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Making DIY Waveguide Speakers from Scratch


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Hi Guys,

 

I am really interested in getting some DIYSG speakers.  I have run into a few hurdles, those being:

  • They are out of stock
  • They are struggling to get parts to fulfil the backlog of demand
  • They don't ship to Australia, apart from using a forwarding company, which from talking with the owner is going to be painful.

 

So I am exploring the idea of building myself some LCRs and surrounds from scratch based on the Dayton Audio H6512 6-1/2" x 12" Waveguide 1" Threaded.

 

Mains, it is a Celestion CDX1-1742 compression driver (currently unavailable), and a custom 12" woofer by Eminence

 

For surrounds, it is a Celestion CDX1-1445 compression driver, and a Celestion TF0818 woofer.

 

This is all to go into a dedicated 8m x 6x 2.6m room.  I am planning to build 3 mains and 8 surrounds.

 

I was hoping to use the collective wisdom of this community to help me and so I wanted to fire off some questions.  Those being:

  • Am I kidding myself?
  • Are there parts available in Melbourne, through a local supplier like loudspeakerkit or wagneronline or belfieldmusic to do something equivalent or better, or am I better off continuing to try and get these kits?
  • If there are better components, what would they be?
  • How difficult would it be to design a crossover to suit these speakers?

 

Thanks in advance!

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17 hours ago, Idzy said:
  • How difficult would it be to design a crossover to suit these speakers?

 

Quite difficult, if you want a good result.

 

My strong advice is to find a kit to build.   If you can't get DIYSG, then a different kit from somewhere else.

 

 

It's a good waveguide choice.

You might want to use the search term "H6512 econowave"... or try this thread

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/34467-flex-your-pcd-mettle?215536-Flex-Your-PCD-Mettle=

"Econowave SR compact", I think uses that waveguide.

 

You should be able to find crossover for a few woofer combinations.

 

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20 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

 

Quite difficult, if you want a good result.

 

My strong advice is to find a kit to build.   If you can't get DIYSG, then a different kit from somewhere else.

 

 

It's a good waveguide choice.

You might want to use the search term "H6512 econowave"... or try this thread

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/34467-flex-your-pcd-mettle?215536-Flex-Your-PCD-Mettle=

"Econowave SR compact", I think uses that waveguide.

 

You should be able to find crossover for a few woofer combinations.

 

Thanks for the info @davewantsmoore.  I stumbled across these and they appear to be the original inspiration for DIYSG.

 

At this stage, I am thinking of something along those lines using the following:

  • Dayton Audio H6512 6-1/2" x 12" Waveguide 1-3/8"- 18 TPI 
  • Eminence B2S-A Aluminum 2/3-Bolt to 1-3/8"-18 TPI Screw-On Horn Adapter 
  • B&C DE250-8 1" Polyimide Horn Driver 8 Ohm 2/3-Bolt 
  • Eminence Beta-12A-II 12" Driver 

 

@gainphile used these components, but with an active crossover and had great results.  With a 7.1.4 setup, I am wondering if I should build 3, 7, or 11.  Maybe start with 3. 

 

Given the differences between the Econowave SR compact in terms of compression driver and woofer, the crossover may need some modification, but I am thinking of using the schematic from the Econowave Deluxe, as it seems to crossover at about 1000-1250hz and that seems to be the sweet spot for these parts too.

 

I am slightly nervous, as I have never done anything like this before, but I do know how to solder, so that is a plus, haha.

Edited by Idzy
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1 hour ago, Idzy said:

At this stage, I am thinking of something along those lines using the following:

Find a kit which is well designed and well reviewed.

 

Buy the drivers specified in the kit.

 

If you pick your own drivers (and/or cabinet layout) then you'll need to design your own crossover..... and as said, this is not trivial.

 

1 hour ago, Idzy said:

@gainphile used these components, but with an active crossover and had great results.

Perhaps he could share with you... .and/or tell you which econowave model he took it from.

 

 

1 hour ago, Idzy said:

Given the differences between the Econowave SR compact in terms of compression driver and woofer, the crossover may need some modification, but I am thinking of using the schematic from the Econowave Deluxe, as it seems to crossover at about 1000-1250hz

The crossover is more complex than this.... as it takes into account the baffle shape, and specific driver responses, as well as the needed high/low pass.

 

1 hour ago, Idzy said:

I am slightly nervous, as I have never done anything like this before, but I do know how to solder, so that is a plus, haha.

Pick a kit, and build it exactly as instructed.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

On 26/10/2020 at 6:33 PM, davewantsmoore said:

Find a kit which is well designed and well reviewed.

