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New project - TG’s Faital 3 way classic 15”


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Ah, got waylaid with kids today, still have to glue the front on.  Just a teaser.  Will get it done after kids go to sleep.  Then tomorrow AM I’ll glue in the tweeter box.  
hopefully listening to some high quality mono by tomorrow night.  

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Woohoo!!   for reference, that’s a 60 inch TV.  It’s a bit difficult to get a perspective on that photo.  The entertainment unit is 2m wide.  

Howdy folks, ordered and paid yesterday for the tweeters, crossover components and various bits and pieces from Jantzen Audio, I went for the more basic kit with fabric tweeters and the lower (but sti

Well, the wood screws provided appear to be a slightly narrower head diameter than the holes on the 15" woofer.  Enough to have a listen, but a couple have just screwed straight through flush on the w

The thing is so heavy now, I had to lift it from upright on the floor to back down on the work horses.   Barely managed it, I did manage the scrape/rip the vinyl on the rear edge though.  Bit annoying but at least it’s at the back, I was able to push it back into place so you can barely tell.  

tweeter box and drivers tomorrow.  Hopefully post up a vid of some music coming out of it.  

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Well, the wood screws provided appear to be a slightly narrower head diameter than the holes on the 15" woofer.  Enough to have a listen, but a couple have just screwed straight through flush on the wood by the looks of it.  Will need to get something slightly wider.

 

Tweeter has a cast aluminium plate to screw it onto the baffle.  The aluminium is quite weak, i screwed down bit by bit with each screw so they stayed even and i still got some small cracks in the aluminium around the screws when tightening.  Anyone thinking of building using this tweeter be very careful when screwing in.

 

Well people, first speaker ready to listen to!  I bit off way more than i could chew, but have managed to come out the other side relatively unscathed.

 

 

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Given i had no woodworking experience, quite pleased with my efforts!

Now to plug it in, unfortunately much work to do so that will have to wait until later this evening.

 

Edited by Janus77
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Looks great, Hugh. The red works really well, and I love the wavy effect.

 

I hope you're using a good old analogue screwdriver? I've had this tweeter in and out a few times, and never had a cracking issue. Did you get that rebate nice and flat?

 

I think we talked about 12ga screws early on in the thread? Bunnos would save the day again, re the woofer screws. You now have good depth to receive appropriate length, too. 10ga might be enough, if 50mm long, but 12ga just feels right, for a 15" driver.

 

Buy 2 lots, so you can spray some black epoxy on the spare set, and when fully hard, put them in without interrupting the play-in later 🙂.

 

Please look after that spine of yours!

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Thanks Brian, sitting here at lunch listening.   For some reason I keep turning the volume up.  
listening to a range of recordings.  No decent dac just pc headphone to amp, sounds pretty darn good.  What will 2 of them sound like!! 
my goodness, there’s some motivation to finish the second, I think I just got my second wind.  
Wow.  
French horns in Michel Goddard’s Comme in beffroi.  my god!

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Good one, it's happening!

 

Is that why they made French Horns only blow out one side - for people in your situation?

 

Come on, stop indulging and get your skates on...

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Kendrick Lamar - "Loyalty" goes all the way down.  

 

Better get cracking on no.2.

 

1800w dual mono class D amp sitting here waiting for some rca --> xlr cables to test out.  I'm told the 400w is more of a "recommended" maximum, just avoid clipping and should be all good... haha.  

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1 hour ago, Janus77 said:

You were right about the stands.  They’ll need to be higher off the ground.  

If you need any stands made I would highly recommend @Grizzlyhe made mine for my LS5/9s and made some for @rossb . First rate workmanship and a very reasonable price as well. Not to mention keeping the work in the SNA community. 
 

you should also make sure you leave enough of a gap to get your hands under the bottom of the speakers for lifting. 

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1 hour ago, Janus77 said:

You were right about the stands.  They’ll need to be higher off the ground.  

Like the square stands you see under a lot of spendor. I found set on here but couldn't work out how to link them

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25 minutes ago, Rob Wright said:

Like the square stands you see under a lot of spendor. I found set on here but couldn't work out how to link them

These are the stands Anthony made for me. The big speakers will want some large steel bars compared to my thin/ light speakers. 

image.jpg

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And starting again..


The journey is great and all, but I feel like my internal GPS gave me a bum steer on this one.  We’ve driven Sydney to Adelaide via Darwin, and now probably return via Perth. 
 

Aiming to finish the second by Friday night.  Away Saturday and Sunday.  


