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New project - TG’s Faital 3 way classic 15”


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Woohoo!!   for reference, that’s a 60 inch TV.  It’s a bit difficult to get a perspective on that photo.  The entertainment unit is 2m wide.  

Howdy folks, ordered and paid yesterday for the tweeters, crossover components and various bits and pieces from Jantzen Audio, I went for the more basic kit with fabric tweeters and the lower (but sti

Well, the wood screws provided appear to be a slightly narrower head diameter than the holes on the 15" woofer.  Enough to have a listen, but a couple have just screwed straight through flush on the w

2 minutes ago, BioBrian said:

Only 200 m, but that was the easy bit!

 

Funny you should ask, 'coz that turned up a pic of the felt-padded trolley thing I mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

Had to build a ramp up the house steps to get it in, but 80 kg moved quite easily on the right slope.

 

1710021207_DTonsideathousewithtrolley.jpg.9d839383bcffeaf83df094df3ad89de6.jpg

Sack Trolleys are perfect for moving speakers around. My last 2 pairs are both well over 50 Kg and have managed to move them around by myself with a trolley and Van.

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2 minutes ago, Janus77 said:

time frame from commencement to completion? 

 

 212 hours, over 2 1/2 months, plus odd days later on, fitting fly-wire bottoms to keep out any mud-wasps and rodents, upgrade XO, make slotted rear covers, etc.

 

So, total 236 hours, according to my notes.

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I sort of have an agreement with myself, that I'll improve the workshop some more, before taking on the next project. It's saved a lot of time and stress over the period, eg now I have a very solid table for entertaining at GTGs (as well as flat, for laminating etc haha). So each speaker build gets easier, more efficient, in theory. I just like making life difficult (eg 2 x 350 litre subs for very little obvious gain).

 

But nothing can compare with the mega-uber-bench you had! And a table saw and table router would solve a lot of problems.

 

In allowing myself a few cool tools, I think I'm making up for a bit of tough love from my father. If we wanted a billy-cart, there was a pile of offcuts over there, a hammer, panel saw, tin of salvaged nails to straighten (not kidding - try telling kids to do that today), and if you get far enough, we'll see about some old ball-bearings, or attack the old pram for wheels. Not that different from the first speakers I built, several years later.

 

1 hour ago, Janus77 said:

They're very nice workmanship.

 

Thank you - it's been a slow progression, as above. There's a bit of satisfaction in the difference.

 

So I can certainly appreciate the extraordinary achievement you've made, in such a short time.

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17 hours ago, BioBrian said:

If we wanted a billy-cart, there was a pile of offcuts over there, a hammer, panel saw, tin of salvaged nails to straighten (not kidding - try telling kids to do that today)

No... that's exactly what I'm telling my kids.   😃👍

 

In a way which doesn't give them too much of a scarcity complex, of course.....  but "figuring things out", and "solving problems" are good life skills (understatement) .... and few cuts from rusty nails won't hurt one bit.

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On 17/02/2021 at 2:46 PM, BioBrian said:

 

Did I hear 'good front end loader'?

 

659713712_3245Delivery1200x900.jpg.41f0666cae00cac1d96461d1816dfaa3.jpg

 

I wish we could get my DTQWT-12s into the GTG. Might be a long drive though.

Hey Brian,

Your property is looking rather lush for this time of year.

The woodwork looks even better against the green backdrop of mother nature.

Looking to get a small tractor of my own. Any suggestions? (2 acres of regular slashing and minor works required)

 

Love your work Janus77. Congrats!  Hope you get many years of enjoyment from them.

 

 

PS: I still maintain that the Troels' DTQWT's were designed upside down.

Edited by Auracle
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On 21/02/2021 at 10:34 PM, Auracle said:

Your property is looking rather lush for this time of year.

The woodwork looks even better against the green backdrop of mother nature.

