

Yes along the arc of the stylus it's spot on.  In other places of the record it's juuuust out but I assume I should focus on the arc.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting - I've just moved antiskate levels lower (a lot lower just as an experiment) and the sound improves significantly.  But then the stylus moves rapidly towards the spindle on a blank record.  Arrgh.  

 

Just returned it back to exactly where it was just for now, as I assume the rapid movement to the spindle means there is too much bias towards the inner groove and would cause long term damage.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, qik_shift said:

But then the stylus moves rapidly towards the spindle on a blank record.  Arrgh.  

 

Just returned it back to exactly where it was just for now, as I assume the rapid movement to the spindle means there is too much bias

 

Actually no,  a blank record is not really a valid test of bias setting.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites


10 hours ago, audiofeline said:

Is the cart's compliance suitable for the arm's mass?

My calculations show compliance is better with this cart than my previous one and there were no distortion issues.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, aussievintage said:

 

Actually no,  a blank record is not really a valid test of bias setting.

I can see the can of worms topic has appeared :)  What I couldn't find on SNA was the method I should be following then.  My understanding is that the blank record method should be used to roughly get you there and then you should fine tune by ear. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, qik_shift said:

Interesting - I've just moved antiskate levels lower (a lot lower just as an experiment) and the sound improves significantly.  But then the stylus moves rapidly towards the spindle on a blank record.  Arrgh.  

 

Just returned it back to exactly where it was just for now, as I assume the rapid movement to the spindle means there is too much bias towards the inner groove and would cause long term damage.

 

 

Hello Chris,

 

Are you trying different records for this distortion test? Are you sure the distortion is not coming from the record? 

 

It does sound like a bias/antiskate issue, provided the cartridge is A1 and not worn or damaged.

 

Do you have a test record, such as the Hi Fi News Test Record, which will allow you to set your bias/antiskate correctly?

 

If the stylus is moving quickly toward the inner grooves/spindle/label that does not mean too much bias applied, it means not enough bias applied!! Re set your bias/antiskate and can you check the azimuth is correct too?

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

Edited by cheekyboy
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, qik_shift said:

I can see the can of worms topic has appeared :)  What I couldn't find on SNA was the method I should be following then.  My understanding is that the blank record method should be used to roughly get you there and then you should fine tune by ear. 

 

Does your anti-skate system have a rough calibration method?  Some have numbers that you set approx. equal to tracking force, others have notches that are about 1/2 gram each.   I use this to set it approximately - usually setting it a little light.  Then I tune by ear.    I don't find the blank record helpful as it usually results in a very different setting to the one that sounds right.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites


50 minutes ago, cheekyboy said:

 

Hello Chris,

 

Are you trying different records for this distortion test? Are you sure the distortion is not coming from the record? 

 

It does sound like a bias/antiskate issue, provided the cartridge is A1 and not worn or damaged.

 

Do you have a test record, such as the Hi Fi News Test Record, which will allow you to set your bias/antiskate correctly?

 

If the stylus is moving quickly toward the inner grooves/spindle/label that does not mean too much bias applied, it means not enough bias applied!! Re set your bias/antiskate and can you check the azimuth is correct too?

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

Hey Keith,

 

Yeah I'm quite confident distortion isn't coming from the record - it's happening to about 30% of my whole record collection and this issue didn't occur with my previous cartridge.

 

It's a brand new item, so unlikely worn or damaged.

 

I purchased an analogue productions test record earlier this week and it should be delivered today. I'll let you know how that goes. 

 

I have no fozgometer to check azimuth unfortunately.  Any other ways I can check azimuth?

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, qik_shift said:

Hey Keith,

 

Yeah I'm quite confident distortion isn't coming from the record - it's happening to about 30% of my whole record collection and this issue didn't occur with my previous cartridge.

 

It's a brand new item, so unlikely worn or damaged.

 

I purchased an analogue productions test record earlier this week and it should be delivered today. I'll let you know how that goes. 

 

I have no fozgometer to check azimuth unfortunately.  Any other ways I can check azimuth?

 

Hello Chris,

 

I don't know about a fozgometer [sounds like something from outer space:lol:] but you could use a mirror.:thumb: I'm guessing your tonearm is an RB600 or RB700 and I'm not sure they allow you to adjust azimuth at the arm, but you could do this at the headshell.

