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New project - TG’s Faital 3 way classic 15”


Janus77

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1 hour ago, aris said:

So, the 3 Sad Bastards (of which I am one) have just published a podcast episode talking about how the 3WC-15 actually sound :)

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/3-sad-bastards/id1507530486

 

S02E08 - But Do DIY Loudspeakers Actually Sound Good?

 

(Warning, 3SB podcast has some explicit language).

 

 

 

Gold, starts off with "hey fckers".

 

Listening now, "after you wired them in phase", hah - "these are crap"

 

So for anyone looking at building these, you've got a price range depending on drivers and crossover components of roughly $4500 (if you have free access to a workshop), to $6500.  For me, i went with the cheapest package, and had to pay for workshop access on top.  The great thing is i can upgrade the tweeters and crossover components at a later date if i chose to. 

What I've realized is you need really high end amplification and source to justify the higher spec model, my 3wc's are by far the most revealing part of my stereo system now, I need significant improvements in source and amplification before any crossover or driver upgrade would have value, i'm no where near getting the most out of these speakers.

Hopefully i get the opportunity to plug them into a TT and some better amplification soon to see what they're capable of.  The sky's the limit.

 

That was interesting Aris, thanks for posting.  

Edited by Janus77
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23 hours ago, aris said:

So, the 3 Sad Bastards (of which I am one) have just published a podcast episode talking about how the 3WC-15 actually sound :)

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/3-sad-bastards/id1507530486

 

S02E08 - But Do DIY Loudspeakers Actually Sound Good?

 

(Warning, 3SB podcast has some explicit language).

 

 

 

Have been looking forward to this podcast - really enjoyed it! More out of curiosity, have the 3SB ever considered the odd episode being a longer format discussion on some of the topics already covered during the season? Only asking because there are some episodes where you get the sense one or all of you are nearly about to explore tangents/some points deeper (possibly from prior discussions you have had) but stop short of that. There is a great chemistry with how you interact on the podcasts, so it would probably be a great 1hr session.

 

On 06/02/2021 at 4:08 PM, Janus77 said:

3142F101-35D7-4E5B-9F3B-3873CCAB6599.jpeg

Janus, really enjoyed following this over the past few months. Congrats on the build! Looks great and has been the inspiration for a similar build. 

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On 13/02/2021 at 12:56 PM, 2MSC3 said:

 

Have been looking forward to this podcast - really enjoyed it! More out of curiosity, have the 3SB ever considered the odd episode being a longer format discussion on some of the topics already covered during the season? Only asking because there are some episodes where you get the sense one or all of you are nearly about to explore tangents/some points deeper (possibly from prior discussions you have had) but stop short of that. There is a great chemistry with how you interact on the podcasts, so it would probably be a great 1hr session.

 

Thank you - we have one more episode planned for S02, and then starting to look at what S03 looks like. I think your idea of longer and deeper episodes makes sense - we’re thinking 6 episodes of 40m rather that 20m. 
 

I won’t say what Season 3 is going to be yet - we have some discussion still but longer episodes where we go deeper would seem to make sense. 
 

Aris

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On 14/02/2021 at 8:09 PM, aris said:

 

Thank you - we have one more episode planned for S02, and then starting to look at what S03 looks like. I think your idea of longer and deeper episodes makes sense - we’re thinking 6 episodes of 40m rather that 20m. 
 

I won’t say what Season 3 is going to be yet - we have some discussion still but longer episodes where we go deeper would seem to make sense. 
 

Aris

It would be great to get a few different TG speaker kits together and listen to the difference. Maybe that could be episode 3.

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23 hours ago, Janus77 said:

Be very cool to listen to the difference between Aris' and mine, being the top and the bottom of the range of tweeter and crossover options.

 

True would probably require a good front end to really test the difference. 

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Hah, how far did you have to transport the speaker with your tractor Brian?

Downside of building large speakers is, unless you live down the road it's very unlikely to get them all together for side by side comparisons.

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Only 200 m, but that was the easy bit!

 

Funny you should ask, 'coz that turned up a pic of the felt-padded trolley thing I mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

Had to build a ramp up the house steps to get it in, but 80 kg moved quite easily on the right slope.

 

1710021207_DTonsideathousewithtrolley.jpg.9d839383bcffeaf83df094df3ad89de6.jpg

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2 minutes ago, BioBrian said:

Only 200 m, but that was the easy bit!

 

Funny you should ask, 'coz that turned up a pic of the felt-padded trolley thing I mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

Had to build a ramp up the house steps to get it in, but 80 kg moved quite easily on the right slope.

 

1710021207_DTonsideathousewithtrolley.jpg.9d839383bcffeaf83df094df3ad89de6.jpg

Sack Trolleys are perfect for moving speakers around. My last 2 pairs are both well over 50 Kg and have managed to move them around by myself with a trolley and Van.

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2 minutes ago, Janus77 said:

time frame from commencement to completion? 

 

 212 hours, over 2 1/2 months, plus odd days later on, fitting fly-wire bottoms to keep out any mud-wasps and rodents, upgrade XO, make slotted rear covers, etc.

 

So, total 236 hours, according to my notes.

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I sort of have an agreement with myself, that I'll improve the workshop some more, before taking on the next project. It's saved a lot of time and stress over the period, eg now I have a very solid table for entertaining at GTGs (as well as flat, for laminating etc haha). So each speaker build gets easier, more efficient, in theory. I just like making life difficult (eg 2 x 350 litre subs for very little obvious gain).

 

But nothing can compare with the mega-uber-bench you had! And a table saw and table router would solve a lot of problems.

