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New project - TG’s Faital 3 way classic 15”


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Planning a trip to Bunnings tomorrow AM for router bits, sandpaper, wood stain, Polyurethane (workshop manager recommended I use water based), and castors.  
 

need to order some vinyl wrap. 
 

What’s in Melbourne?

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Woohoo!!   for reference, that’s a 60 inch TV.  It’s a bit difficult to get a perspective on that photo.  The entertainment unit is 2m wide.  

Howdy folks, ordered and paid yesterday for the tweeters, crossover components and various bits and pieces from Jantzen Audio, I went for the more basic kit with fabric tweeters and the lower (but sti

Well, the wood screws provided appear to be a slightly narrower head diameter than the holes on the 15" woofer.  Enough to have a listen, but a couple have just screwed straight through flush on the w

Freedom!

 

No - woops, I meant Sydney. Home of great workshops available to the public, it seems.

 

Don't think our Mens' Shed down here can quite crack what you're getting. Especially that cool ceiling storage!

 

Agree with the water-based.

 

You'll need that vinyl thickness before you can cut the baffles, but that's a few days away? (Maybe hours, at your rate).

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15 minutes ago, Janus77 said:

Planning a trip to Bunnings tomorrow AM for router bits, sandpaper, wood stain, Polyurethane (workshop manager recommended I use water based), and castors.  
 

need to order some vinyl wrap. 
 

What’s in Melbourne?

Why are you staining and lacquering if you’re going to vinyl wrap? You could save some time. 

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The stain is for the front baffles which are not being vinyled, and the lacquer is to prepare the wood surface for the vinyl, the instructions I’ve read all say it won’t stick to wood unless it’s painted as the vinyl doesn’t stick to porous surfaces.  

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Front and rear baffle rebates cut.  Used the router table, purchased a set of router bits this morning.  
 

Might cut front and rear baffles now, and see if I can get to brace rebates.

 

I had cut the top and bottom panels 10mm too wide by mistake, fixed them up.  
 

 

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About to do a trial run of the wood stain and polyurethane finish.  
 

ps. I went for oil based as they didn’t have any water based stain in the colour I wanted.  

 

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Hmm, not a great result.  I saw some videos on YouTube where they used a pre treater like a solvent mix or something to stop it looking splotchy.  Will do some more research.  
 

Obligatory toes shot..
 

 

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Do I paint on all coats of poly without sanding and then sand it to a glossy finish, or should I be sanding in between coats?

 

Think I need to get some mineral spirits to clean it after sanding before I dye the wood.  
 

also what grit do people use.  I have 220 and it seems too rough, night pick up some 400, or should I go even finer?   Bunnings were out of stock of the 400 grit orbital pads unfortunately.  

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45 minutes ago, Janus77 said:

Do I paint on all coats of poly without sanding and then sand it to a glossy finish, or should I be sanding in between coats?

 

Think I need to get some mineral spirits to clean it after sanding before I dye the wood.  
 

also what grit do people use.  I have 220 and it seems too rough, night pick up some 400, or should I go even finer?   Bunnings were out of stock of the 400 grit orbital pads unfortunately.  

I would use a very fine steel wool after the first coat of lacquer and hopefully it should be nice and smooth after that. Just make sure to clean off all the dust.

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3 hours ago, PKay said:

I would use a very fine steel wool after the first coat of lacquer and hopefully it should be nice and smooth after that. Just make sure to clean off all the dust.

Picked some up at the shops, will run it over the poly and then add another coat and see how it goes.  I guess I need at least 4-5 coats before I can polish it to a gloss finish?

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14 hours ago, Peter the Greek said:

 

That's a good looking bench. Custom made or can you buy them?

 

 


sorry no idea where they got it from.  

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Ordered black vinyl for side, top and bottom.  Eta 7th December.  
Will spray the rear baffles black. 
Also I found a video on YouTube that shows how to get a clean corner fold with the vinyl, flush with no overlap.  
 

last items to buy are Castors.  
 

this is all shaping up nicely.   
 

Will a liberal application of PVA glue make a good seal between the panels or do I need to consider using some liquid nails or some kind of silicone along inside of seams to ensure there’s no additional leakage?
 

 

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46 minutes ago, Janus77 said:

Ordered black vinyl for side, top and bottom.  Eta 7th December.  
Will spray the rear baffles black. 
Also I found a video on YouTube that shows how to get a clean corner fold with the vinyl, flush with no overlap.  
 

last items to buy are Castors.  
 

this is all shaping up nicely.   
 

Will a liberal application of PVA glue make a good seal between the panels or do I need to consider using some liquid nails or some kind of silicone along inside of seams to ensure there’s no additional leakage?
 

 

I added another PVA (Titebond 3) on the seams for good measure. Can’t hurt can it!