 

Does the Analogue Productions test record have a bias test track/s? The more you increase VTF the more you'll increase bias because it is a dynamic function. Using a blank LP takes away that dynamic because the stylus is not in contact with a record groove and adjusting that way could cause you to over compensate anway. Probably the easiest way to check your bias is to observe the stylus as the last track finishes on the record and as it moves to the lead out area at the end of the record. If the stylus moves slowly inward toward the spindle/label, I would say your bias setting is pretty well spot on.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

Edited by cheekyboy
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, qik_shift said:

 

I have no fozgometer to check azimuth unfortunately.  Any other ways I can check azimuth?

 

 

The one good use for a CD, Chris - use the shiny side as a mirror!  xD  (Put the CD on a thin LP, shiny side up ... and then, with the stylus on the CD, look front on at the headshell.  You are hoping to see the cantilever - and its reflection - appear as a straight line.)

 

Now that lockdown is over, as you're in Melbourne ... howsabout I come over and have a look at your setup?  I'll bring my tools.  :)

 

Andy

 

Edited by andyr
  • Like 8
  • Love 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, andyr said:

 

The one good use for a CD, Chris - use the shiny side as a mirror!  xD  (Put the CD on a thin LP, shiny side up ... and then, with the stylus on the CD, look front on at the headshell.  You are hoping to see the cantilever - and its reflection - appear as a straight line.)

 

Now that lockdown is over, as you're in Melbourne ... howsabout I come over and have a look at your setup?  I'll bring my tools.  :)

 

Andy

 

 

That is a very nice offer Andy as I am sure you will be able to ascertain if its a setup or cartridge issue.

  Bring one of your phono's over as well 🙂

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites


2 hours ago, andyr said:

 

The one good use for a CD, Chris - use the shiny side as a mirror!  xD  (Put the CD on a thin LP, shiny side up ... and then, with the stylus on the CD, look front on at the headshell.  You are hoping to see the cantilever - and its reflection - appear as a straight line.)

 

Now that lockdown is over, as you're in Melbourne ... howsabout I come over and have a look at your setup?  I'll bring my tools.  :)

 

Andy

 

Hey Andy,

 

Bahahahaha!  That makes for a lot of mirrors in my collection.  Pity because I'll break them all if I look at them. I don't have the greatest eyes but it does look dead straight to me.  I find it interesting that the diamond doesn't look symmetrical - slightly lopsided.   Photo below - taking one was also a challenge when phone so magnified.  

 

I have decided to give my retailer and turntable tuner an opportunity to look first.  They have offered to come to my house in person to remedy the situation - so there's some great service there.

 

Your generous offer is amazing Andy.  This is why I still invest time and energy into forums - people like you make this place such a great one to be.  I'll let you know how things go after this Saturday.

 

685F7710-6BCE-48FD-B44F-22D394676C24.thumb.jpeg.e06e5ec567c7f01d3e9360f3c1972e0e.jpeg

 

Cheers,

Chris

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, qik_shift said:

Hey Andy,

 

Bahahahaha!  That makes for a lot of mirrors in my collection.  Pity because I'll break them all if I look at them. I don't have the greatest eyes but it does look dead straight to me.  I find it interesting that the diamond doesn't look symmetrical - slightly lopsided.   Photo below - taking one was also a challenge when phone so magnified. 

 

685F7710-6BCE-48FD-B44F-22D394676C24.thumb.jpeg.e06e5ec567c7f01d3e9360f3c1972e0e.jpeg

 

 

Yes, pretty damn straight to me.  :)

 

Whether or not the diamond stylus is set 'true' on the cantilever is of course the key issue.  A Fozgometer is a not-too-expensive method of determining this - but only useful if your arm allows azimuth adjustment.  :(

 

But the software-based tools are the ultimate method for setting optimal azimuth ... unfortunately, they involve considerable (well, 'considerable' to me, as an old retired gent  :) ) coin.  :(

 

12 minutes ago, qik_shift said:

I have decided to give my retailer and turntable tuner an opportunity to look first.  They have offered to come to my house in person to remedy the situation - so there's some great service there.

 

Indeed, great service.  Make sure they listen to what you are hearing first - ie. before they start fiddling.

 

I'm interested to know the retailer and TT tuner; if that is Melbourne Audio and my mate Rick Powell is involved ... I am confident he will be able to uncover your issue.  :thumb:

 

12 minutes ago, qik_shift said:

Your generous offer is amazing Andy.  This is why I still invest time and energy into forums - people like you make this place such a great one to be.  I'll let you know how things go after this Saturday.

