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New project - TG’s Faital 3 way classic 15”


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Woohoo!!   for reference, that’s a 60 inch TV.  It’s a bit difficult to get a perspective on that photo.  The entertainment unit is 2m wide.  

Howdy folks, ordered and paid yesterday for the tweeters, crossover components and various bits and pieces from Jantzen Audio, I went for the more basic kit with fabric tweeters and the lower (but sti

Well, the wood screws provided appear to be a slightly narrower head diameter than the holes on the 15" woofer.  Enough to have a listen, but a couple have just screwed straight through flush on the w

My sympathies - that sounds grim!

 

No, I think your idea of "Honey, can we just check the vasectomy worked again?" sounds much more satisfying, especially if you can do it while shopping.

 

Now, back to that sides/baffle junction...

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Just had the opportunity to listen to a new set of Duntech Princess, holy cow!   The bass went to a level where you could feel your eardrums vibrating.  I think they go clean down to 27hz or something like that.  I believe it, crikey. Pretty amazing performance from dual 8” bass drivers.  Not only that but the sound is just so clean and fast, they can go from painfully loud to dead silence in an instant.  I guess there’s something in a sealed cab design and big power.. I think they’re 135kg each.  
 

That was fun!

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Tweeter and bass crossovers completed, mid crossovers should be done tonight.  
 

fun fun.  
 

Woodworking instructor said he’s got the table saw setup so it won’t tear, so I decided not to bother doing a varnish before cutting. 

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Finished the crossovers but for 1 part.  The plastic wrapped inductor, i couldn't get the solder to flow.  Underneath the wax covering was a lacquer which i need to sand off to allow for the metal to solder together.

I have the crossovers at work today, will run them on the oscilloscope to check performance.

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8 minutes ago, Sub Sonic said:

Sandpaper works ok, or a sharp knife blade can also be used to scrape off the laquer.

 

Thanks!  I spent quite a bit of time trying to get the solder to flow so it's pretty burnt on now.  I need an amp to run the crossovers so we can test them with the oscilloscope at work, so i'll bring some sandpaper in tomorrow to clean them up, and use the solderer at work to finish the wiring up.  Will leave the crossovers in a box under my desk while i get them finished at the office and figure out how to get an amp to test them - i'd rather not have to bring in a full sized amplifier if i can avoid it.  Also need to work out what length wires i need to run from each crossover to drivers and binding posts, then connect these wires.  I purchased some gold plated female spade plugs from Jaycar on the weekend to allow me to wire up the speaker terminals without soldering.

 

 

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An easy way to test the crossovers would be to borrow or buy an impedance tester, such as the Dayton DATS - super easy, plus it has many other uses as well. Once it is set up with crossover connected to the driver(s), just do a test sweep.

 

Cheers,

 

SS

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Received the wood at the workshop.  The weight estimate they gave me was weigh off.  The 24mm boards are over 100kg each for sure.  These things are going to weigh 90kg each I reckon.  
 

Aris have you weighed yours?

 

castors for sure!

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27 minutes ago, Janus77 said:

 

Aris have you weighed yours?

 

castors for sure!


I have not weighed them but I can lift one (just). I’d estimate around 60-65kg with drivers. 
 

I think on three panels (2440x1200) there will about 30% waste?

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I bought some castors but decided to go with feet (m12) in the end. I feel that either would be great!

Edited by aris
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22 hours ago, Janus77 said:

I can't see those attachments for some reason? In my cutouts I added 2mm rebates along the sides and top panels for the bracing.

 

I kept the outer dimensions as per Troels, even when using 24mm ply. Shrug, I could always remake the cabinets if I feel that I can hear a difference, but my gut says that it doesn't make a huge difference.

 

Happy to provide my cutout plans if you want (don't want to hijack your thread too much!).

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Hi Aris, thanks however i've adjusted my cabinets for the extra panel thickness so the plans wouldn't translate.  I was planning to add an additional 6mm width on each horizontal bracing to allow for 3mm teeth to slot into the side panels.

So you also made a slot hole in the top and bottom panels for the large "B" bracing to slide into?  From Troels design photos i couldn't really tell if he did this, i figured the small bracing supports were all he used.

 

edit: i may adjust the internal B (vertical brace) height to allow for teeth top and bottom to slot in.

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External panels (24mm):

image.png.390b6e0718bd7de8151cc5a67cc49b13.png

image.png.7fdf8a5f934c2b4b21b4d6c38b87f58d.png

 

Internal bracing (18mm):

image.png.5e4b1ab02840940a981469346a4a988e.png

I'll use some of the 18mm to make the grill frames.  Troels suggested to mitre a 45 degree angle on the inward facing edge, i'll also probably round the outer edge with a router.  Max driver excursion on the 15" driver is 15.4mm before damage occurs, and the 8" is similar i guess (similar X max to the 15pr400's), so an 18mm height off the front baffle for the speaker cloth will be fine.  I do wonder though if i need an additional cross support on the grill frames.  I guess if not, i just need to ensure i stretch the cloth enough that it doesn't sag at all.

