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New project - TG’s Faital 3 way classic 15”


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Completion fatigue is a thing. I put my drivers in before painting etc and left them now listening for a few months now. I admire your result / the finish looks great and once you get the wheels or feet on you’re done!

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Woohoo!!   for reference, that’s a 60 inch TV.  It’s a bit difficult to get a perspective on that photo.  The entertainment unit is 2m wide.  

Howdy folks, ordered and paid yesterday for the tweeters, crossover components and various bits and pieces from Jantzen Audio, I went for the more basic kit with fabric tweeters and the lower (but sti

Well, the wood screws provided appear to be a slightly narrower head diameter than the holes on the 15" woofer.  Enough to have a listen, but a couple have just screwed straight through flush on the w

2nd grill frame completed and plugs glued.  Needs 2 days for the liquid nails to set properly.

I did a big clean up of my aunt's place last night, I don't think I'll sit down to properly enjoy until her apartment is returned to the condition I found it in.  The balcony is a huge mess with white specks all over the windows and fly screens from wet sanding the poly, and heaps of muck on the tiles - need to clean it tonight.

In my ongoing indecision, i've decided (again) not to install the wheels until after listening.  HOWEVER, it occurs to me i may need to bring the speakers out from the wall for best positioning when having proper listening sessions, I reckon wheels will make this so much easier.  Wait and see whether i can tell any difference in SQ with the cabinets stand mounted vs wheeled.

 

I highly recommend the fly wire option for the mesh installation, made things very easy, thanks @Sub Sonic

 

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23 hours ago, Janus77 said:

I did a big clean up of my aunt's place last night, I don't think I'll sit down to properly enjoy until her apartment is returned to the condition I found it in.

 

Oh? I thought that 'Tutankhamun's Tomb' look was something you'd worked on - pity to spoil it...

 

Sounds like you're having a rapid recovery from the 'post-faital blues' - most inspiring! Must get on with my tweeter boxes.

 

Still think sliders are a better idea than castors, but 'taste can't be argued', as the master's voice has been noted to say🤪.

 

I had excellent results from one of those 2-wheel trolley things, for moving large speakers, with felt attached to save scratching. Your deep boxes might need a top strap to stop it falling though.

 

Doing a great job mate.

 

Edited by BioBrian
removing overt judgement
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Thanks Brian, slowly getting there.  Friends over for drinks tonight.  Might enlist some assistance to move the speakers home. 

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Woohoo!!

 

for reference, that’s a 60 inch TV.  It’s a bit difficult to get a perspective on that photo.  The entertainment unit is 2m wide.  

8D82493A-C6B7-499D-8DDD-863A0CE50170.jpeg

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Well done @Janus77

A very impressive build and thread, and the colour/finish on the baffles is outstanding.

I'm watching this, and other builds, with much interest...  Planning a nice design and build for myself in a year, when I have developed all my skills more.

Thanks for posting and sharing your journey.

 

Regards.

Ant.

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Well wow, the amount of sound coming out of these speakers is phenomenal, and not just volume but range.  I almost think that I could feel the breath of wind of someone walking past in a recording.  Gave them a solid 5hrs.   
Not exactly sure how to explain how good these things are.

 

Even at low volume late night listening, the full spectrum of sound is there, the low end is incredible.  I understand what Troels meant about “lightness of bass” in his review when talking about high efficiency.  The woofer just puts so much sound out there, but it’s the other end of the spectrum from “doof doof”, it’s warm and it goes very very low.  
stayed up way too late listening.  I think I’ve just had a lesson on what bass is, I’ve been confusing it with sub woofer style performance, but there’s far more to it than that.  
 

listening position still not perfect.  Will have to use the wheels.  The speakers are too high and they are just way too imposing like they’re set up at the moment.  Drop them maybe 12-15cm.   My friend across the hall suggested to push them back closer to the wall to tighten up the sound even more, which will help as my wife was/is a bit shocked by the size.   
 

The sound performance of these speakers is incredible.  Even at low volume it’s detailed and warm.  WOW.  Very happy boy :)

 

Aris I’m keen to get your thoughts on my thoughts ;) like a reaction to reaction post.   Hehe.  
 

time for bed.  

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One of the best DIY's ever. I'm on a lot of car forums too and have seen a lot of car and engine builds. This one is right up there at the top. And we got to hear them.