 

Cheers,

Chris

 

I would certainly like to know your outcome, Chris.

 

On a related - but independent - issue ... what have you set your phono stage loading at, for your Purple Heart?  The specs recommend a loading of 400 ohms - but that is actually the minimum loading!  The specs also tell me the coil impedance is 42 ohms - so I would expect the optimum loading will be anywhere between 420 ohms (10x) and 4200 ohms (100x).

 

Andy

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Chris, A buzz in the Left spk is caused by too much bias jamming the stylus against the outside of the groove

which is the RH channel so the bias is not even on both channels.  As far as i can tell as photo is not square on

it all looks good. I may not worry too much if TW. 2.4 or 2.6g for a Rega Arm as few people actually achieve dead 

accurate measure - but i would have  liked to know the Minumin setting to get full perspective.

Apply bias till buzz stops in Left chan and it will now be correct.  How ever if you end up with a Faint buzz in 

in both channels this indicates you need a very slight increase in TW. ( Try to carry this out at 2.4g )

If the final TW. setting is not very close to recommended this means your arm does not track this cartridge or

your sample is not one of the better ones - so dont get caught up in any double talk.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, andyr said:

 

 

Yes, pretty damn straight to me.  :)

 

Whether or not the diamond stylus is set 'true' on the cantilever is of course the key issue.  A Fozgometer is a not-too-expensive method of determining this - but only useful if your arm allows azimuth adjustment.  :(

 

But the software-based tools are the ultimate method for setting optimal azimuth ... unfortunately, they involve considerable (well, 'considerable' to me, as an old retired gent  :) ) coin.  :(

 

Indeed, great service.  Make sure they listen to what you are hearing first - ie. before they start fiddling.

 

I'm interested to know the retailer and TT tuner; if that is Melbourne Audio and my mate Rick Powell is involved ... I am confident he will be able to uncover your issue.  :thumb:

 

I would certainly like to know your outcome, Chris.

On a related - but independent - issue ... what have you set your phono stage loading at, for your Purple Heart?  The specs recommend a loading of 400 ohms - but that is actually the minimum loading!  The specs also tell me the coil impedance is 42 ohms - so I would expect the optimum loading will be anywhere between 420 ohms (10x) and 4200 ohms (100x).

 

Andy

 

 

Hey Andy,

 

Sorry work and dinner got in the way of me responding promptly.

 

Yep no azimuth adjustment, but nothing to stop some shimming activity if needed I suppose to achieve the right outcome.

 

Retailer is HeyNow HiFi.  So far been super happy with Geoff.  Even the lengths he is going to get himself and the TT tuner into my home on short notice is another good sign.  The tuner's name wasn't Rick Powell.  I will keep Rick's name in my memory banks for the future if needed though for sure.

 

I have set both L & R channels to 800 ohms which is apparently the sweet spot for most people.  I can crank up to 1,000 ohms if needed - definitely not 4,200!

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, qik_shift said:

Hey Andy,

 

Sorry work and dinner got in the way of me responding promptly.

 

Absolutely NP, Chris.  :)

 

Quote

 

I have set both L & R channels to 800 ohms which is apparently the sweet spot for most people.  I can crank up to 1,000 ohms if needed - definitely not 4,200!

 

 

Try a swap between those two options ... and please tell me which you prefer.  :thumb:  (There's not much difference between them - so you may find it hard to decide.)

 

Andy

 

Edited by andyr
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Richard Tremain said:

Hi Chris, A buzz in the Left spk is caused by too much bias jamming the stylus against the outside of the groove

which is the RH channel so the bias is not even on both channels.  As far as i can tell as photo is not square on

it all looks good. I may not worry too much if TW. 2.4 or 2.6g for a Rega Arm as few people actually achieve dead 

accurate measure - but i would have  liked to know the Minumin setting to get full perspective.

Apply bias till buzz stops in Left chan and it will now be correct.  How ever if you end up with a Faint buzz in 

in both channels this indicates you need a very slight increase in TW. ( Try to carry this out at 2.4g )

If the final TW. setting is not very close to recommended this means your arm does not track this cartridge or

your sample is not one of the better ones - so dont get caught up in any double talk.

 

Yeah that's the strange thing - others seem to run around 2.4 without problem.  Sound gets better as I reach 2.6 - but seems to need more.   