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2 hours ago, Janus77 said:

I think i'll go with these, good on carpet apparently, 9cm height.

 

 

You may want two per speaker that lock, mind you I doubt they will move easily!

 

These are what I ordered, you may find them in black. 

 

https://www.factoryfast.com.au/products/8-x-2-polyurethane-castor-wheels-swivel-and-4-with-brake

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Fascinating thread. Love the fact that the OP has dived into the deep end as a first try. Good luck mate. Looking forward to seeing the progress and the finished product. They will be awesome! 

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16 minutes ago, unclemack said:

Fascinating thread. Love the fact that the OP has dived into the deep end as a first try. Good luck mate. Looking forward to seeing the progress and the finished product. They will be awesome! 


I have a history of my eyes being too big for my stomach, let’s see how I go. 

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Made some bridging connects for the bass and mid/tweeter binding posts yesterday.  A colleague advised they loop them, which is how i'll wire them up, so there's some spare in case they need adjusting (which is why they're so long).

0-02-07-a7c05ec95b8b40817091570fbf4acea692e54c53d86f43c03a6c6b9df5a03f62_d885cd5f.thumb.jpg.e1c81e983cc2038c3295fa0778f5cbb6.jpg

 

I realise i could have done it internally or just run a wire between, however I figured I've spent so much to this point I may as well make some fancy connectors for the back too! :)

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1 hour ago, Janus77 said:

Made some bridging connects for the bass and mid/tweeter binding posts yesterday.  A colleague advised they loop them, which is how i'll wire them up, so there's some spare in case they need adjusting (which is why they're so long).

0-02-07-a7c05ec95b8b40817091570fbf4acea692e54c53d86f43c03a6c6b9df5a03f62_d885cd5f.thumb.jpg.e1c81e983cc2038c3295fa0778f5cbb6.jpg

 

I realise i could have done it internally or just run a wire between, however I figured I've spent so much to this point I may as well make some fancy connectors for the back too! :)

That’s very cool. You need the loop as if you use wire then the banana plugs don’t seem to go all the way in on the binding posts. 
 

I’m gonna follow your example!

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Cost about $15 in parts, 4 packets of PT4560 gold crimp 6mm eye terminals  ($2.95 each) and some speaker cable from Jaycar.  pleased with the result, unfortunately my last use of the solderer seems to have blown it so i can't solder them up.  The physical crimp is pretty strong though.  I'll get them soldered at the workshop.

 

cable.thumb.jpg.763023a56c47d22ae186ad66ed32a7e2.jpg

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Hi Hugh,

I'm presuming these are for the inside of the boxes?

My Jantzen binding-posts (which I don't use) have 6 mm threaded shafts on the inside, but would need a 10 mm eye on the outside.

Or a fork with at least 8.5 mm inner width.

Maybe yours are different?

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4 minutes ago, BioBrian said:

Hi Hugh,

I'm presuming these are for the inside of the boxes?

My Jantzen binding-posts (which I don't use) have 6 mm threaded shafts on the inside, but would need a 10 mm eye on the outside.

Or a fork with at least 8.5 mm inner width.

Maybe yours are different?

 

Ouch. :) will have to check.  I built them based on the product description of the posts being M6.

 

Hmm, looks like they're wider on the outside.

Binding%20post%20satin%20nickel-750x750.jpg

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Yep, they look the same.

 

The other thought was whether you could use eyes at all, but, unlike on my amp, these caps do fully screw off.

 

The other, other thought - I've seen commercial versions of these which have bananas on one end, and forks on the other. The bananas get the full depth, but the other end has to share the other post with the speaker wire. I think your idea of using eyes all round is better.

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There's plenty of meat on the eyelets, they're 12mm external.  I should be able to drill them out to fit, or turn them into banana plugs if that doesn't work.

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That's confidence! You'd only have 1 mm at the edges - I would expect 'eye problems', even if using very clever clamping. And the raised part would probably prevent screwing down properly.

 

Not quite as bling-ful but still from Jaycar are the uninsulated eyes, part PT4940 (silver*-clad copper?), in my 2019 catalogue. I'd squash the crimp part, and solder the wire into the external groove that leaves, then cover with our universal saviour, heat-shrink. But you might find something nicer.

 

* More likely to be tin, or zinc-clad.

 

Edited by BioBrian
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My biggest concern with this build is the glue-up sequence. I just can't picture a best-scenario. Troels doesn't make it very clear. His write-up of the previous one, the 12" Faital 3WC, tells us a bit more of the problem, but it's as if he does the whole box in one go - surely not? I don't think PVA would stay workable that long, and it's just too much to manage all at once, especially with the front and rear panels having to be flush, have all the 45 degree parts match up, and only having sight to one lot (either front or back).

 

Using 24-hour epoxy would make this a lot easier, staying workable for an hour or so, and filling gaps really well too. (What gaps, we ask, haha).