 

I was going to ask you if they sort of sound like you have a sub in your speakers but it sounds like it is even better based on your description.

 

Congratulations on your build, they look and sound immaculate.

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11 hours ago, Janus77 said:

Woohoo!!

 

for reference, that’s a 60 inch TV.  It’s a bit difficult to get a perspective on that photo.  The entertainment unit is 2m wide.  

8D82493A-C6B7-499D-8DDD-863A0CE50170.jpeg

Looking good mate.

 

They remind me of Spendor S100s :D 

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12 hours ago, Janus77 said:

Aris I’m keen to get your thoughts on my thoughts ;) like a reaction to reaction post.   Hehe. 


You’re spot on! They’re very addictive once you start, I find that listening late into the evening ensues. 

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Sprayed the silver bolts and nuts on the castors black this arvo after disassembling, so the entire castors will be black.  Will give them a couple of days dry time before installing.  
 

grills on too. 
 

 

889F09DA-24D4-4EC4-8C7A-4EA85E0464EF.jpeg

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5 hours ago, Janus77 said:

Sprayed the silver bolts and nuts on the castors black this arvo after disassembling, so the entire castors will be black.  Will give them a couple of days dry time before installing.  
 

grills on too. 
 

 

889F09DA-24D4-4EC4-8C7A-4EA85E0464EF.jpeg

Well done Hugh,

 I have followed your journey for a while and am impressed by how quickly you were able to put these speakers together. They look great and I’m sure sound equally good. The investment in building these looks to be well worth it. Enjoy your well earned break!

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they’re really starting to wake up now.  Crikey.  Hopefully this shows off some stereo. I took my phone cover off, Ray on the left, Betty on the right, the band back centre.  
 

can’t stop listening to music.  Happy chap!

 

my 40w Rotel is killing it, no issues with bass at all.  If a higher power class D tightens the bass up even more then crikey I’ll be in for a treat!  It’s already better than I had hoped for, in that you don’t know what you don’t know..

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10 hours ago, aris said:


You’re spot on! They’re very addictive once you start, I find that listening late into the evening ensues. 


Had planned to play Xbox with some mates, just ended up listening to tunes.   Funny some songs I loved before are being shown to have less revealing recordings and so have become a bit less enjoyable.  Luckily there’s a big flip side to that coin.  

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Hi Hugh, glad to hear you're enjoying the speakers more and more.

 

I tried your Ray/Betty on 2 different systems, and one showed Betty quite a bit more on the right than the other. Nice, but couldn't really get into the late night mood enough to think of this as great demo music!

 

My lack of experience with popular music limits choices to a song I've referenced before:

 

 

 

I wonder how it would sound on your system? It's a very transparent mix - apparently sounds amazing on cheap Chinese earbuds, but it has some challenges.

 

The very warm bass starting at 0:16 is actually a D - only down to 36.7 Hz - would be interesting to hear on your big sensitive speakers. I tried getting Omnimic to give a frequency curve, and it may be that there's stuff going on below that, but it's not clear.

 

But I'd be more interested in hearing how they cope with the strong S sounds, like "sun shines" at 0:45, and "singin' this song" at 1:30. Quite a challenge.

 

The speakers blend in well with the grilles - very smart.

 

The proportions with TV and cabinet look good to me - was going to joke about getting a bigger TV if anyone thinks the speakers are too big, but it just looks right.

 

If you do go down the path of putting a Centre speaker in, under the TV, the tweeters could line up quite well.

 

 

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On 30/01/2021 at 12:32 AM, Janus77 said:

Well wow, the amount of sound coming out of these speakers is phenomenal, and not just volume but range.  I almost think that I could feel the breath of wind of someone walking past in a recording.  Gave them a solid 5hrs.   
Not exactly sure how to explain how good these things are.

 

Even at low volume late night listening, the full spectrum of sound is there, the low end is incredible.  I understand what Troels meant about “lightness of bass” in his review when talking about high efficiency.  The woofer just puts so much sound out there, but it’s the other end of the spectrum from “doof doof”, it’s warm and it goes very very low.  
stayed up way too late listening.  I think I’ve just had a lesson on what bass is, I’ve been confusing it with sub woofer style performance, but there’s far more to it than that.  
 

listening position still not perfect.  Will have to use the wheels.  The speakers are too high and they are just way too imposing like they’re set up at the moment.  Drop them maybe 12-15cm.   My friend across the hall suggested to push them back closer to the wall to tighten up the sound even more, which will help as my wife was/is a bit shocked by the size.   
 