 

When I try applying more bias - the sound seems to get worse.   I know there's too much at this point because when dropping the needle at the end of the record, it fairly quickly makes its way back to the music.  Strangely reducing bias significantly results in the best sound.

 

It's possible that there's a cartridge alignment issue too I suppose......

Edited by qik_shift
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, andyr said:

Try a swap between those two options ... and please tell me which you prefer.  :thumb:  (There's not much difference between them - so you may find it hard to decide.)

Will give it a go on Saturday.  Now not keen to play vinyl as I could be causing damage.  Will report back :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, qik_shift said:

Will give it a go on Saturday.  Now not keen to play vinyl as I could be causing damage.  Will report back :)

 

Understood!  :)

 

Thanks,

Andy

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, qik_shift said:

Yeah that's the strange thing - others seem to run around 2.4 without problem.  Sound gets better as I reach 2.6 - but seems to need more.   

 

When I try applying more bias - the sound seems to get worse.   I know there's too much at this point because when dropping the needle at the end of the record, it fairly quickly makes its way back to the music.  Strangely reducing bias significantly results in the best sound.

 

It's possible that there's a cartridge alignment issue too I suppose......

 

While you wait for Andy a couple of comments.

What the arm does on a blank portion of a disk is no indication of correct anti-skating.

The portion of the stylus that actually touches the record is tiny, tiny, tiny and needs a good microscope  to actually see if it's ok or off-kilter from the main body of the diamond.

The final judgement is by ear (unless you have a distortion meter) so if reducing the bias gets rid of the distortion that's where it should be set. As @Richard Tremain mentions, get the distortion equal in both channels and then adjust the tracking weight to get rid of it. The old set-up records I have use a special track to facilitate this process.

Distortion does cause more wear than normal play so I would advise against playing until you get the adjustments and sound right.

Some cartridges do sound best with more tracking weight than what is commonly recommended. This is not an issue with modern stylus shapes.

 

I hope it's all easily sorted.

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, qik_shift said:

Strangely reducing bias significantly results in the best sound.

 

I suggest you keep reducing bias until you no longer hear any distortion in the L channel.

 

15 hours ago, qik_shift said:

It's possible that there's a cartridge alignment issue too I suppose......

 

That could be the case, certainly.  :(

 

Andy

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's been a long day.  After housework duties, Geoff from HeyNow HiFi and Paul came along for a few hours and we tirelessly listened to records to replicate issues.  While none of Paul's own personal records distorted, I felt the music sounded OK but still had a boxed/closed in feeling to it.

 

Long story short, the issue came down to VTA of all things.  My tonearm assembly is not the greatest one in terms of VTA adjustability (RB330).  In my case the arm pivot point was too high and there was a taper down to the cart.  Paul ran a shim on the cartridge to compensate - at this point it felt like everything came together like magic.  We ran the cart at just over 2.4g and I didn't have that nasty distortion I had before on some records.  

 

We went further and played with VTF through some blindfolded testing.  The difference in sound in 0.01g increments was noticeable by my ear - I was shocked to be able to pick it, but went back to the 'right' same exact number twice.  How's that?!?  We settled on ~2.55g in the end.

 

Bias wasn't too difficult to set frankly once the other stuff was sorted.  We got it largely right quite quickly - and now I'm just fine tuning across different records in the collection to get it just right by ear.

 

Interestingly the stylus doesn't look fully straight - so not sure what that's about.  It slightly tapers off to the left.  The photo I sent was not on a straight angle - and Paul noticed it when the needle dropped on the record too.  So unsure if that's going to be problematic in the future?

 

This cart is fussy in terms of VTA - a commonly agreed point raised across other internet sources I could find. 

 

The music now sounds ******* amazing.  The sound stage has widened by a large margin, the detail is amazing, but a sweetness is there that I love.  Playing some familiar softer tunes actually stirred up emotions (how unmanly of me! lol) in one minute flat.  I'm not going to share more than that on sound detail until the cart has had time to run in - apparently this is one that needs a minimum of 50 hours before it should be judged.  I am seriously keen to see how much better it can get.

 

I'm so much happier now.  @andyr I will play with loading over time and let you know where I land.  Commentary above is based on 800 ohms.

 

Everybody - it's so nice to feel so supported by so many in this forum - in particular Andy who was even willing to come over and help out!  But once again - it's nice to purchase something from a retailer and there is a genuine desire to ensure the customer is happy - by driving over to the other side of town on the weekend. 