 

In allowing myself a few cool tools, I think I'm making up for a bit of tough love from my father. If we wanted a billy-cart, there was a pile of offcuts over there, a hammer, panel saw, tin of salvaged nails to straighten (not kidding - try telling kids to do that today), and if you get far enough, we'll see about some old ball-bearings, or attack the old pram for wheels. Not that different from the first speakers I built, several years later.

 

1 hour ago, Janus77 said:

They're very nice workmanship.

 

Thank you - it's been a slow progression, as above. There's a bit of satisfaction in the difference.

 

So I can certainly appreciate the extraordinary achievement you've made, in such a short time.

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17 hours ago, BioBrian said:

If we wanted a billy-cart, there was a pile of offcuts over there, a hammer, panel saw, tin of salvaged nails to straighten (not kidding - try telling kids to do that today)

No... that's exactly what I'm telling my kids.   ??

 

In a way which doesn't give them too much of a scarcity complex, of course.....  but "figuring things out", and "solving problems" are good life skills (understatement) .... and few cuts from rusty nails won't hurt one bit.

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On 17/02/2021 at 2:46 PM, BioBrian said:

 

Did I hear 'good front end loader'?

 

659713712_3245Delivery1200x900.jpg.41f0666cae00cac1d96461d1816dfaa3.jpg

 

I wish we could get my DTQWT-12s into the GTG. Might be a long drive though.

Hey Brian,

Your property is looking rather lush for this time of year.

The woodwork looks even better against the green backdrop of mother nature.

Looking to get a small tractor of my own. Any suggestions? (2 acres of regular slashing and minor works required)

 

Love your work Janus77. Congrats!  Hope you get many years of enjoyment from them.

 

 

PS: I still maintain that the Troels' DTQWT's were designed upside down.

Edited by Auracle
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On 21/02/2021 at 10:34 PM, Auracle said:

Your property is looking rather lush for this time of year.

The woodwork looks even better against the green backdrop of mother nature.

 

Hi Sam, the pic is actually from when I'd just finished the DTQWT-12s in Feb 2013, but yes, nice and lush as usual down here, especially the blackberries. The tree ferns could be hundreds of years old; they look the same at any time.

 

Better not use Hugh's space for other matters though - will PM.

 

On 21/02/2021 at 10:34 PM, Auracle said:

PS: I still maintain that the Troels' DTQWT's were designed upside down.

 

A hazard of him living on the wrong side of the planet? Mine could be inverted, as opposed to the smaller version; the difference I see would be that the horn, opening upwards, would affect bass presentation to the room - less room gain? - is this what you had in mind?

 

In any case, I wouldn't want non-auds to think they were just an 'art' rubbish bin or spittoon...

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3 hours ago, BioBrian said:

A hazard of him living on the wrong side of the planet? Mine could be inverted, as opposed to the smaller version; the difference I see would be that the horn, opening upwards, would affect bass presentation to the room - less room gain? - is this what you had in mind?

 

The floor is a significant part of the horns mouth area (it's one "wall" of the mouth/exit).   Without it the mouth area would ne much much much larger.

 

3 hours ago, BioBrian said:

or spittoon...

LOL

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3 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

The floor is a significant part of the horns mouth area (it's one "wall" of the mouth/exit).   Without it the mouth area would ne much much much larger.

 

I agree, and this has had surprisingly little discussion, to my knowledge. Since joking about putting them up as surround speakers once, I've often wondered about how to measure them in free air - and the tractor's the only way I can think of, but I'm really not up to that right now, however appealing the concept is.

 

I feel this thread should not be swamped with miscellaneous adventures unrelated to Hugh's project, or at least the Faital 3WC-15 design in particular.

 

See @Sierra's "Another Troels Gravesen's DTQWT Project Build" thread as an example: from memory, I'm guilty as the initial perpetrator of its becoming a general repository for anything DTQWT-related, despite his extraordinary generosity and encouragement.

 

I'd like to see more reporting of Hugh's comparisons and tweaks, as they unfold, all in good time - nails getting short here, Hugh...

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On 18/02/2021 at 10:17 AM, davewantsmoore said:
On 17/02/2021 at 4:26 PM, BioBrian said:

If we wanted a billy-cart, there was a pile of offcuts over there, a hammer, panel saw, tin of salvaged nails to straighten (not kidding - try telling kids to do that today)

No... that's exactly what I'm telling my kids.   ??

 

In a way which doesn't give them too much of a scarcity complex, of course.....  but "figuring things out", and "solving problems" are good life skills (understatement) .... and few cuts from rusty nails won't hurt one bit.

 

That's heartening to hear, it's just that these days I'd be worried about the stream of counsellors and lawyers (or worse) knocking on the door claiming abuse, and whatever other trendy accusations they can conjure up. Some aspects of the present are pretty dismal!

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12 minutes ago, BioBrian said:

Some aspects of the present are pretty dismal!

Myself, and I think many other members here, consider ourselves fortunate to be the last humans ( in the West, at least ), who grew up without computers.

Edited by BuzzzFuzzz
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Haha, all good please continue the chat.
 

I’m in love with the speakers, with a good track they fill the room with music more than I could have hoped.   
 

am waiting on some rca—>xlr adapters to arrive later this week hopefully so I can try out my friend’s 1800w power amp.  Should be fun.  
 

I think the speakers are still breaking in, every time I sit down to listen I’m astonished.  More and more I’m hunting for live recordings, seems there’s nothing better than a really good live recording for me, lots of nuances in the crowd participation etc.  

And the bass, my gosh!   It’s when the guitarist taps his hand on the acoustic guitar, or a breath in the microphone, doesn’t even have to be music, the woofers do something...

 

will report back when I’ve tried this class d power amp.  Hopefully can get downstairs to another guy’s place and try on his MF system with TT at some point too.  

 

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