The sound performance of these speakers is incredible.  Even at low volume it’s detailed and warm.  WOW.  Very happy boy :)

 

Aris I’m keen to get your thoughts on my thoughts ;) like a reaction to reaction post.   Hehe.  
 

time for bed.  


There is definitely something about woofers with a large cone area, the bass is so effortless 🙂

 

Thanks for posting your build, it has been very interesting watching it progress.

 

Very well done!

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Brian listening to that track on tidal through my Sony XM3's, there's quite a bit going on down low.  You can feel him tapping the guitar or maybe tapping his foot.

Will be fun to listen to it at home.  The S sounds aren't particularly standing out with the headphones.

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2 minutes ago, Janus77 said:

15B56225-C4FC-4ED7-B353-9F136E2D9E6A.jpeg

Tough job for 1 man, managed to massage them down off the stands.  Very heavy.  

I know a good physio - you may need him after that. 

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Slightly less imposing.  See how they sound when both on wheels.  
 

Brian, listening to “long after you’re gone” now.  The iPhone doesn’t really capture it well enough.  Sounds good but I’m not quite sure what you mean about the S sounds?  There’s some deep orchestra style string instrument underpinning a lot of it.  Good bass pressure, strings of the guitar are pretty crazy. You can easily differentiate picking and strumming.

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wheels vs stand.jpg

Be glad to put wheels on the 2nd speaker tonight so i can play around with placement.  Listening with 1 up and 1 down i got more treble from the higher speaker interestingly (my ears are more in line with the lower tweeter/mid vs the woofer on the higher one..  or maybe i was just sitting a little to the right.

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Could be that you're getting more treble from the right channel because it's more toed in. (From the pic with your knee in).

 

Did you have a choice of attenuation resistors for the tweeters in the crossover kit?

 

Must be funny watching somebody try to stand speakers up after fitting castors 🙂.

 

Love seeing the tools lying ready in a listening session. That makes me feel more at home.

 

10 hours ago, Janus77 said:

Brian, listening to “long after you’re gone” now.  The iPhone doesn’t really capture it well enough.  Sounds good but I’m not quite sure what you mean about the S sounds?  There’s some deep orchestra style string instrument underpinning a lot of it.  Good bass pressure, strings of the guitar are pretty crazy. You can easily differentiate picking and strumming.

 

For apples to apples, we'd have to be sure to be listening to the same (B & W demo YouTube) recording. I found another one - same guy, same song, but different sounding recording, through a Google search). Also, I'm not sure how your signal is getting to your amp - YouTube on phone, to DAC in receiver?).

 

Whatever, in "that song", there are only 2 upper guitars, one voice, and one bass guitar. No orchestra, just a lot of sustain on the bass. The twangy guitar and voice have what I would call a high dynamic range. Different DACs, etc, might bring out different qualities, so the exercise might be a bit futile. I expected your speakers would enjoy that smooth, room-filling bass, if you are getting it from source OK.

 

 

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I've got PC --> DAC --> Amp.  I found a version on Tidal however i'll try the link you posted instead.

 

Maybe it's not orchestra strings then, just the bass guitar with a lot of sustain, it's deep.

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The speakers are still improving.  I’m very happy.   Today I purchased an ifi dac which does mqa.  I figured my old dac is a cheapy and about 7 years old.  So another cheapy should be a decent step up.  Well it is a big step up.  Nick cave and the bad seeds Into my arms, it sounds like he’s in the room.  Sensational.  Listening to some live Jeff Buckley tracks too, more and more there’s a sense of the environment the recording was made in, it’s really enjoyable. 

the bass is phenomenal.  

 

woohoo

 

 

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If you go onto Spotify and pull up the "this  is sara k " playlist and spend a couple of hours being intoxicated you will likely find some stuff that plays so low it will just suit those speakers so well. I need a sub to make it work but you wont

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1 hour ago, aris said:

So, the 3 Sad Bastards (of which I am one) have just published a podcast episode talking about how the 3WC-15 actually sound :)

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/3-sad-bastards/id1507530486

 

S02E08 - But Do DIY Loudspeakers Actually Sound Good?