 

I will keep you filled in if any more news comes to hand.

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

Wonderful to hear, Chris!  :thumb:

 

Yes, good service from your retailer is always nice to hear.  :thumb:

 

(Although I have to ask ... why didn't the TT fettler get the VTA right, the first time around?  It's not rocket science (although Rega arms don't help, in this regard)!  :| ).

 

I'm impressed you were able to hear the result of 0.01gm increase in VTF.  If you have the ability to hear this ... you should be able to pick the optimum bias for your chosen 2.55gm VTF.  :thumb:

 

Andy

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah agree would have been ideal if we didn't have to re-tune, but in the tuner's defense none of his records had the distortion issue which some of mine did.  I heard them for myself.  They were all 180 gram records and that may have juuuust been enough for the distortion issue to not show.  The records I had which distorted were all 120 gram pressings.

 

I couldn't believe that I could pick the difference myself!  I think a lot of it has to do with the fussiness of the cart.  It's very rewarding - but makes you work for it!  At least it stands out when it's right.

 

Yep a big limitation is the Rega arm.  That limitation will go once I upgrade my TT to another unit - getting that bit more out of the cart though a significantly better TT/arm will be great.  That's another post in the months to come to get some SNA counsel :).  Once the finances recover a little more.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, qik_shift said:

 

Interestingly the stylus doesn't look fully straight - so not sure what that's about.  It slightly tapers off to the left.

 

That could be bcoz there is too much bias (as bias pulls the arm outwards).?

 

14 hours ago, qik_shift said:

 

 @andyr I will play with loading over time and let you know where I land.  Commentary above is based on 800 ohms.

 

 

Yes, I will be most interested to hear how you go, with loading.  :thumb:

 

Andy

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I must say i am amazed that people including retailers apparently, spend ages trying to determine

cartridge set up often wrongly, when it can be done to 90% accuracy in 5 to 10mins with a test record.

A cartridge which is Over Fussy to VTA setting can Sometimes be an indication of less than perfect stylus

orientation although it maybe to early to jump to that conclusion in your case. Unfortunately this is

much to common and difficult to verify except in extreme samples.

I will say even when you do get a cartridge to track the sound will usually be shut in if the T/F is to high

this is because the Generator is no longer in the sweet spot which is center of recommended T/W.

Fiddling with the load impedance if possible may help but the problem is what it is.

Also it is a little odd (to me) you would research an adventurous cartridge brand - but not avail

yourself of a after market (Mitchell possibly) Rega height adjuster kit.

Footnote. 180g records throw out VTA set on 120g or 70g ones. They dont sound better either.

Edited by Richard Tremain
add info
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Richard Tremain said:

180g records throw out VTA set on 120g or 70g ones. They dont sound better either.

 

That's why owning different thickness mats is necessary. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 15/11/2020 at 2:06 PM, Richard Tremain said:

I must say i am amazed that people including retailers apparently, spend ages trying to determine

cartridge set up often wrongly, when it can be done to 90% accuracy in 5 to 10mins with a test record.

A bit like how to set bias, there's often different views on how things should be done.  From a perspective of a person who knows little (me), I thought it was nice to feel like they weren't rushing through the process at least.

 

On 15/11/2020 at 2:06 PM, Richard Tremain said:

A cartridge which is Over Fussy to VTA setting can Sometimes be an indication of less than perfect stylus

orientation although it maybe to early to jump to that conclusion in your case. Unfortunately this is

much to common and difficult to verify except in extreme samples.

It seems after playing with some spacers and fine tuning bias, records of every thickness I've played seem to be playing well now.  This cart is known to be fussy with VTA, but so far it seems to be a set and forget exercise now that the cart has been shimmed.  The sound is amazing and feels quite rewarding now.  I will continue to report to the group if anything on this changes of course.  I'm feeling more confident with bias now too so will slowly experiment with loading over the weekend.

 

On 15/11/2020 at 2:06 PM, Richard Tremain said:

Also it is a little odd (to me) you would research an adventurous cartridge brand - but not avail

yourself of a after market (Mitchell possibly) Rega height adjuster kit.

Footnote.