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3rd coat of poly with steel wool and 400 grit in between.  Will put a 4th coat on then try to polish it with a 1200 grit to see how it turns out.  
 

 

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16 hours ago, oohms said:

To prevent blotchyness, try using a timber sealer first. I have yet to try this, but it is often recommended before staining

 

I've read that too, and the first coat of dye was definitely blotchy.  The second coat of dye though gave a nice colouring that highlights the grain of the wood which is what i wanted so i'm pretty satisfied with it.  Have put 4 coats of poly on the test piece, i'll try and polish it up tonight using 400 and 1200 grit, see how it turns out.  It really POPS seeing it in person, I may leave 3-5cm at the bottom of the front baffles where i cut the grills short, so there's a hint of red at the bottom even when the grills are on.  

 

My aunt lives in our apartment building, she's moved to SA for 4 months, i'm going to use her lounge room to dye and poly the baffles (once i've cut the driver holes and speaker grill holes.  Should allow me to keep them clean and relatively dust free while curing.

 

3 more Thursday sessions, and 1 full Friday to get through it.  This Thursday the plan is to get all the internal bracing cut to size, if i have time i'd like to cut rebates for bracings too.  Will just cut 18mm wide rebates so the entire bracing sits 3mm or so into the 24mm top and side panels.

After that I need to start cutting holes in the bracings.  I imagine it will be a pretty time consuming process, see how i go.  Should i use a drill bit to cut the circles, or a router and jig.  I'm hoping they have a circular drill bit i can use, seems like the fastest/easiest method to me.

Once that's done, time to glue!

 

I'm concerned with the amount of time i have to complete the project, it's taking me a while to do everything as it's my first build.  If i can get the boxes glued together (apart from front baffles), then i can finish up the rest in my aunt's apartment (ie. vinyl, internals, front baffle glue, mesh attachment to front grill frames).

I can probaby also take another day of leave if it gets to it, and try to blast through a heap in a 6hr session.  I expect the gluing will require multiple sessions as i can't glue all the panels at once.  Maybe i shoot over in my lunch break a few times from work if needed.
 

It's going to be a magic moment when i finally get to listen to them.  I'm tempted to let them run at my aunt's place for a couple of days (with 1 speaker wired reverse) to break them in before i have my first listen.  Although i doubt i'll have the patience for this, and it might be fun anyway to hear them open up over time.

 

 

 

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Learning something every day at the moment.  Seeing actual crossover performance gave me a better understanding about what’s going on, and the relationship between the different driver crossovers.  
 

will get readings on all three when I have time and map it out for fun.  

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56 minutes ago, Janus77 said:

Learning something every day at the moment.  Seeing actual crossover performance gave me a better understanding about what’s going on, and the relationship between the different driver crossovers.  
 

will get readings on all three when I have time and map it out for fun.  

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What driver is that? It’s not for the 3WC-15’s ... or at least I hope not :)

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Some interesting points in this Faital build update from Troels' site

 

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Faital-3WC_Mike.htm

 

I would expect some undesirable reflections from the inner surfaces of his grilles - would use a 45 degree router bit, before applying cloth.

 

The rebated slots for bracing looks good to me.

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Thanks Brian, good to hear from you :)

I had a look at Mountain River on google maps, i don't think i'd give it up for the city if i were you, even for the great workshops.. 

 

Yep i read that review, interesting he mentioned he hopes the bass becomes a little deeper, even with the larger cabs.  I guess it's all relative, not knowing what speakers he had previously.

 

I'd already emailed Troels about the grills and he said to router a 45 angle on the inside edge of the grill frames too.  I'm planning to use offcuts of the 18mm birch for the frames, i want the grill plugs to be located on the front baffle (not on the leading edges of the sides, top and bottom panels - which will be vinyl).  I guess this means I need to use something like 30-40mm wide pieces of ply so that the interior edge of the grill frame is far enough in to support the plugs.  The benefit of a slightly wider ply is extra rigidity which it may need given they'll be 90cm high.

 

Troels also confirmed ok to rebate for the entire width of the horizontal bracings, and he did NOT rebate for the vertical large (B) bracing.  Makes sense for the vertical brace as it's supported by the horizontal braces, i'll follow his lead on this.

 

I'm worried i will run out of time, which is fueling my motivation to plan for to make the most of each workshop session.  I have 3 more Thursday sessions, and a Friday off (when i can get 6hrs in), which is a total of 15hrs.  This Thursday i must get the internal bracings cut to size at a minimum.  If i manage this, i will commence rebating on the front and rear baffles for the braces.  If somehow this is all finished, i'll start cutting holes in the braces.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about the gluing order, which you mentioned earlier.  The other factor is the workshop does not have a lot of storage for boxes, there's ample room for straight sheets but these are in a fairly narrow area.  i'll have to ask if they have somewhere upstairs i can glue.  I need to use their clamps so the gluing has to happen at the workshop.  I still don't know how i glue and clamp the boxes while keeping the corners exact and the panels at right angles.  Probably need to do a bit of research on clamping techniques to give me a better idea of how to approach this part of the build.