 

Buy the drivers specified in the kit.

 

If you pick your own drivers (and/or cabinet layout) then you'll need to design your own crossover..... and as said, this is not trivial.

 

Perhaps he could share with you... .and/or tell you which econowave model he took it from.

 

 

The crossover is more complex than this.... as it takes into account the baffle shape, and specific driver responses, as well as the needed high/low pass.

 

Pick a kit, and build it exactly as instructed.

 

 

Have you built Econowaves before?

If so, how do they sound/perform for a music first system?

 

I have heard JBL 4367's, and S4700's and many pro speakers from D&B, EAW, Meyer Sound etc....

I really like compression mids/HF's. 

 

I'm just just wondering how a diy Econowave would compare?! 

 

I am considering a DSP/DIY build using the following: 

- H615 wave guide 

- DE250 

- Faital 12pr400 

 

Probably using Powersoft Mezzo 604AD or QC 1204 DSP amps per side. 

https://www.powersoft.com/en/products/install-amps/quattrocanali-series/quattrocanali-1204-dspd

https://www.powersoft.com/en/products/install-amps/mezzo-series/mezzo-604-ad

 

15inch stereo Subs built into each speaker. 

Probably an SB acoustics pro driver. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Grizaudio
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11 hours ago, Grizaudio said:

Have you built Econowaves before?

If so, how do they sound/perform for a music first system?

Excellent.   Irrelevant of program material.

 

Like with any build, it's much more than a sum of the parts... so the EQ/XO for each driver is surpremely important.   Go with well designed kit, unless you are confident to design your own (eg. measuring speakers in the problematic 100 to 1000hz range).

 

The directivity with a 12" horn is better compared to a typical 6"/1".   The midbass sensitivity of the speaker in the power range (80 to 400Hz) is good.

 

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56 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

Excellent.   Irrelevant of program material.

 

Like with any build, it's much more than a sum of the parts... so the EQ/XO for each driver is surpremely important.   Go with well designed kit, unless you are confident to design your own (eg. measuring speakers in the problematic 100 to 1000hz range).

 

The directivity with a 12" horn is better compared to a typical 6"/1".   The midbass sensitivity of the speaker in the power range (80 to 400Hz) is good.

 

I'm confident enough to give it a try. ;),

I'm fairly positive I can create some fun chaos, and a decent sounding speaker.

 

Dangerously, I am armed with a measurement microphone and both REW/Smaart software for analysis.  

 

Having worked in pro audio for many years, I have a decent grasp of DSP, amps, crossover implementation, PEQ, phase and timing in the context of system design (not speaker design). But I do have some friends with excellent acoustic knowledge. 

 

Honestly, its just having the time to make the things (Kids and life).

Deciding between a controlled dispersion 2 way or more traditional high efficiency 3 way is also on my mind.

 

Do you know of any excellent 12inch 2 way active designs? Other than Gainphile's. 

 

Edited by Grizaudio
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11 hours ago, Grizaudio said:

more traditional high efficiency 3 way is also on my mind.

This is difficult as it is hard to get good measurement data from a typical XO point in a 3 way (eg. 300Hz).

 

At this point you either understand what I mean and have a solution (eg. you're going outside minimum, and a probaly a long way off the ground... or doing it all in simulation) ...... or.... you don't understand what the problem is, in whch case.... caution.

 

That being said.... it's all fun, and have at it.

 

11 hours ago, Grizaudio said:

Do you know of any excellent 12inch 2 way active designs? Other than Gainphile's. 

There are many just like his.   Sarch the typical forums, for xo parts which match specific woofer/horn/CD combinations.  (eg. the ecconowave mob over at PE or AVS have plenty of examples.

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On 12/11/2020 at 9:24 AM, Grizaudio said:

I'm confident enough to give it a try. ;),

I'm fairly positive I can create some fun chaos, and a decent sounding speaker.

 

Dangerously, I am armed with a measurement microphone and both REW/Smaart software for analysis.  

 

Having worked in pro audio for many years, I have a decent grasp of DSP, amps, crossover implementation, PEQ, phase and timing in the context of system design (not speaker design). But I do have some friends with excellent acoustic knowledge. 

 

Honestly, its just having the time to make the things (Kids and life).

Deciding between a controlled dispersion 2 way or more traditional high efficiency 3 way is also on my mind.

 

Do you know of any excellent 12inch 2 way active designs? Other than Gainphile's. 

 

Griz, I recommend you check out this article@gainphile has heaps of details on how he built and also the DSP details.  I am doing a combination of this and the Econowave Deluxe, as I needed to build a passive crossover.

Edited by Idzy
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