Perhaps I didn't explain myself very well.  The height adjuster kit was ready to go - but the problem was that we didn't need more tonearm height (which is what these kits do) - we needed to drop the tonearm.  So to compensate a shim was used on the cart to get the right VTA.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Great to see that regardless you are getting pleasing results from a expensive cartridge they really are a mine field to experiment with.  The reason Rega arms have no height adjustment is that R.G. believes it

does not make any difference!  The Tracking angle Null Points for the arm are configured soley for

the the crescendos  in the final groove of classical records another debatable idea, you will find many/most

records actually have no recorded material at the inner null point. That being said Rega Arms out perform

their $ cost.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

It's fascinating isn't it?  How different manufacturers come with views like VTA does't make a difference or Linn believing in not cleaning records - but to regularly clean the stylus instead!!

 

Considering the cart is worth twice the value of the T/T, it's pretty impressive to see how far a P6/RB330 can go.  Don't get me wrong - there's limitations but it sounds pretty impressive.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, qik_shift said:

It's fascinating isn't it?  How different manufacturers come with views like VTA does't make a difference or Linn believing in not cleaning records - but to regularly clean the stylus instead!!

 

Hah - good point, Chris:

  • VTA does't make a difference - Rega.  (But, to be clear - their arm height is to suit Rega carts!)
  • Let the stylus clean the groove - and use green sandpaper to clean the stylus; Linn
  • Bias adjustment is not needed - VPI.

 

1 hour ago, qik_shift said:

 

Considering the cart is worth twice the value of the T/T, it's pretty impressive to see how far a P6/RB330 can go.  Don't get me wrong - there's limitations but it sounds pretty impressive.

 

 

A P6 is not a 'cheap' TT ... but, yes, a more-than-usual-cost cart can definitely improve it.  :)

 

Andy

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/11/2020 at 9:36 PM, qik_shift said:

I recently organised somebody to fit a Kiseki Purple Heart to my Rega P6.  Thought I would test the limits of this turntable/arm and purchase a cart that I could use on my next TT purchase.

 

What I have found is that I get distortion in one of the channels unless the tracking force is set to the maximum allowable (2.6g).  It seems other people seemed to have good sound using the recommended tracking force (around 2.4g)

 

Is this normal/OK?  I've checked and the point where the stylus runs across the record is level.

Glad that you have the Kiseki Purple Heart properly set up now. I had mine installed just over a year ago on an Ekos1. The VTF was set at 2.5g. No mis tracking or anything untoward. Took about 80- 100hr to reach it best. A few months back I had The Karousel/ ARadikal installed and the TT returned with the cartridge set at 1.9g, much lower than the recommendation 2.3-2.6g. Queried that with the installer, who explained that he set the cartridge based on the right rake angle (VTA) and that was the weight that provided that. Thought that was an interesting approach. There were many other changes with the TT and it all sounded good!🤷🏽‍♂️. Last week when my PU7Ti arm was installed., Mark Döhmann set it at 2.3g! Again several other changes were made so difficult to comment on what VTF was best. 
No mis tracking, buzz or other mal functions at any of those weights.

Edited by vivianbl
Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, vivianbl said:

A few months back I had The Karousel/ ARadikal installed and the TT returned with the cartridge set at 1.9g, much lower than the recommendation 2.3-2.6g. Queried that with the installer, who explained that he set the cartridge based on the right rake angle (VTA) and that was the weight that provided that.

 

Sure, the rake angle changes with VTF - but also with VTA!

 

Unfortunately, your experience illustrates that most Linn techs have almost no experience with anything outside of Linn.  :(

 

52 minutes ago, vivianbl said:

 

Last week when my PU7Ti arm was installed., Mark Döhmann set it at 2.3g! Again several other changes were made so difficult to comment on what VTF was best. 
 

 

I'm sure what Mark set it at is correct.  :thumb:

 

Andy

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, andyr said:

Sure, the rake angle changes with VTF - but also with VTA!

 

1 hour ago, vivianbl said:

Queried that with the installer, who explained that he set the cartridge based on the right rake angle (VTA) and that was the weight that provided that. Thought that was an interesting approach.

 

It is one that I have heard of and considered.  Basically I think it relates to the stylus deflection due to to vtf, and getting the mechanics of the generator in the sweet spot.     Assuming correct engineering when designed and made, this combined with the stated correct static compliance should coincide with suitable trackability and best sound from the cartridge.  However, nothing in this world is perfect, and this one seems a long way out.  Could the suspension be faulty (set too soft)?

Edited by aussievintage
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...