 

Hi Sam, the pic is actually from when I'd just finished the DTQWT-12s in Feb 2013, but yes, nice and lush as usual down here, especially the blackberries. The tree ferns could be hundreds of years old; they look the same at any time.

 

Better not use Hugh's space for other matters though - will PM.

 

On 21/02/2021 at 10:34 PM, Auracle said:

PS: I still maintain that the Troels' DTQWT's were designed upside down.

 

A hazard of him living on the wrong side of the planet? Mine could be inverted, as opposed to the smaller version; the difference I see would be that the horn, opening upwards, would affect bass presentation to the room - less room gain? - is this what you had in mind?

 

In any case, I wouldn't want non-auds to think they were just an 'art' rubbish bin or spittoon...

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3 hours ago, BioBrian said:

A hazard of him living on the wrong side of the planet? Mine could be inverted, as opposed to the smaller version; the difference I see would be that the horn, opening upwards, would affect bass presentation to the room - less room gain? - is this what you had in mind?

 

The floor is a significant part of the horns mouth area (it's one "wall" of the mouth/exit).   Without it the mouth area would ne much much much larger.

 

3 hours ago, BioBrian said:

or spittoon...

LOL

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3 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

The floor is a significant part of the horns mouth area (it's one "wall" of the mouth/exit).   Without it the mouth area would ne much much much larger.

 

I agree, and this has had surprisingly little discussion, to my knowledge. Since joking about putting them up as surround speakers once, I've often wondered about how to measure them in free air - and the tractor's the only way I can think of, but I'm really not up to that right now, however appealing the concept is.

 

I feel this thread should not be swamped with miscellaneous adventures unrelated to Hugh's project, or at least the Faital 3WC-15 design in particular.

 

See @Sierra's "Another Troels Gravesen's DTQWT Project Build" thread as an example: from memory, I'm guilty as the initial perpetrator of its becoming a general repository for anything DTQWT-related, despite his extraordinary generosity and encouragement.

 

I'd like to see more reporting of Hugh's comparisons and tweaks, as they unfold, all in good time - nails getting short here, Hugh...

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On 18/02/2021 at 10:17 AM, davewantsmoore said:
On 17/02/2021 at 4:26 PM, BioBrian said:

If we wanted a billy-cart, there was a pile of offcuts over there, a hammer, panel saw, tin of salvaged nails to straighten (not kidding - try telling kids to do that today)

No... that's exactly what I'm telling my kids.   😃👍

 

In a way which doesn't give them too much of a scarcity complex, of course.....  but "figuring things out", and "solving problems" are good life skills (understatement) .... and few cuts from rusty nails won't hurt one bit.

 

That's heartening to hear, it's just that these days I'd be worried about the stream of counsellors and lawyers (or worse) knocking on the door claiming abuse, and whatever other trendy accusations they can conjure up. Some aspects of the present are pretty dismal!

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12 minutes ago, BioBrian said:

Some aspects of the present are pretty dismal!

Myself, and I think many other members here, consider ourselves fortunate to be the last humans ( in the West, at least ), who grew up without computers.

Edited by BuzzzFuzzz
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Haha, all good please continue the chat.
 

I’m in love with the speakers, with a good track they fill the room with music more than I could have hoped.   
 

am waiting on some rca—>xlr adapters to arrive later this week hopefully so I can try out my friend’s 1800w power amp.  Should be fun.  
 

I think the speakers are still breaking in, every time I sit down to listen I’m astonished.  More and more I’m hunting for live recordings, seems there’s nothing better than a really good live recording for me, lots of nuances in the crowd participation etc.  

And the bass, my gosh!   It’s when the guitarist taps his hand on the acoustic guitar, or a breath in the microphone, doesn’t even have to be music, the woofers do something...

 

will report back when I’ve tried this class d power amp.  Hopefully can get downstairs to another guy’s place and try on his MF system with TT at some point too.  