 

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Note that Troels is quite specific, feet should be 5cm for the 3WC-15. 
 

That’s how I have mine and they sound pretty darn good that way. 

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17 minutes ago, aris said:

Note that Troels is quite specific, feet should be 5cm for the 3WC-15. 
 

That’s how I have mine and they sound pretty darn good that way. 


I’d messaged him to ask if 9cm castors would be ok and he said they’d be fine.  My couch is too high I think, current speakers the tweeter’s positioned about 10-15cm higher than 3wc due to its mid mounting position on the baffle.  You really want the tweeter at ear level right?   
I must say compared to my paradigm 9se, the sound is way way more balanced off axis.  If I’m not in the sweet spot with them I lose a lot of high frequency sound.  With this new speaker I can move well off axis and it still sounds great.  
 

Anyway will play around and see how they sound best.  

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Nod, in my listening position ear height is the same as Troels so that’s why it works. 

Before finalising on the feet, I did use a couple of 24mm offcuts as feet :)

 

Aris 

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Just now, aris said:

Nod, in my listening position ear height is the same as Troels so that’s why it works. 

Before finalising on the feet, I did use a couple of 24mm offcuts as feet :)

 

Aris 

Any progress is on deciding how to finish them?

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13 hours ago, Janus77 said:

 You really want the tweeter at ear level right?

 

That's the normal case, but with this MTW configuration, Troels said (see 12" version write-up) to align your head with the mid driver. This is because he wants the distance to the tweeter to be greater than that to the mid, for correct Z-offset.

 

I checked his maths - he sits at 950 mm ear height, so needs 380 mm stands, but the 12" version is a fair bit shorter.

 

The 15" version, using the same calcs, would need 125 mm stands, but only at the same listening distance (I couldn't find mention of it in his 15" version notes). Some trials will need to be done with tilting or raising the speakers to get the sweet spot about right, with no sensation of 'lobing'.

 

Due to baffle step loss, with a 450 mm wide speaker, there will be up to 6 dB volume spilled around the sides at all frequencies below about 255 Hz (and below a higher frequency above the mid-driver, which would have been dealt with in crossover design). Some of this loss could be prevented by having a solid face to any stands or legs, connecting the baffles to the floor. Instead of haemorrhaging bass under where only vacuum cleaners should dare to venture, it would be directed straight into the room. Don't ask me how the ports would come into this - obviously a very complex scenario down there.

 

Easy enough to screw a board onto RHS, if you went to that trouble. (Thin RHS is tricky to weld, and might be quite resonant, requiring sand-filling, etc).

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12 minutes ago, BioBrian said:

 

Easy enough to screw a board onto RHS, if you went to that trouble. (Thin RHS is tricky to weld, and might be quite resonant, requiring sand-filling, etc).

Would solid steel solve the resonance issue?

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1 minute ago, PKay said:

Would solid steel solve the resonance issue?

 

Now see here, this is getting a little out of control.

Let's all just calm down a bit.

 

End up with suggestions i drill directly into the concrete slab under the carpet.

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4 minutes ago, PKay said:

Would solid steel solve the resonance issue?

 

It's not a yes-or-no answer, unfortunately. I've recently put off building hifi racks, for want of an answer to this. If you use a high-mass material it's going to take a lot more energy to make it resonate, but if it does, it won't want to stop.

 

CLD is the answer - different materials all held together to they can't resonate in sympathy, each damping the other. Filling RHS or tube with lead shot or sand is quite popular, but breaking up any surfaces would help too. Like a metal shelf would be inviting trouble, but if you welded on some random lumps, or designed legs and brackets into it to prevent vibration, it might be excellent. I've seen commercial wood shelves with fancy patterns routed in the surface - this would do the same by interrupting the tension/compression extremes at the outside surfaces.

 

I can understand why bitumen pads work so well in speaker boxes, and flexy glue fixing felt could help with the same.

 

15 minutes ago, Janus77 said:

drill directly into the concrete slab

 

Hugh, I was only suggesting filling the gap. Any old lump of wood lying on the floor would do, but fixing a board to your stand or legs might be tidier. Troels uses wood for stands, so this would be an easy thing to try. After you get them singing. If your bliss can be interrupted long enough 🙂.

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I can see how people end up not finishing speakers.  Once they're operational it's very hard to motivate yourself to do further work.

Grill frames will be my last job for this project before i take them upstairs to our living room.  I MUST do this before plugging them in again, if i start listening i'm unlikely to even get them home for a good while.