 

Fun fun.

 

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Sanded with 2000 grit and buffed.  Think I’ll need an orbital sander to get a really clean finish. Few spots looking nice. 
 

 

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7 hours in the workshop tomorrow.  All pieces cut to size and holes in bracing cut is the plan.  I don’t think I’ll bother taking glue with me, that would be too optimistic.  

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On 01/12/2020 at 11:15 AM, Janus77 said:

Troels also confirmed ok to rebate for the entire width of the horizontal bracings, and he did NOT rebate for the vertical large (B) bracing.  Makes sense for the vertical brace as it's supported by the horizontal braces, i'll follow his lead on this.

 

You've no doubt worked it all out now, so apologies for being off the radar until now.

 

I had another look at the way Troels sequenced his glue-up, and this time, noticed he had little fillets all around the sides and top, behind (under) Brace B, to sit it in place, and this would fill any gaps from having to cut it a bit undersize. This is what I had pictured in my sleepless nights over this - that you would (instead of those fillets) rebate a groove in top, bottom, and sides, and glue Brace B and those 4 panels all in one go. Brace B would hold all the 45 degree angles, but you'd still need a very flat bench (with butcher's paper to stop you gluing the box to the bench) to get them right - this would have to be the most tricky part of the build. (Normal PVA wouldn't stay wet for that long).

 

Then all the little shelf braces have to be slotted in, and I thought you would rebate grooves in the side panels to keep them square. But you're rebating the front and rear panels? Not sure I understand how that would help in positioning for gluing.

 

I would probably rebate the side panels only, and maybe even cut each Brace A and C in half, place the ends, and swing the middles together, so there can be no gaps. But is that possible with the mid box (top shelf)? Dunno.

 

Still worried about cutting holes in such tiny braces... A router jig is usually 300-400 mm long, needing a bit of elbow room, so clamping will be hard. Maybe a couple of countersunk screws holding each one down to your scrap piece on the bench? Guessing you won't be using a 190 mm hole saw! Even a 125 needs serious clamping from 2 or 3 points.

 

If you leave the front and rear panels to glue on last, you can mark their exact shape directly from inside the box - as it actually turns out - this would be a fine thing.

 

Just a few spanners for you. Again, I reckon you've probably nailed it by now (as opposed to screwed it, haha).

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Brian you’re correct, I’ll be rebating the braces on the side panels, not the front and rear.  
 

cutting the holes in the bracings with the router will be good practice for when I get to cutting holes for the drivers.  
 

I’ll do a few test glue joints to make sure I’m confident clamping it all up straight.  
 

Troels wrote that he clamps the sides and bracings first then the front and rear last.  The vertical B bracing keeps it all straight.  “Panels need to be cut precisely”.

- so your idea is bang on. 
 

I’ve packed glue for tomorrow just in case, it’s probably overly optimistic though.

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I know we chatted about this earlier, and the potential for children’s toys to be put in the ports.  However I still like the idea of some red on the front with the grills on..


from my calcs there’s 60mm vertical distance between the bottom of the bass driver and the tip of the ports.  

 

 

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26 minutes ago, crtexcnndrm99 said:

Nice 👍 Similar to the Tannoy (Berkeley’s?) with the two part grille on the front. Smaller lower portion for the two ports.

My Paradigm 9se have a 2 part grill, however with these speakers I'm leaning towards a single grill that only extends down to just below the bass driver and leaving the baffle below this uncovered.

 

Ash, those Cornetta are huge, how are you enjoying them after some more time listening?

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2 hours ago, Janus77 said:

My Paradigm 9se have a 2 part grill, however with these speakers I'm leaning towards a single grill that only extends down to just below the bass driver and leaving the baffle below this uncovered.

 

Ash, those Cornetta are huge, how are you enjoying them after some more time listening?

Ah I understand now. Difficult choice, the grille - I still haven’t added one because of the difficulty / expense of finding some Tannoy-esque grille material. 
 

Huge they are mate! Absolutely awesome for the most part, definitely think large driver was a good move. Just playing with placement still (currently testing out full corner placement in the style of Klipschorns - corner loading is a fun thing). 
 

Main dilemma with large speakers - and you’ll have a similar problem soon ;) - is that it doesn’t leave any room for when you want to build more! 

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Glad I made a jig, you have to be really smooth to get a good circle.  I’ll need a lot more practice.  
snapped a router bit though, was going the wrong direction.   
 

It’s going to be a mad rush at the end to get these finished.  Lots of circles to cut, have to rebate the side panels for the braces too.  

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