 

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Make sure (I’m sure you know this apologies for preaching to the choir) to match the gain of top and bottom end power amps.

 

Staightforward but must be done. 

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9 minutes ago, Janus77 said:

 

 

11 minutes ago, Janus77 said:

More and more I’m hunting for live recordings, seems there’s nothing better than a really good live recording for me, lots of nuances in the crowd participation etc.  

 

If you like a little Jazz, check out the Live at the Pawnshop series.

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22 minutes ago, aris said:

Make sure (I’m sure you know this apologies for preaching to the choir) to match the gain of top and bottom end power amps.

 

Staightforward but must be done. 


Thanks Aris.   I’m only using 1 power amp for all drivers though so shouldn’t be any need to worry about gain I think?

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28 minutes ago, BuzzzFuzzz said:

 

 

If you like a little Jazz, check out the Live at the Pawnshop series.


First track I’m listening to has the biggest (and probably only) xylophone solo I’ve heard.  
good tunes thanks :)

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Yeah mate...  I love that too.

 

On a different path, and a little more left field...  there is a live DVD by Les Claypool, titled 'Fancy'...  which, also has a xylophone player...  I love that as well.

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Listening to some Jeff Buckley live the other night I forget what the concert was. Sine E or something, sensational.  
 

this Pawnshop series is great so far, good call.  

Edited by Janus77
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2 hours ago, BioBrian said:

 

That's heartening to hear, it's just that these days I'd be worried about the stream of counsellors and lawyers (or worse) knocking on the door claiming abuse, and whatever other trendy accusations they can conjure up. Some aspects of the present are pretty dismal!

Amen to that.

 

I'll try to be polite ;) 

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4 hours ago, BioBrian said:

 

I agree, and this has had surprisingly little discussion, to my knowledge. Since joking about putting them up as surround speakers once, I've often wondered about how to measure them in free air - and the tractor's the only way I can think of, but I'm really not up to that right now, however appealing the concept is.

 

I feel this thread should not be swamped with miscellaneous adventures unrelated to Hugh's project, or at least the Faital 3WC-15 design in particular.

 

See @Sierra's "Another Troels Gravesen's DTQWT Project Build" thread as an example: from memory, I'm guilty as the initial perpetrator of its becoming a general repository for anything DTQWT-related, despite his extraordinary generosity and encouragement.

 

I'd like to see more reporting of Hugh's comparisons and tweaks, as they unfold, all in good time - nails getting short here, Hugh...

Hey Brian - Yes it had become quite the repository for DTQWT information.  

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3 hours ago, Janus77 said:


Thanks Aris.   I’m only using 1 power amp for all drivers though so shouldn’t be any need to worry about gain I think?

 

Apols, I keep thinking you'll be bi-amping; with a single amp of course gain is what it is.

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6 hours ago, aris said:

 

Apols, I keep thinking you'll be bi-amping; with a single amp of course gain is what it is.


:) I appreciate the comments anyway, I hope to buy-amp eventually.  Will have a few questions on how to get this done when the time comes.  Thanks. 

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12 hours ago, Janus77 said:


First track I’m listening to has the biggest (and probably only) xylophone solo I’ve heard.  
good tunes thanks :)

Don''t want to turn this into a suggested music post, but one album I discovered recently is well worth the listen is Ernest Raglan Below the Bass line. 

 

 

 

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Well it aint working so far.. getting a heap of weird feedback sound through the speakers, even with the pre amp volume at zero.  I do get volume when i turn it up though, feedback remains, it doesn't appear to increase with the volume changes.

Edited by Janus77
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Are the XLR adaptors 2nd pin positive (most of the world), or 3rd pin positive (Japan)?

 

Something in your pic tells me you should be able to iron out any problems ☺️.

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Oh boy.  Here come the pretzels. :)

 

Sorry I have no idea which pin is positive, i can't see any markings on the pins or next to them.