 

If i need stands, it's likely to be cinder blocks covered in material until i get my mojo back to go to the workshop again.  Or even the stands for my Pardigm's would work at a pinch i guess though they're a smaller footprint so not a great option with young kids around.

 

Back to the build:

Just sanded back the front baffle ready for wipe on polyurethane.

Will try and sand the cabinet before my lunch break ends.  Second cabinet is a great fit already for baffles etc, nothing much needing to be fine tuned.  Hopefully goes quickly.

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6 minutes ago, BioBrian said:

 

It's not a yes-or-no answer, unfortunately. I've recently put off building hifi racks, for want of an answer to this. If you use a high-mass material it's going to take a lot more energy to make it resonate, but if it does, it won't want to stop.

I used some Herbies Fat Dots between my speakers and stands to isolate them.

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21 minutes ago, Janus77 said:

I can see how people end up not finishing speakers.  Once they're operational it's very hard to motivate yourself to do further work.

 

Guilty as charged!

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Ok, purchased some 12ga screws to put the woofer in.  The supports are about 38mm thick, they only had 30 or 40mm screws so i opted for the 30mm.  They're large enough to hold the woofer firmly for sure.

I've applied a coat of epoxy spray, will do another tomorrow.

If the paint chips as i'm installing them, i'll just paint a bit on with a small brush.

 

Now, I've drilled the holes for the woofer screws with a 2.5mm bit which i've already screwed 8g screws into, will this be enough for me to screw the 12g screws into, or will i risk splitting the wood?  There's roughly 10mm of wood between the screw hole and the edge of the driver circular cutout.

 

Appreciate any advice on this, thanks.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Janus77 said:

Now, I've drilled the holes for the woofer screws with a 2.5mm bit which i've already screwed 8g screws into, will this be enough for me to screw the 12g screws into, or will i risk splitting the wood?  There's roughly 10mm of wood between the screw hole and the edge of the driver circular cutout.

 

Appreciate any advice on this, thanks.

 

Just tried it out. 4mm is too tight.

 

4.5mm is just right for 12ga.

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Ok so I need to drill the holes out slightly.  
 

thanks Brian.  My brain isn’t working, I could have done that test myself.  
 

much appreciated.  

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No worries. Quicker result for us, I mean you...

 

Just found my screws and epoxy, so can get something finished here!

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19 hours ago, Janus77 said:

Any progress is on deciding how to finish them?


I’m thinking paint at this stage :)

 

Aris

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10 minutes ago, aris said:


I’m thinking paint at this stage :)

 

Aris


The thought of taking the drivers out and taping them all up to spray... I understand your tardiness.  It’s a balance between spouse frustration and enjoying them as they are.  The trouble with hooking them up before they’re finished.. 

 

what colour, white like you originally planned?

 

i think the original colour scheme you planned looked amazing.  

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Planning to install felt in 2nd speaker tonight.  Hopefully we stop at half a bottle of red or it may not happen.  I had to bring my dac and rca back to our place for my wife to listen to music so I can’t even listen to the completed speaker at this stage.  Good motivation to get them finished.  

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1 hour ago, Janus77 said:

Planning to install felt in 2nd speaker tonight.  Hopefully we stop at half a bottle of red or it may not happen.  I had to bring my dac and rca back to our place for my wife to listen to music so I can’t even listen to the completed speaker at this stage.  Good motivation to get them finished.  

I have made plenty of, erm, “design improvements” because of a bottle of red!

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2 hours ago, Janus77 said:


The thought of taking the drivers out and taping them all up to spray... I understand your tardiness.  It’s a balance between spouse frustration and enjoying them as they are.  The trouble with hooking them up before they’re finished.. 

 

what colour, white like you originally planned?

 

i think the original colour scheme you planned looked amazing.  

You only have to check out my own build to see I spent 4 months listening to them unfinished - taking out the drivers to paint takes a good deal of motivation (some might say half a bottle of it...) 🥳

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I’m learning!


the second speaker is going much faster than the first.  I know what to do (famous last words before I *** up..)

 

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Excellent progress tonight, the first time I’ve done more than I’d planned!

 

Felt installed, and wires for drivers soldered to crossovers.

 

1 more coat of black for the rear baffle tomorrow then a few coats of poly.  Still need to clean the front baffle up a little.   Need to test fit with some vinyl cutouts.  Would be a disaster to rip the vinyl as I’m trying to place a baffle in covered in glue.

 

thinking I might be listening in stereo by Friday evening if I’m lucky.  

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