 

(Warning, 3SB podcast has some explicit language).

 

 

 

Gold, starts off with "hey fckers".

 

Listening now, "after you wired them in phase", hah - "these are crap"

 

So for anyone looking at building these, you've got a price range depending on drivers and crossover components of roughly $4500 (if you have free access to a workshop), to $6500.  For me, i went with the cheapest package, and had to pay for workshop access on top.  The great thing is i can upgrade the tweeters and crossover components at a later date if i chose to. 

What I've realized is you need really high end amplification and source to justify the higher spec model, my 3wc's are by far the most revealing part of my stereo system now, I need significant improvements in source and amplification before any crossover or driver upgrade would have value, i'm no where near getting the most out of these speakers.

Hopefully i get the opportunity to plug them into a TT and some better amplification soon to see what they're capable of.  The sky's the limit.

 

That was interesting Aris, thanks for posting.  

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23 hours ago, aris said:

So, the 3 Sad Bastards (of which I am one) have just published a podcast episode talking about how the 3WC-15 actually sound :)

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/3-sad-bastards/id1507530486

 

S02E08 - But Do DIY Loudspeakers Actually Sound Good?

 

(Warning, 3SB podcast has some explicit language).

 

 

 

Have been looking forward to this podcast - really enjoyed it! More out of curiosity, have the 3SB ever considered the odd episode being a longer format discussion on some of the topics already covered during the season? Only asking because there are some episodes where you get the sense one or all of you are nearly about to explore tangents/some points deeper (possibly from prior discussions you have had) but stop short of that. There is a great chemistry with how you interact on the podcasts, so it would probably be a great 1hr session.

 

On 06/02/2021 at 4:08 PM, Janus77 said:

3142F101-35D7-4E5B-9F3B-3873CCAB6599.jpeg

Janus, really enjoyed following this over the past few months. Congrats on the build! Looks great and has been the inspiration for a similar build. 

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On 13/02/2021 at 12:56 PM, 2MSC3 said:

 

Have been looking forward to this podcast - really enjoyed it! More out of curiosity, have the 3SB ever considered the odd episode being a longer format discussion on some of the topics already covered during the season? Only asking because there are some episodes where you get the sense one or all of you are nearly about to explore tangents/some points deeper (possibly from prior discussions you have had) but stop short of that. There is a great chemistry with how you interact on the podcasts, so it would probably be a great 1hr session.

 

Thank you - we have one more episode planned for S02, and then starting to look at what S03 looks like. I think your idea of longer and deeper episodes makes sense - we’re thinking 6 episodes of 40m rather that 20m. 
 

I won’t say what Season 3 is going to be yet - we have some discussion still but longer episodes where we go deeper would seem to make sense. 
 

Aris

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On 14/02/2021 at 8:09 PM, aris said:

 

Thank you - we have one more episode planned for S02, and then starting to look at what S03 looks like. I think your idea of longer and deeper episodes makes sense - we’re thinking 6 episodes of 40m rather that 20m. 
 

I won’t say what Season 3 is going to be yet - we have some discussion still but longer episodes where we go deeper would seem to make sense. 
 

Aris

It would be great to get a few different TG speaker kits together and listen to the difference. Maybe that could be episode 3.

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Be very cool to listen to the difference between Aris' and mine, being the top and the bottom of the range of tweeter and crossover options.

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23 hours ago, Janus77 said:

Be very cool to listen to the difference between Aris' and mine, being the top and the bottom of the range of tweeter and crossover options.

 

True would probably require a good front end to really test the difference. 

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6 minutes ago, camross said:

would probably require a good front end

 

Did I hear 'good front end loader'?

 

659713712_3245Delivery1200x900.jpg.41f0666cae00cac1d96461d1816dfaa3.jpg

 

I wish we could get my DTQWT-12s into the GTG. Might be a long drive though.

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Hah, how far did you have to transport the speaker with your tractor Brian?

Downside of building large speakers is, unless you live down the road it's very unlikely to get them all together for side by side comparisons.

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Only 200 m, but that was the easy bit!

 

Funny you should ask, 'coz that turned up a pic of the felt-padded trolley thing I mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

Had to build a ramp up the house steps to get it in, but 80 kg moved quite easily on the right slope.

 

1710021207_DTonsideathousewithtrolley.jpg.9d839383bcffeaf83df094df3ad89de6.jpg

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