Edited by Janus77
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Not even sure that's the problem, but you'd need a multimeter to find out.

 

What are you going to, and from, to need the adaptors? Sorry if you've said already. (And what cables?)

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Thanks for the quick replies Brian, i'll forgive the joke.. (mine are as bad if not worse)

 

I've got an integrated with RCA pre out, so i have an RCA cable, and i've bought some RCA-->XLR adapters which go into the balanced XLR inputs on the power amp.

will post up a photo of the adapters with my phone.

E64CAC97-C29D-4A57-8DCA-B072259E92F0.jpeg

ECB5D907-1E99-455F-B46E-E2FCA557302E.jpeg

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There are folk around who'd say that's all you need. (Nonsense of course - if you spend $1k+, everything will work fine - there's another one to forgive).

 

Red is R channel, White is L channel; don't use the yellow. (Sure you got that right, but useless going on if not).

 

The 2 standards for XLR mean your signal could be getting through the adaptor out of phase, or making an earth loop, or worse. The earthing part is what I would suspect most, in giving you bad noises.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLR_connector

 

Scroll down to "3-pin in audio use" and you'll get the US (and most of the rest of the world; FGS somebody tell Luxman etc the war's over) version of correct wiring - you could check if Pin 1 is connected to the outside of the RCA part, and you should find out from the amp owner what standard the XLR connectors adhere to, so your signals (+ve and -ve, as opposed to ground) will not be out of phase.

 

[Edit: with the adaptor, 2 of the pins have to be joined - need to find out if they did the right ones for your amp].

 

Pretzels may not be enough on their own.

 

Edited by BioBrian
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The amp owner advised:

pin 1 earth

pin 2 live

pin 3 return

 

I can see 1, 2 and 3 printed inside the XRL adapter on the xlr end, if i hold it so the centre pin is at the bottom, it's 1 on the left, 3 (for the bottom centre pin) and 2 on the right.  Not sure how i figure out how this translates to the RCA part?

 

Would earthing my pre amp potentially help?  There is a ground point on the back..

Edited by Janus77
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The wire is connected to pin 2, 1 and 3 appear to be earthed to the adapter chassis.

 

3E70E657-0CCC-47DD-B2D5-9DD5BB707936.jpeg

 

 

 

Edited by Janus77
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Here's another question, trawling for answers to the RCA problem i came across a thread where March audio was talking about someone having twisted the wires incorrectly inside an amplifier.

Was there a certain way i was meant to twist the wires on the crossovers?? i twisted them a little where i could, but some of the crossover-->binding post wires were not twisted at all, is this an issue?  I didn't even know wires needed to be twisted!

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I doubt that your balanced amp likes having one of the signals shorted to its earth.

 

Joining the chassis and signal earths might be causing it, but you're stuck with that if using these adaptors.

 

Maybe @Bill125812 could help you?

 

Twisting wires the wrong way causes an electrical fault? Or is it a physical thing? New to me. Doubt that's causing your present issue.

Edited by BioBrian
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1 hour ago, Janus77 said:

The cables could be the culprit.  They’re old and horrible, and all I could find. 

D1CFCA16-C589-4259-B165-237C05911D50.jpeg

 

 

39 minutes ago, Janus77 said:

The wire is connected to pin 2, 1 and 3 appear to be earthed to the adapter chassis.

 

3E70E657-0CCC-47DD-B2D5-9DD5BB707936.jpeg

 

 

 

 

 

This is probably not so helpful, but it's good to see you put your pants back on for the second photo :)  :)

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Bill125812 said:

@Janus77  Oh wow that’s messy.  How about I just make you up a xlr to rca cables for free 

wow!!


hi Bill, that’s a VERY generous offer thank you.  However I’m only borrowing the amp for a demo for a few days, so the cable would likely only get a few days use before being resigned to a drawer.  Would seem a bit of a waste to make one up for me!

 

thankyou! 

Edited by Janus77
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