 

Have you decided upon the front baffle coating, and/or how to meet your side veneer material with the baffle? It would be normal to round off these corners, but I'm not sure what your plan is here. IF you are not going to make a feature of the edge ply and 45 deg corners etc, as Troels has done, it might be a lot easier to just forget all the front rebates, make the baffle 2 mm oversize all round, and just glue it on last. One pass around all 4 edges with an "edge-trim" router bit would take little time, skill, or stress, and you'd be covering the joints on the sides with your veneer anyway. Leaving your front as one material for even staining, or whatever.

 

I don't want to interfere with your build, but I can't see that you've 'thunk' this one out, and if I don't say it today, it'll be too late! So please accept the above as just an idea.

 

The  way Troels does his saw-cut and matching lip that both locates and helps get a larger glue area is quite fiddly - I do it a simpler way. For 18 mm bracing, I rout a 2 or 3 mm deep groove with an 18 mm bit, and the brace just slots in, any gaps filled by the epoxy; this also gives a tiny bit of wriggle room in the gluing phase. But this won't work if you want to fit the bracing (eg the B brace) in after the sides are done - Troels seems to slide things in where there's no space, and I reckon I'd be leaving most of the glue behind if I tried it. I know in some of his builds, he pre-glues internal structures, like mid-boxes and some bracing. But it's difficult not to get extra glue on other panels, so you can't get them apart without damage, if that makes sense.

 

In any case, make sure you have at least sixteen times as many clamps as you think you need 🙂.

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Thanks Brian, this part does still need some working out.  I came up with the plan in attachment below.  However i think maybe gluing the front horizontal braces into just 1 of the side panels first, also gluing the top and bottom panel, with a dry fit of the opposing side panel and front and rear baffles when clamping might be the plan.  Once these are dry, i glue in the vertical B brace, again using the opposite side panel, front and rear baffles for support when gluing, then finally the rear horizontal braces.  End up with 1 side, top bottom and internal braces attached, knowing the opposite side and front and rear baffles will fit.  Need to make sure i don't accidentally glue any panels that aren't meant to be (chopsticks maybe inside the step down so they can't sit flush.

 

Below needs to be amended.  i appreciate you bringing it up though, i did have it on my list to work through.  i figure i'm a few weeks off needing to glue anything.

 

image.png.529d387efb93b88b0ca3300faffc4106.png

 

Regarding the front and rear baffle.  Rear i plan to spray matte black.  Front i want to use a red dye and polyurethane finish.  The sides, top and bottom in a black wood vinyl, i plan to wrap around so that it goes half way down the step down at the front flush where the front baffle slots into if that makes sense?

 

Heading to the first workshop class in 15 minutes, hopefully they have lots of clamps :) excited!!

Edited by Janus77
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Actually on rethink, maybe only glue the top or bottom panel initially, that way i'm not sliding the B vertical brace in and rubbing all the glue off in the process.

 

1. Front horizontal braces, top and side panel glued together, using bottom panel, opposite side panel, and front and rear baffles when clamping to ensure parts are glued straight for everything to fit together.

2. Vertical brace and rear horizontal braces glued in, again using same panels without glue for support till dry.

3. Apply felt, drill holes for speaker wire, install wire, and seal holes.

4. Glue rear baffle after installing binding posts and felt.  I think i can install the crossovers after the rear baffle is glued in - the holes in B brace should be large enough.

 

 

That will have me with a semi finished box with no front baffle. 

 

5. Polish up the front baffle, and apply vinyl to sides, top and bottom before gluing in front baffle.

 

Sound ok?  Will it be difficult to use the panels not being glued as supports when clamping together?  bit of a jigsaw puzzle.   I'll keep thinking it through until i have a clear game plan.

Hopefully @aris chimes in on this as he's already built them. :)

 

Itching to get to the workshop!

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I found that I glued the main brace to a side (to create a T) then glued the remaining side (to create a H). You can use the front and back baffle to keep square.

 

Then I glued the remaining bracing, bit by bit. Small clamps were useful here.

 

The hardest was the top and bottom, which had to fit exactly, involve the 45deg mitre etc. Given I had already put in the bracing (minus front/back baffle) I could use small clamps for the top/bottom. See attached photos!

 

Aris

 

IMG_1852.jpeg

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IMG_1861.jpeg

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IMG_1866.jpeg

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2 minutes ago, aris said:

I found that I glued the main brace to a side (to create a T) then glued the remaining side (to create a H). You can use the front and back baffle to keep square.

 

Then I glued the remaining bracing, bit by bit. Small clamps were useful here.

 

The hardest was the top and bottom, which had to fit exactly, involve the 45deg mitre etc. Given I had already put in the bracing (minus front/back baffle) I could use small clamps for the top/bottom. See attached photos!

 

Aris

 

IMG_1852.jpeg

IMG_1859.jpeg

IMG_1861.jpeg

IMG_1865.jpeg

IMG_1866.jpeg

That looks like a great effort. Well done. 

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My first attempt to “do it all at once” ended with me scraping glue before it had set and redoing. 
 

Slowly slowly works better sometimes. 
 

Aris

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